I think that's head-in-the-sand Rob if you really believe the USA hadn't been infiltrating OBL's country (read pride) before then. Why did he attack 1st again? I did provide a movie to make it easy to follow, or so I thought. Let me try again, feel free to tell us where it falls down. I would be interested. I just want to know the facts and so far I've heard nothing to negate this series on facts. [video=youtube;xGo1DqmfHjY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGo1DqmfHjY[/video] Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0kNNqZk3mg Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qATc5jRbVOA
And About those 72 virgins... In light of previous declarations in this forum that the whole 72 virgins reward to terrorist martyrs was just a fabrication... it's worth noting the following paragraphs Bin Laden inserted in that fatwah as a quote from Islamic texts: So notwithstanding claims this reward of gaining favor with the prom queen in heaven (times 72) was a falsehood concocted by infidels... Bin Laden himself claims it as Islamic doctrine. He promised that Islam promises that and more awaits the faithful who heed his call to kill Americans. He did not personally hijack airliners and fly them into buildings, he used promises of rewards in the afterlife to be granted by Allah if others do such deeds. They were acts of terrorism, (and he uses the word "terrorising" in the doc when describing killing of kuffars), and he makes the case that Islam promises rewards after death for those good muslims that do it. Hence, a terrorist action induced by a desire to receive rewards of Islam = Islamic Terrorism.
That's what I thought. I haven't seen you say you support terrorists but you seem to be getting blamed for them all the time... you know that old thing when you hear a lie repeated so often... just had to re-check lol. I shouldn't have needed to, I know.
Yeah, well I woudn't call them trolls, as they do make good convo mostly, just a couple are a little more deceptive than the usual
Bushranger, I'd take the time to put together a medley of IsraeI's greatest hits, but you are far too naive to appreciate it, and I just can't be bothered. Perhaps I should just thank you for promoting the stereotype that naive liberal leadership would wind up with all of us being Islamists. Either way, its funny. Thank you.
Actually the following posts were written by him in here. - In the first he claims there's no evidence the 9-11 hijackers were even Muslims - in the second he offers the reasons some Muslims engage in terrorism, His statements in the 2nd are remarkably similar to the "reasons" shown in Bin Laden's rambling Fatwah. He vacilates between pretending Muslims had no hand in 9/11 (Bin Laden himself made no such excuse, he claimed it as a victory) and trying to indicate terrorism is a very natural response to external stimuli... performed by "some Muslims". If you think it was an accident that one of his recent threads is titled "9/11 was beneficial"... it was his pseudo clever way of saying it and then pretending he said so because of a statement made by Netanyahu. Same with his recent pronouncement that whoever performed the attack on 9/11 was a genius, then claiming it was said because the real perpetrators did such a fine coverup. His hatred for Israel leads him to make posts that leave the unmistakable impression he has more admiration for terrorists than he's free to express openly.
Have you ever heard of the phrase - "Fill your brain with so much garbage that you lose your ability to think again"? Of course you haven't, I just made it up.. But that's what that video is doing.. Its a liberal propaganda. I'm sorry mate, but that's what it is.. I avoided posting about it for the first time.. Because I didn't feel I could express my opinion about it while remaining civil.. But I'll try my best this time. The documentary talks a great length about Sayeed Qutb, it portrays him as a great philosopher who saw America's "sinister"[?] side, counting on the ignorance of people who know very little to none about this Egyptian wearing a moustache strikingly similar to Hitler. Qutb was sent to study American Education System, but he found America to be utterly corrupt, he was disgusted by it's materialism, corruption, racism and vulgarity.. What it doesn't tell you that Qutb was also disgusted by individual freedoms, economic system, boxing matches, haircuts, superficiality in conversations and friendships, restrictions on divorce, enthusiasm for sports, lack of artistic feeling, "animal-like" mixing of the sexes (which "went on even in churches"), and strong support for the new Israeli state. He was disgusted by everything that made America..ahem..America.. So he found that america was a developed country and people knew how to enjoy their lives!! I can imagine his horror and disgust! A woman allowed in church? They were allowed rights same as men!! A husband can't divorce his wife by simply speaking "divorce" three times? Fuck this shit, I'm outta here, back to my shithole.. Qutub also had this to say about American Girls - I dunno about you, but it sounds really perverted to me.. I mean just look at the adjectives man.. Now a documentary that uses Qutb as it's launching point and praises him, is nothing but a full of shit propaganda... The problem with Muslims is that they are the least tolerant of the bunch.. Majority of them just can't accept other values than their own.. They are easily disgusted by someone else' values, and get angry even more easily.. I do not say that sometimes the fear of terrorism is not exaggerated, but most of the times, it's as real as it can get.. You say "if USA hadn't been infiltrating OBL's country.." What Country mate? infiltrated?? American presence in Saudi Arabia wasn't infiltration.. It was a mutual agreement! And if Osama had problems with that, he should have taken it with Saudi prince/king/his dog/whatever. His philosophy (more or less) was - "Let us fuck each other in middle east, but I'm offended if US comes here to set this shit straight".. Why the heck he thought that it was okay for Saddam to fuck Kuwait, but not for US to spank Saddam? Heck, my pride could be hurt by your mere existence, does that justify it if I go and blow 10 people to pieces?
