Anybody participating in Wall St Occupation?

Kaethy, the reform or revolution if you will is already happening but it is not started because of some Bolchevyk group saying let's kill the zsar. This has been years in the making and this is an expression of people coming together and deciding to express that they are no longer willing to support the banking injustices which so many have grown to accept as just "one of those things". Michael Moore or the others did NOT start this and having absolutely not a thing to do with it. They come in late in the game making it look as if the solution is theirs and as if these people demonstrated for their agendas. They are not. Of course if all the media does is interview a couple of ignoramuses, then the impression might be understandable.


These people are handing their opinion and power over to someone else by allowing themselves to sit there like sheep repeating after someone else rather than turning this into a discussion arena.

Of course, the discussions do happen and more and more people are being drawn there. But having MM and a video of some bearded nobody saying "repeat after me" is not really helping the situation.

I would not want to be caught dead in this, but this is not what the demonstrations are really about.


It's fine to use those organizations to help get the word out, but this movement has taken on a life of its own.

And this is how it should continue. Then and only then can people make a difference when they think for themselves and disallow others to talk on their behalves unless the person is truly qualified and in tune with a message truly representing the solutions truly concerned individuals have agreed upon.

But this is still too premature to determine as now is the time that more and more are waking up and joining.


IMO it is important to get all sides, both parties together and forget the paradigm but identify the true problems.

This is not about being "anti government" or wanting socialism. To some it might be but we all know that won't lead anywhere good.


The banking system is where the issues lie. But most people do not fully understand how it works, so this needs to also be a catalyst for education. How do you learn by sitting there and repeating something you may not really got as is probably the case with most of those sitting there?


But it takes America and every country as a whole to come up with the decisions together without the help of politicians protecting the bankers.


Right now this causes division. What matters is the people there and the people around the nation. This is not likely going to stop by itself, so it is essential that everyone knows the reasons for the problems, because then everyone is educated enough to make their own decisions.


We don't need a Red October or another Weimar.

We need transparency on the top. Where does the money flow? How much does the Federal Reserve profit?

Trust me, once the numbers come out, a reform will be inevitable.


Knowledge is the weapon. And if you just surrender your voice to the script of someone who may already be working for "the other side" you may not even be there.


http://www.facebook.com/OccupyAtlanta

A video talking about the "ozone layer" is added to the mix.

This list throws gay rights into the mix.


Let people wake up by themselves. Let them make up their own minds. Maybe our generation was fooled into believing we need to follow someone or join an official organization, but this obviously didn't work.






Individuals like her should be heard. Every nation should have its version of the Fed audited.

Ignorance and complacency are the reason for the last few years being in turmoil.

And simply switching heroes and shepherds will not cut it anymore.


Even though we have learned to always go through an organization to speak our minds.

 

They can think of themselves whatever they want, but there are no bailouts in Capitalism. Neither there is welfare or food stamps, to be fare. So we do not live in a Capitalistic society. Let's just start with that, ok.

You are correct, but you are wrong if you think that by getting somebody out of Washington you will change something. You do not have a choice. "Paper or Plastic"-- that is your choice.

 

Just because our government has a few socialistic practices and a fair amount of corruption, doesn't mean we are not a capitalistic society. I'll grant you that the handouts and bailouts only really gained steam in the first part of the last century, but that only defines us if we fail to change it.

In with the new boss, same as the old boss? The premise of what you are saying is that no real change can be accomplised within the framework of the system, leaving only one choice...... REVOLUTION! I have no doubt quite a few of the folks walking the streets in New York are thinking exactly that.

The truth is, you couldn't keep things the same if you tried to. Elections have consequences. Barack Obama taught us that. Jimmy Carter managed to flush this country down the toilet in just four years, and in only eight more, Ronald Regan managed to make it great again. We may have to roll through a few people to get our modern day Ronald Regan, but I'm optimistic.

Sure the ignorant kids out there marching for their bailout rather than against all bailouts demonstrate a mind set that is disturbing, but what should we expect? Our public schools have been spoon feeding this crap to them for a generation. There are still plenty enough people left that understand what made this country great to help change it's course.

 

Since I have already said more than 1,000 words.

 

I guess this explains the chanting.

After trolling the OWS forums for a while, I can tell you with some certainty, they are trying hard to be the cooler younger tea party. 90% want no party affiliation and want Obama out of office. Their message may get lost over Pelosi and Trumka claiming leadership in their movement, but when you listen to what they are saying on their forum, it isn't looking good for Dems in 2012.

