United States Heading towards a Depression?

Well at least this argument brings the traditional niavite most leftists carry with them from birth. There is no business transaction where a profit is made that is not made at someone elses expense.

Example: I sell my bike to you for $100. You have a friend that is looking for that exact bike for $200, so you make $100. Your $100 profit was made at the expense of the seller, who could have gotten $100 more, and at that of the buyer who could have paid $100 less. However, without your aid, the buyer may have never met the seller, preventing the seller from even receiving $100, and the buyer from getting his bike(which he later restores and sells as a collectable for $2000)

Illegals coming across the border are no different. They come here for jobs and benefits. Those jobs and benefits are provided at the expense of the currently employed and the taxpayers.

In the bike scenario, the transaction is voluntary and mutually agreed to. In the case of illegals, the transaction is involuntary and not mutually agreed to. Those types of transactions, under common law, are referred to as theft. If you are such a big fan of business transactions that are not mutually agreed to, perhaps you won't mind if I empty your bank accounts without your permission. After all, I am "helping myself" per your definition of the phrase. Certainly not mine.

 

Not any more... LINK

All while the politicians argued last week about the budget. Isnt that strange, the middle class in the USA is being destroyed, while the middle class in Mexico is growing...? Who would do such a thing ?

 

There lies the problem as this is how things used to be: I charged for my time and effort to get the $100 profit. If my friend came with me to the place where I found the bike he coulda bought it for $100 too but he didn't so I bought it, cleaned it up a little and sold it to him at well below market rate.

Today, the "profit" is built in automatically. Whether you actually worked for it or not is irrelevant. This is the mindset of people in the stockmarket. "You don't need to work to make a profit". Now whilst this may be true, it throws off the real values of absolutely everything, including morals.

 

As expected, you somehow or other managed to miss the point. Whether you give the $100 to your friend, or you take it as a sales and marketing commission, or you give it to the seller as charity is up to you. All parties to the deal are consenting. Your example of illegals coming across the border to "help themselves" is a perfect example of the kind of non-consensual transactions you attribute to stock brokers.

You don't have a problem with theivery, your only concern is that the "right" people are doing the robbing.

 

Of course there's no truth there. I do have a BIG problem with thievery. Most of your illegals aren't thieving and many are forced into thieving because they can't survive without finding a job. Many of your illegals are brought in by other illegals and given a job or are often brought in by 'citizens' wanting to take advantage of cheap workers. No thievery involved. Twisting my words to suit your context doesn't fix your problem.

 

Seeing as how you live on a giant island, i can sympathize with your ignorance on this issue. Let me educate you a bit.

1) Nobody forces these people to come to this country. They often pay thousands of dollars to "coyotes" to smuggle them in. Those same "coyotes" often end up taking their money, then holding them as hostages for more money once they have them at their mercy.
2) Citizens do not smuggle illegals in, except in rare situations. See #1.
3) The "thievery" I was referring to was referring to the taxpayer supported social welfare programs that nearly ALL of these illegal immigrants put a burden on. The taxpayers certainly weren't asked if they wanted to pay for the medical care of 13 million illegal immigrants, but the state facilitates the theft on behalf of the illegals.
4) Your support for that theft is not a twist of your words. You just repeated your stance on the issue(you know almost nothing about) again.

 

Your house is fucked and mine is fantastic. That's not forcing me to come but certainly makes it tempting. My neighbourhood has theives and the people think that's normal. I want to go to America!

Yes they do.

When you can show me evidence that says "illegals are costing us 600m" and another that says "illegals are making us a lot less than 600m" then that may be the problem you're talking about.

When you go to a slighter bigger picture (like zooming out on the Google maps), I think the numbers are in fact they they earn you at least three times more than they cost you.

I don't support theft, just fairness.

 

Interesting article, it actually came out in July...

It also has a follow up here.

 

Not only did it forestall a worldwide financial meltdown, but a Fortune analysis shows that U.S. taxpayers are coming out ahead on it -- by at least $40 billion, and possibly by as much as $100 billion eventually...


And oddly enough it is the Tea Party House that is pushing the economy in the direction of a renewed recession.

With a year remaining the Administration can build on its record but only if it is able to distinguish itself from the Republican failures, past and present and enforce the proper measures necessary to sustain the recovery.

 

The tax system collects its due, even from a class of workers with little likelihood of claiming a refund and no hope of drawing a Social Security check.

Illegal immigrants are paying taxes to Uncle Sam, experts agree. Just how much they pay is hard to determine because the federal government doesn't fully tally it. But the latest figures available indicate it will amount to billions of dollars in federal income, Social Security and Medicare taxes this year. One rough estimate puts the amount of Social Security taxes alone at around $9 billion per year.

The Social Security Administration estimates that about three-quarters of illegal workers pay taxes that contribute to the overall solvency of Social Security and Medicare.

Ford, of Middle Tennessee State University, said a majority of economists agree that illegal immigrants are a net benefit for the U.S. economy.

He said the tax contributions from illegal immigrants, including sales taxes, property taxes and excise taxes (such as the gas tax), are significant.

He calculates that illegal immigrants contributed $428 billion dollars to the nation's $13.6 trillion gross domestic product in 2006. That number assumes illegal immigrants are 30% less productive than other workers.

