When I see events in larger prospective, I find a strange similarity between environment before WW-2 and now. Some countries (after ww-1) decides to crush and punish other countries...eventually resulting into revolt from a EU country after few years Doesn't it looks similar today...some western countries are trying to push other countries bit too hard making a ground for next war? I am scared about future
Well Jijo, I will say if there is a WW III, it will be a very deadly war. However the odds of that happening aren't too high now unless Korea got involved, which they haven't yet. China would be a huge threat and they would obviouisly back Korea I would think. The USA is still the number one super power, but our allies are slipping away so any action that would happen that would trigger WW III would naturally be a Nucleur War, which would be bad for all of us! Let's just hope we can settle everything over in Iraq, which doesn't look like a great possibility any time soon.
Considering the democrats in the United States have begun every war save for both iraq conflicts in the past 150 years of US History, I'd say you have a legitimate fear.
A lot of people are. Just fight the good fight and all will be well. MrMOJO: Generally I like your posts, but democrats didn't "begin" every war, rather, got involved in them. But you gotta admit, for good reason (in most cases).
well, i didn't mean ti imply they "start" every war, moreso that they "begin" them from the American perspective. hopefully thats clearer as to my meaning
From my perspective, there seems to be an issue with clarity, or standing by one's posts: . Last 150 years of U.S. History. 1856-2006. Every conflict, save Gulf I, II a Democrat-started conflict? Civil War Indian Wars Spanish American War Philippine-American War Latin American Conflicts - "Banana Wars" Boxer Rebellion WWI WWII Korean War Vietnam War Gulf War Somalia Yugoslavia Afghanistan Iraq Would you care to restate?
Your such a technical guy...lol. I'm assuming his context is rather limited. Although I can't say I know the start of a lot of those wars.
Mojo and I have traded some semantics on a couple of threads now - as "Considering the democrats in the United States have begun every war..." is an exceedingly strong statement of fact, I think it is important to know what we are talking about. I can't let a statement such as this go unanswered, since many of the above wars were started under Republican leadership and Mojo's statement is flatly, historically, untrue. Personally, assigning a "warmongering" mentality to either party is ludicrous, in my view. Conditions shape all regimes, and regimes shape history; and I believe it is important to place things in historical context.
I believe there already has been a world war going on for quite a while. The nature of it though is so subtle and gradual it's hard to say exactly where and when it actually began or could end. Its a war like no other we have ever seen. It doesn't involve any particular country but it does involve differing ideologies. It basically Global Jihad and every country in the world is dealing with it. Those who have submitted (Islam means submission) in Africa, middle, Asia and Europe you hear less about. France, Morrocco, Italy, Madrid, UK, Moscow, Israel the U.S. etc etc have all been attacked in the world war. On 911 the global Jihad came to America. This was nothing new to much of the world. 911 is easily compared to Pearl Harbor. And the further parallels to Nazism in Europe leading up to WW2 are amazingly similar. This is not to say the U.S. or any other country is blameless in every situation. But with few exceptions every conflict in the world for quite a while involves Islamic radicals against someone else. Yes its WW3 but no one even noticed until the U.S. was attacked and started fighting back and it has already lasted longer than WW2.
Putting the obvious aside, I agree. Just an observation, though. I've read many comments he's made, and you contest whether the context is this or that...which it may or may not be, but the substance of it unadressed. I'm sure you have your own way of trying to view things, and we don't all think or address things in the same matter. Let me give you a tiny example of what I'm talking about. You: Again, I ask - assuming your costs of illegal immigration, I'll repeat my above question: "But I thought you said this was not about race, but illegal immigration?[/B"' I'm fairly certain I can grasp anything you want to toss my way, Mojo. Just sincerely seeking to discern the root of your discontent. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Now me, I would approach that a bit differently. It's not better perse, just different. Firstly I'd say my opinion, that I don't think it's just a 'White thing', and then I would agree or disagree on his list. In which case I would generally agree. The difference is I'm try to give my opinion on everything he said; but I see your intentions are different, in that you wish to understand his discontent. That's a rather complicated thing, don't you think? I could discuss with you for hours and still not understand your emotional reasons for your positions. Hell, it takes me years to find out why people make their decisions, and even then it's just a mild guess, really. That's why I try not to find the mental content behind things. That's too complicated, atleast for the internet. Anyways, it's just an observation of a pattern I tend to see in your discussions.