 

I think I'm seeing black helicopters.

 

Not one bit. Looking at this I see only one candidate having a true chance and that would be Ron Paul.

 

In this case I don't want to hear anymore about socialism in Europe, ok? Because it ended by 1991 and never existed in Western Europe. Either that or please do acknowledge that you have no idea what capitalism or socialism are.

Ronald Reagan? Please! Nobody in US history let in more illegals than him, and nobody legalized more illegals than him , let alone whomever they brought over. I won't even start about the debt issues.

I do not advocate for a revolution per se; but this 2-party system along with it's uber-hipocrisy gotta go. I don't really care if it will be replaced by several parties or direct democracy. Mind me reminding you though that congressmen and senators were elected only because it was not possible for everyone to be in DC. They were and are nothing but representatives. With internet in every hose, they are nothing but anachronism like it or not.

 

I do like Ron Paul, I do believe that he is too old to lie also, unlike all other candidates, and he is a bright example of you not having a choice.
" paper or plastic " is your choice. So it will be Perry and Obama, or any other stooge supported by your banker-in-chief.

 

Oh please. Pure capitalism and pure socialism are very difficult to find. Norway would be a great example of a country with heavy socialist leanings. Works out a lot better when you are sitting on vast oil reserves, though not so hot for Venezuela.

Didn't say he was perfect. I said he changed the country for the better. The only people who can't acknowledge that striking difference weren't alive for Carter. Thankfully, they will have Obama to remind them.

Except the masses are asses, which is why we have a representative Democracy. I personally think we need to make it harder to vote, not easier. When this country was formed, only land owners could vote. A basic understanding of the issues people are voting on prior to allowing them to vote would be nice.

 

1. Reagan was a serial tax raiser. As governor of California, Reagan “signed into law the largest tax increase in the history of any state up till then.” Meanwhile, state spending nearly doubled. As president, Reagan “raised taxes in seven of his eight years in office,” including four times in just two years. As former GOP Senator Alan Simpson, who called Reagan “a dear friend,” told NPR, “Ronald Reagan raised taxes 11 times in his administration — I was there.” “Reagan was never afraid to raise taxes,” said historian Douglas Brinkley, who edited Reagan’s memoir. Reagan the anti-tax zealot is “false mythology,” Brinkley said.

2. Reagan nearly tripled the federal budget deficit. During the Reagan years, the debt increased to nearly $3 trillion, “roughly three times as much as the first 80 years of the century had done altogether.” Reagan enacted a major tax cut his first year in office and government revenue dropped off precipitously. Despite the conservative myth that tax cuts somehow increase revenue, the government went deeper into debt and Reagan had to raise taxes just a year after he enacted his tax cut. Despite ten more tax hikes on everything from gasoline to corporate income, Reagan was never able to get the deficit under control.

3. Unemployment soared after Reagan’s 1981 tax cuts. Unemployment jumped to 10.8 percent after Reagan enacted his much-touted tax cut, and it took years for the rate to get back down to its previous level. Meanwhile, income inequality exploded. Despite the myth that Reagan presided over an era of unmatched economic boom for all Americans, Reagan disproportionately taxed the poor and middle class, but the economic growth of the 1980′s did little help them. “Since 1980, median household income has risen only 30 percent, adjusted for inflation, while average incomes at the top have tripled or quadrupled,” the New York Times’ David Leonhardt noted.

4. Reagan grew the size of the federal government tremendously. Reagan promised “to move boldly, decisively, and quickly to control the runaway growth of federal spending,” but federal spending “ballooned” under Reagan. He bailed out Social Security in 1983 after attempting to privatize it, and set up a progressive taxation system to keep it funded into the future. He promised to cut government agencies like the Department of Energy and Education but ended up adding one of the largest — the Department of Veterans’ Affairs, which today has a budget of nearly $90 billion and close to 300,000 employees. He also hiked defense spending by over $100 billion a year to a level not seen since the height of the Vietnam war.

5. Reagan did little to fight a woman’s right to choose. As governor of California in 1967, Reagan signed a bill to liberalize the state’s abortion laws that “resulted in more than a million abortions.” When Reagan ran for president, he advocated a constitutional amendment that would have prohibited all abortions except when necessary to save the life of the mother, but once in office, he “never seriously pursued” curbing choice.