"If anything we need more immigrants coming into the country, not less, especially with the baby boomers retiring," he said.

Source

 

Sure... what is a measly $40 or $100 billion when the total is in the trillions? Ugh...


This is what should be... if you people are going to accept that bank failures are in fact your responsibility :

Breeze wood and his ilk gladly help the bankers out of their problems... even to the trillions of dollars and perpetuate the day until the house of cards comes crumbling down, just like the 1930's.


Because the Breeze Wood society can say ludicrous statements like "taxpayers are coming out ahead"... and think they are actually doing people a favor saying that, it shows how profound the deception has become.



Go look at Iceland's experience with debt and bankers. Then compare it with what is happening in the good ol' United States. You will want the Iceland option. I promise you will want the Iceland option. LINK //


Stop listening to people like Breeze Wood, think how history is about to repeat itself, and please read the LINK.



Here is an excerpt :

It really is your choice to keep thinking like you have... or ... to believe the first lesson in economics...


More Debt Does Not Equal Lesser Debt

 

Whenever someone cites anonymous "experts", I know they are full of shit. Exactly how does someone who doesn't have a Social Security number pay taxes, hmmm???

Here in Boston, there is a huge underground economy based on illegal Brazilian immigrants that pay no taxes. Employers know they are illegal because they have no driver's license and no Social Security Number (and no birth certificate, hence no driver's license). Employers can pay them shit and save money.

Here in Boston it's a big deal. Illegals used to just take away jobs like busboy, waiting tables & tending bar (they shut down a bar called Vox for hiring illegals behind the bar, in the kitchen, etc). Now they are taking away higher paying jobs like outside sales and office temps.

Boston's lower middle class, struggling to make ends meet, want these illegals out of here because they take their jobs away. Now it's taking jobs away from middle class. It's businesses that want illegal immigrants because it saves them money while screwing the poor. It's the political 3rd rail for government while is why Obama is too cowardly to do anything about it. What does he do, lose the votes of the poor, or lose campaign donations from big business?

That is what is so ironic here - illegal immigrants are screwing the America's poor, while making boatloads of money for big business. So please, someone explain to me why liberals are in favor of screwing the poor on this issue???

 

The Obama Administration has been in office only 2.5 years and Obama not even a full term in the Senate.....even if the above (first) sentence makes any sense, everyone knows it is both National and State as an issue involving commerce, govt's., labour, the private sector etc etc. No preceding President has had any more affect on the problem than the present Administration and it is a poor illusionary using the word coward to describe any of them.


It was the Republican Administration that attempted to undercut working Americans by encouraging Mexican Trucking Firms free access to the Nations Highways as an Example of a 3rd rail of government in league with Business interests against working Americans.

Just enforcing the existing laws to punish businesses who hire illegal immigrants would solve most of the problems.

 

Corwin, in DC and Baltimore illegals buy documents for $140 - 200. Green Card - Social Security - ID Cards

Once they have that companies not using e-verify puts them in payroll.

Fill up W-2 form I-9

Then payroll with deductions

 

It's all propaganda preparing you for the North American Union.

 

Lmao. You not only support theft, you try and rationalize it. Your rationalization goes something like this:"Its ok that I broke the law and took $200 from 150 million taxpayers, because I started a business with it and created jobs that more than repaid what I stole".

Hell, why have laws at all. Just take what you want and, if you can prove you put the money to good use, no harm no foul. '

Sorry pal. We live in a nation of laws. Peddle thievery some place else.

FYI, estimates put the cost of illegal immigration at $113 Billion dollars annually, and that doesn't take into account loss of entry level jobs that would have otherwise been occupied by legal citizens. And no, they don't generate anything near that in taxes.

Add on the immigration issue anchor babies that are all coming of legal age to vote, and you are looking at a fundamental change in American culture. Just another reminder of why we drafted the immigration laws in the first place. If anything, we ought to look at how Australia deals with both immigration and multiculturalism as the shinning example of success it is. I bet you are real popular around town.

 

90% of us understand we were all immigrants here and most of us don't mind. The biggest argument here is we want the infrastructure to go with the number of people they bring in but the government's playing politics with it instead of making towns bigger. Only 10% of the very loud right-wing think like you (preferring they be shot) and unfortunately, the right-wing have stolen our government atm (and I wouldn't be surprised to find it is American led).

 

The payroll tax reduction (workers only) achieved by the Administration in tandem with extending the Bush tax cuts last December is an odd concession and little known accomplishment that even the Democrats fail to appreciate or wholeheartedly support.

The Republican disdain for a lower payroll tax for workers demonstrates the very political nature the Bush tax cuts actually represent.

If the Administration were able to rally the Democrats to support this extension while ending the Bush cuts for the wealthy, the entire dynamics of economic reform would be put to the advantage of the Democrats in Congress and be a rallying point for success in the 2012 elections.

 

I'm confused. Was that excuse more of a "Do as I say, not as we do" or more of an, "90% of us are ruled by a totalitarian 10% here in Australia", or some strange combination of both. Perhaps you were asserting that Australia is not a Democracy?

Tell you what. You and the "90%" who think like you change your immigration laws, and we will happily send you the millions of illegal immigrants we get every year. Should I hold my breath?

 

Where did the money go ?


LINK


A secret deal with the central bank and the Wall Street market, in the trillion dollar range... ugh.