Given that WW3 has not happened yet then yes we are going towards WW3, in the same sense as we are going towards xmas 2006. Everybody have a bloody happy new year
Civil War= Democrats defying Lincoln over slavery Indian Wars=Jackson, Democrat. Republican opponents are quoted here of Jackson as saying: "One Republican leader Albert Gallatin saw Jackson as "an honest man and the idol of the worshippers of military glory, but from incapacity, military habits, and habitual disregard of laws and constitutional provisions, altogether unfit for the office." [3] Thomas Jefferson "had no great love for Jackson," says Remini; Daniel Webster wrote that Jefferson told him in December of 1824:" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson Spanish American War = McKinley, Democrat Philippine-American War = McKinley, Democrat still Latin American Conflicts - "Banana Wars"= Franklin D. Roosevelt, democrat Boxer Rebellion=Herbert Hoover, Democrat WWI =Woodrow Wilson, Democrat..devout racist. WWII= Franklin D. Roosevelt, democrat Korean War=Truman, Democrat Vietnam War =Kennedy, Democrat Gulf War Bush, Republican Somalia=Clinton Yugoslavia=Clinton Afghanistan=Bush Iraq=Bush I think it's pretty accurate to my statement. Care to clarify your denial of this?
Only Congress has the power to declare war. Anyway, this seems to be pretty comprehensive source --The American Revolution (1775-1783) – George Washington, no political affiliation --The Indian Wars (1775-1890) – George Washington, John Adams (Federalist), Thomas Jefferson (no political affiliation), James Madison (Democratic-Republican), James Monroe (Democratic-Republican), John Quincy Adams (Democratic-Republican), Andrew Jackson (Democrat), Martin Van Buren (Democrat), William Henry Harrison (Whig), John Tyler (Whig), James Polk (Democrat), Zachary Taylor (Democrat), Millard Fillmore (Whig), Franklin Pierce (Democrat), James Buchanan (Democrat), Abraham Lincoln (Republican), Andrew Johnson (Republican), Ulysses Grant (Republican), Rutherford Hayes (Republican), James Garfield (Republican), Chester Arthur (Republican), Grover Cleveland (Democrat), Benjamin Harrison (Republican) --The Whiskey Rebellion (1794) - Anti-Tax Rebels in Western PA, George Washington --Quasi-War With France (1798-1800) - Naval War with France, John Adams (Federalist) --Fries's Rebellion "The Hot Water War" (1799) - Anti-Tax Rebels in PA, John Adams (Federalist) --The Barbary Wars (1800-1815) – War with The Barbary States (Tripoli, Algiers & Morocco), John Adams (Federalist), Thomas Jefferson (no political affiliation), James Madison (Democratic-Republican) --The War of 1812 (1812-1815) - War with Great Britain, James Madison (Democratic-Republican) --Mexican-American War (1846-1848) - War with Mexico, James Polk (Democrat) --U.S. Slave Rebellions (1800-1865) - Slave Rebellions, Thomas Jefferson (no political affiliation), James Madison (Democratic-Republican), James Monroe (Democratic-Republican), John Quincy Adams (Democratic-Republican), Andrew Jackson (Democrat), Martin Van Buren (Democrat), William Henry Harrison (Whig), John Tyler (Whig), James Polk (Democrat), Zachary Taylor (Democrat), Millard Fillmore (Whig), Franklin Pierce (Democrat), James Buchanan (Democrat), Abraham Lincoln (Republican), --"Bleeding Kansas" (1855-1860) - Civil War over slavery in Kansas, James Buchanan (Democrat) --Brown's Raid on Harper's Ferry (1859) - Anti-Slavery Rebels (Led by John Brown), James Buchanan (Democrat) --United States Civil War (1861-1865) – United States (The North) vs.The Confederate States (The South), Abraham Lincoln (Republican) --U.S. Intervention in Hawaiian Revolution (1893) - Internal Rebellion & Foreign Intervention, Benjamin Harrison (Republican) --The Spanish-American War (1898) – War with Spain, William McKinley (Republican) --U.S. Intervention in Samoan Civil War (1898-1899) - Civil War & Foreign Intervention in Samoa William McKinley (Republican) --U.S.