6. Reagan was a “bellicose peacenik.” He wrote in his memoirs that “[m]y dream…became a world free of nuclear weapons.” “This vision stemmed from the president’s belief that the biblical account of Armageddon prophesied nuclear war — and that apocalypse could be averted if everyone, especially the Soviets, eliminated nuclear weapons,” the Washington Monthly noted. And Reagan’s military buildup was meant to crush the Soviet Union, but “also to put the United States in a stronger position from which to establish effective arms control” for the the entire world — a vision acted out by Regean’s vice president, George H.W. Bush, when he became president.

7. Reagan gave amnesty to 3 million undocumented immigrants. Reagan signed into law a bill that made any immigrant who had entered the country before 1982 eligible for amnesty. The bill was sold as a crackdown, but its tough sanctions on employers who hired undocumented immigrants were removed before final passage. The bill helped 3 million people and millions more family members gain American residency. It has since become a source of major embarrassment for conservatives.

8. Reagan illegally funneled weapons to Iran. Reagan and other senior U.S. officials secretly sold arms to officials in Iran, which was subject to a an arms embargo at the time, in exchange for American hostages. Some funds from the illegal arms sales also went to fund anti-Communist rebels in Nicaragua — something Congress had already prohibited the administration from doing. When the deals went public, the Iran-Contra Affair, as it came to be know, was an enormous political scandal that forced several senior administration officials to resign.

9. Reagan vetoed a comprehensive anti-Apartheid act. which placed sanctions on South Africa and cut off all American trade with the country. Reagan’s veto was overridden by the Republican-controlled Senate. Reagan responded by saying “I deeply regret that Congress has seen fit to override my veto,” saying that the law “will not solve the serious problems that plague that country.”

10. Reagan helped create the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. Reagan fought a proxy war with the Soviet Union by training, arming, equipping, and funding Islamist mujahidin fighters in Afghanistan. Reagan funneled billions of dollars, along with top-secret intelligence and sophisticated weaponry to these fighters through the Pakistani intelligence service. The Talbian and Osama Bin Laden — a prominent mujahidin commander — emerged from these mujahidin groups Reagan helped create, and U.S. policy towards Pakistan remains strained because of the intelligence services’ close relations to these fighters. In fact, Reagan’s decision to continue the proxy war after the Soviets were willing to retreat played a direct role in Bin Laden’s ascendancy.

Link

 

For someone whose signature states: ">>My views are my own - INDEPENDENT<<" you certainly have a difficult time illustrating your own views without copy/pasting someone else's views.

 

LMAO. I was thinking the exact same thing. Cut and paste from think progress.

 

Why re-type it if someone's already done it for you? He credits the source below. How about debating the points, i'm sure you could come up with something twisty enough to convince us he was a great leader when indeed even I laughed when I read your post praising him.

Plus, the Carter thing said in 'defense' of America but that got twisted into a 'pre-emptive defense' by the repubs. That is indeed the problem imo. The defence is all good but "pre-emptive strikes", well that could never work. 'just in case they're going to bomb us we'll get in first'. With such a huge war machine, noone is safe from attack.

 

I believe for one to truly understand Reagan's importance and contribution to our country's well being, one must have lived through it. One must have also lived through Carter.

Something that is left out of every conversation about "Reagan growing the size of government" is, Carter dismantled most of it, including our vast system of defense. It took years and a lot of money to rebuild a nation that was nearly castrated.

One example that should take many here back (for those that lived it)... The Desert One Rescue operation in 1980. Thanks to Jimmy Carter dismantling the CIA's network of spies, there was no good intelligence coming out of Iran. Therefore it not only took several months to implant agents and get that intelligence, but what was achieved was a threat to lives and the safety of those attempting to save lives.

The truth is Carter was responsible for a dismantled and demoralized military. Carter as a leader was both ineffective and indecisive.
Most of the country had very little faith in their government. Reagan changed all that. For a great many people he restored hope, faith and confidence in our country, our government and individual Americans.

However one may perceive the method's used to accomplish that must be weighed against the realities faced by those of us that lived it, remember it and long for those days once more!

 

Sounds like the current President.

 

And you have to live it to truly appreciate that reality... Years from now when they try to teach my kids kids about what a great leader he was, grandpa will be there to remind them what a moron he really was.

 

Millions of Americans are embarrassingly ill-informed and they do not care that they are.

 

Whatever you say Misato.

 

Totally agree. Not sure if they're left, centre or right but I think "narcissistic complexes" would suffice the description of many there.