My thanks to you The Webby for remaining civil and posting your angle. I think we all can surely discuss a situation we all hate without attacking each other in the process, though I expect and accept sometimes it may get testy. A sensible discussion is what's needed to reach a conclusion on the evils of it all. No need to be sorry, you are a Republican. We quite obviously don't agree on some things, that's good. I know you're mostly nice. There's not a lot you say that I don't agree with. Did you watch all three hours or had to give up after the first? As the first hour & half just sets the scene. What makes you say it is "liberal" propaganda rather than Muslim or anti-war people? You didn't need to convince me he was an absolute tool because I agree with that 100%, as are ALL of them there and anyone who takes 'FAITH' to the extreme. It's certainly not him or his ilk I am defending even slightly but i'm not going to defend Bush and the Neo-cons actions either. Finding out who, what & how happened condemning both sides is warranted imho, it's not ALL one-sided terror (that being the whole of my argument). I think the documentary does go into detail on him and shows you how idiotic each of the players are. It certainly doesn't shine him in any good light and holds no punches on either side imho. As far as I remember (I watched it all last year) it did say that he was "disgusted by individual freedoms, economic system, boxing matches, haircuts, superficiality in conversations and friendships, restrictions on divorce, enthusiasm for sports, lack of artistic feeling, "animal-like" mixing of the sexes (which "went on even in churches"), and strong support for the new Israeli state." etc. etc. Even so, him being a Muslim retard when most of our "Allied" governments side are "fruity-loop" evangelical Christians. I wasn't interested in who he was, just what he did and why. We learn that from that video I thought. What's the difference if both sides are happy to go kill people to reach their aim? The number of people killed? What I wanted to bring to the attention in particular with that video was the foreign policies (which I thought it did so must rewatch & see), and how it affected others, not just the simpletons like him, starting in the 60s working through to creating OBL. I truly don't think it was straight-out propaganda (though everything is in some way), as it would be telling porkies to make its case. I saw it was exploring and trying to explain exactly what happened, from the beginning, as told by people not involved in the politics of war, however I may certainly may be wrong and will admit it if so.
I tried my best, but I see that I got worked up at points.. In my opinion, we may differ in our opinions, but the argument should always remain free from personal insults and name calling. I'm not a republican, I don't actually associate with any political party.. I base my opinions on issues and individual merit of candidates, whether it's liberal or conservatives.. On few things I find myself arguing against many republicans.. I strongly support attack on Afghanistan but I never supported invasion of Iraq, I don't support the oil politics either.. No, not all three parts. Hard pressed on time mate.. I lost the interest after watching the first part.. It's repeating the same story I've heard so many times already. The documentary presents liberal aspect, there is no doubt about it, Now Why I think it is a propaganda? Because the way it tells the story.. It doesn't say that Qutb was a lunatic, it uses him as a tool to 'expose' the problems in western society. My problem with this video is that it states the exact reasons of radicalism we find in today's world, and then it goes on neglecting the very point it makes. What promotes Radicalism? What provokes extremists. One is hatred, another is reluctance to accept someone else' values as I stated in my previous post. Lack of tolerance is what fuels them.. Let's just pause here and think, Why youth of Egypt in 1949 or youth of Iran in 2011 are easily influenced by western culture? Because it wakes up the sense of Individual freedom in them. Why Islamist like Qutb in 1949, or in 2011 feel disgusted by the influence of Western culture? Because of the same thing.. They fear Individual freedom to the point that they hate it. Documentary goes into details to paint everything black and white.. May be since I hadn't watched all three parts I'm feeling this way. Probably I should have watched all three parts before jumping on conclusions, but first part did enough to repel me. Speaking of Government Foreign policies.. If we go down in history, probably we will have to start, I dunno, since two different cultures met for the first time? I believe the conflict, what we see today, actually started when two different ideology met for the first time. It's not in our nature to accept that a different ideology than our own can exist and can possibly be right. We always believe that our ideology is the best for everyone. And I just lost the track of my thoughts.. I had what I wanted to say.. but my brain is going into a loop now.. I will recollect my thoughts, and make another post about it later..
If the act of terrorism was done by members of a certain religion, because of their religious beliefs, yes. Do you call a horse a 4-legged mammal? Do you call a lizard a 4-legged mammal? If it's religious terrorism there's nothing wrong with calling it religious terrorism.
Never point a finger to any religion, people who talk here they need to read more about it, no religion tells you for terrorism, they talk about peace all the relgions are similar, they were changed afterwards. Islam is all about peace too. I read lots of books.
Oh ya , all religions tell you to go to war to spread the word of the prophet . I'm sure that Buddhism & Christianity spread because the Arabs waged war for centuries in the names of those religions by the order or the founders of those religions .
There is no one here who is telling that any religion tells you to do massacre all around. It was asked that whether we should adhere terrorism to some religion or not.. Better read out my friend what's the topic is
hahahah,.. i can utterly laugh hard on this and can get same responses from other mates. Muslims are not in the middle age, as described by someone here, but they are even finding the stone age. They are being affected by any single stuff that these Terrorists say. Once they read what actually is written in quran, they will understand what is right and wrong. This terrorist who are expert in brain washing puts quotes from quran in tricky manner which brings out evil.. What mainly needed is muslims getting educated and at least read what their religious book has in it.,..