-Philippine War (1899-1902) - Colonial War, War of Imperialism, William McKinley (Republican), Theodore Roosevelt (Republican) --Boxer Rebellion (1900) - Internal Rebellion & Foreign Intervention with the Chinese Government & "Boxer" Rebels, William McKinley (Republican) --The Moro Wars (1901-1913) - Colonial Wars with Philippine Muslim Rebels, Theodore Roosevelt (Republican), William Howard Taft (Republican) --U.S. Intervention in Panamanian Revolution (1903) - Secessionist Revolution & Foreign Intervention with Colombia, Theodore Roosevelt (Republican) --The Banana Wars (1909-1933) - Civil Wars & Foreign Intervention with Various Rebel Groups In Central America, William Taft (Republican), Woodrow Wilson (Democrat), Warren Harding (Republican), Calvin Coolidge (Republican), Herbert Hoover (Republican), Franklin D Roosevelt (Democrat) --U.S. Occupation of Vera Cruz (1914) - War with Mexico, Woodrow Wilson (Democrat) --Pershing's Raid Into Mexico (1916-1917) - Border War with Mexican Government & Mexican Rebels ("Bandits"), Woodrow Wilson (Democrat) --World War I (1917-1918:American involvement only) - War with Germany, Woodrow Wilson (Democrat) --Allied Intervention in Russian Civil War (1919-1921) - Civil War & Foreign Intervention with Russian Bolshevik (Soviet) Government, Woodrow Wilson (Democrat) --World War II (1941-1945:American involvement only) – War with Germany, Japan & Italy, Franklin D Roosevelt (Democrat), Harry S Truman (Democrat) --The Cold War (1945-1991) - Global Inter-State Cold War with The Soviet Union & Communist China, Harry S. Truman (Democrat), Dwight D Eisenhower (Republican), John F Kennedy (Democrat), Lyndon B Johnson (Democrat), Richard Nixon (Republican), Gerald Ford (Republican), Jimmy Carter (Democrat), Ronald Reagan (Republican), George Bush (Republican) --The Korean War (1950-1953) – War with North Korea & China, Harry S. Truman (Democrat), Dwight D Eisenhower (Republican) --The Second Indochina War "Vietnam War" (1956-1975) – War with North Vietnam & South Vietnamese "Viet Cong" Rebels, Dwight D Eisenhower (Republican), John F Kennedy (Democrat), Lyndon B Johnson (Democrat), Richard Nixon (Republican), Gerald Ford (Republican) --U.S. Intervention in Lebanon (1958) - Civil War & Foreign Intervention with no real foe for U.S. Troops landed to support Lebanon Govt., Dwight D Eisenhower (Republican) --Dominican Intervention (1965) - Civil War & Foreign Intervention with Rebels in the Dominican Republic, Lyndon B Johnson (Democrat) --The Mayaguez Rescue Operation (News Story 1975) - Hostage Rescue & Inter-State Conflict with Khmer Rouge Guerrillas (the new government of Cambodia), Gerald Ford (Republican) --Iranian Hostage Rescue "Desert One" or "Operation Eagle Claw" (April 25, 1980) - Hostage Rescue & Inter-State Conflict with Iran, Ronald Reagan (Republican) --U.S. Libya Conflict (1981, 1986) – War with Libya, Ronald Reagan (Republican) --U.S. Intervention in Lebanon (1982-1984) - Civil War, Foreign Intervention & War with Syria & Various Muslim and Leftist Lebanese Militias, Ronald Reagan (Republican) --U.S. Invasion of Grenada (1983) – War with Marxist Grenadian Faction & Cuba, Ronald Reagan (Republican) --The Tanker War "Operation Earnest Will" (1987-1988) – War with Iran, Ronald Reagan (Republican) --U.S. Invasion of Panama (1989) – War with Panama, Ronald Reagan (Republican) --Second Persian Gulf War "Operation Desert Storm" (1991) – War with Iraq, George Bush (Republican) --"No-Fly Zone" War (1991-2003) – War with Iraq, George Bush (Republican) --U.S. Intervention in Somalia (1992-1994) - Civil War & Foreign Intervention with Various Somali Militias, George Bush (Republican), William J. Clinton (Democrat) --NATO Intervention in Bosnia “Operation Deliberate Force†(1994-1995) - Civil War, Foreign Intervention & War with Bosnian Serb Rebels, William J. Clinton (Democrat) --U.S. Occupation of Haiti (1994) - Foreign Intervention with Haitian Government, William J. Clinton (Democrat) --U.S. Embassy bombings and strikes on Afghanistan and Sudan “The bin Laden War†(August 1998) - Terrorist Conflicts, William J. Clinton (Democrat) --"Desert Fox" Campaign, part of U.S./Iraq Conflict (December 1998) – War with Iraq, William J. Clinton (Democrat) --Kosovo War (1999) - Civil War, Foreign Intervention & War with Yugoslavia/Serbia, William J. Clinton (Democrat) --Attack on the USS Cole (October 12, 2000) - Terrorist Conflict (Terrorists associated with Osama bin Laden), William J. Clinton (Democrat) – not included in the talley as there was no retaliation for these attacks --Attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon (September 11, 2001) - Terrorist Conflict (Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida organization), George W. Bush (Republican) – not included in the tally as the Afghanistan War was retaliation for these attacks --Afghanistan War “Operation Enduring Freedom†(October 7, 2001-Present) - War against Terrorism (The Taliban and Osama bin Laden's Al-Qaida organization), George W. Bush (Republican) --Third Persian Gulf War "Operation Iraqi Freedom" (March 19, 2003-Present) – War with Iraq, George W. Bush (Republican) Federalist - 3 Democratic-Republican - 1 Democrat - 16 Republican - 23
Well you are adding in attacks on us, conflicts such as the attack on the USS cole (not clintons fault), etc. I also stated 150 yrs for a reason: that is when our governing policies as well as parties came to be in their current guise (despite what liberals claim as a swap in the latter portions of the 19th century). Also, such as the US intervention in Lebanon in 1958, you cannot count as it was a UN intervention, not an American one. Also, it was not a war. Conflicts are systematic spars. Shall we conclude, under you premise, that the UK "bailing out" and abandoning the French during the suez canal conflict as a war that the UK lost? Point taken?
If you want to add caveats to anything then you can prove what you want. Either way above is a list of all conflicts that the US has been involves in, both in a defensive and aggressive capacity and I think we can clearly see that Is actually incorrect Er, what is your point? Or having being proved wrong are you changing the subject?
Proved wrong? How so? I noted every war we've been involved in in the past 150 years and the corresponding President, which backed my assertation.. and you call that "wrong" So if I say that the sky is blue, you would call that wrong as well?
Show how it's wrong. I've already told you, conflicts (such as Panama Invasion, the USS Cole being bombed..etc) don't count as wars because *gasp!* they weren't wars. You, in your ever so limited wisdom however, deemed it worthy to go back to the inception of the United States, back to the beginning, and try to lay cause to Presidents for incendents such as the cuban missile crisis, labeling them as wars. ridiculous.
So you wish to add more caveats to the original statement? When is a conflict not a war? Bearing in mind yor original statement,