United States Heading towards a Depression?

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Sorry you feel so bad Mia, you should try and understand the situation to better find real solution than relying on your childish behavior - a behavior only this Forum would tolerate.

Boehner the Republican House and McConnell have only themselves to blame for the S&P Downgrade for failing to address and shape properly their legislation for Debt Reduction. And yes the appropriate increase in revenue would have staved off the Downgrade.

Boehner and McConnell consumed a Summer without accomplishment, perhaps in the Fall they can work for the Nation and not the Republican Party.

 

over 600 down now punk.. What say ye know? Seems you're speechless.

Yeah, it was that tsunami... Your hopeless...

 

Right. And, it's not just discrimination, but being unemployed involuntarily for an extended period of time can make one feel a bit hopeless.

With the lack of lemonade stands, it could be attributable to a lessening of an entrepreneur spirit. It could also just be it's a different world. It's not as trusting. When I was a little girl, my sister and I would go way out for Halloween. Of course, we would go trick or treating ourselves, but we would have a lot of fun answering the door. We would play spooky music. My sister would dress up as a witch, and I would arrange a table with bowls of gross things to feel. For example, a bowl of grapes with the skin peeled off (eyeballs). When the kids would come to the door, before they could get their treat, they had to come in the entryway, submit to being blindfolded, and feel all the slimies. As an adult, I don't even get any trick or treaters. In fact, if I tried to bring back those good times, it's possible the police might be called. LOL As far as the mindset and a commitment, that could be discussed on the site. The 40 up crowd you discussed above would probably latch on easily. Some people need a bit of guidance, but that's what the site would be about. A strong revival of individual entrepreneurship in this country is exactly what we need to pull out of this slump.

Here we may differ slightly. I definitely do see some value in political action, but it's not even close to the whole solution (in this case). Not near. Many of the unemployed are in a sense of limbo, waiting for a company to decide to hire them. I think Tea Party events involve getting people riled up, and hoping that the "powers that be" will change things. They are most closely related to Republicans. If Republicans get elected, in my opinion, they will do everything they can to protect the interests of large corporations and the wealthiest Americans (hoping wealth will trickle down, but it doesn't seem to). With the Democrats, they will try to offer financial assistance (yet, that is difficult in this economy with 1 in 7 Americans on food assistance). But what both parties are lacking is a strong movement to actually empower the struggling not to be reliant on handouts in the first place. So, I think that would be the main focus of the site. A resurgence of self sufficiency and the entrepreneurial spirit in America. Let's all start a business and make something! As far as political action, if the site got really big, you know, many Americans would want to shop there, rather than support some of these multi-million dollar corporations that treat workers like crap, and outsource jobs.

I think that's an interesting story and a good observation. It's never too late for any of us to learn. I haven't read books written by Julius Caesar...

 

I want to call that the "point of points".


Could you imagine if all those in public schools today and in the recent past were actually taught what she was taught ? I suppose there would never be a depression ever again.



Breeze Wood ! Get out your history books and learn what John Kennedy, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine and a few others have in common.

 

You are exactly right it is a different world. Have you noticed in the news the little girls that are being restrained from having their own simple lemonade stands ?? LINK



It is a travesty. Choking those who are just trying to help themselves is a travesty.

 

 The tea party may be more closely aligned with Republicans, but they are definitely a repudiation of both parties. The only reason people tie them with Republicans at all is because they believe in what Republicans used to stand for. I agree that the majority of elected Republicans now stand for protecting the interests of the wealthy who donate to their campaigns, but to be fair, so do the Democrats. There is very little difference between the two in that regard. For that reason, a variety of establishment Republicans were removed from their positions in their own primaries by the tea party, even if that meant having the seat go to a Democrat because of it.

 The constant mischaracterization of the Tea Party with the worst stereotypes of the Republican party cracks me up. Exteme right wing, religious zealots who militantly do the bidding of big business is a cartoon made up by some left wing idiot who had hard time making the image even stick to Republicans. The guys I know could give a crap about pot smoking or whether the gays marry. They are as outraged by government bailouts of big business as anyone on the left, if not more. I know at least one registered Democrat that attends the rallies, though Im sure there are many more.

I personally appreciate the mischaracterizations because I think they serve to "rile people up" as you say. If having the government give your tax dollars to Big business and special interests doesn't get you pissed off enough to take political action, having people call you a racist, extremist, tea bagger is usually enough to get the job done. Having an arrogant prick in the white house telling you daily that nothing is his fault and that you are to blame for everything, while he rapidly hands your cash to special interests also helps.  

Until people get riled up, nothing changes.

Shopping as an act of political action, or voting with your wallet. I'm a huge fan. Now you are talking Tea Party gospel and verse.

 

Sorry you feel so bad Mia, you should try and understand the situation to better find real solution than relying on your childish behavior....

 

That's crazy.

It wasn't intentional if I mischaracterized the Tea Party. Sorry. All I really meant to say is that encouraging a revival of entrepreneurship appears a more attractive solution to me, than concentrating on campaigning for the benevolence of the powers that be (and may be). It's one way people could take greater control of their own destiny. On the topic of the site though, I don't think it should be a platform specifically for the Tea Party, or the Republicans, or the Democrats, because you would be putting off a large portion of visitors, no matter which way you go, it should focus mainly on a message of self sufficiency and entrepreneurship. The idea is more of a turning inward, instead of waiting for help, it's creating it yourself - with a possible solution to break free, especially for some of the struggling or unemployed working class. I think this should be more of an American thing, rather than a party thing.

 

Like I said, you're hopeless.

Still in the wheel house calm as can be telling everyone the Titanic will not sink.

Enjoy your time at the bottom.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with the first sentence. As far as the second sentence, I believe that the Tea Party believes in what the Republicans pretend to stand for.

What makes the Tea Party so very dangerous to Washington is that they reject the status quo. The status quo is that, if you are in Washington, the more money you spend, the more power you have. If you bloat your spending you bloat your power. Oddly enough, because the Tea Party rejects politics as usual, I've noticed that the more the Tea Party is attacked, the stronger they seem to grow - hence their intense influence in the debt debate.

BTW, few people have noticed that last Wednesday, China downgraded U.S. debt from A+ to A.

3-Aug-2011: "China's Dagong Global has cut the credit rating on U.S. sovereign debt to A from A+, Chen Jialin, general manager of the international department at the firm told CNBC on Wednesday. The agency has also put the U.S. on negative outlook...Explaining its decision Dagong said the debt deal had not changed the general trend in which the increase in debt outpaced the increase in GDP and tax revenue."

I watched Obama's speech on CNBC today. The Dow had been stable and hovering the previous half-hour, but as Obama was speaking it became clear that this was not an economics speech, but a public relations statement. I watched as the Dow plunged 40 points in seven minutes.

The Dow lost 600 points in one day. Shit.

 

@Rebecca: No big deal on the characterization/mischaracterization of the Tea Party. Extreme right wing of the Republican party is what is being repeated over and over and over again by the media until, they hope, it is accepted as factual if only for the repetition of it. I think there is very real concern on the part of both parties and the existing establishment that, if the Tea Party is not heavily marginalized, things will change. Real change is always a very large concern to those who benefit from the status quo.

I also appreciate your desire to focus on a positive message, one of lifting ones self up, rather than relying on someone else to solve your problems for you. I agree wholeheartedly. I would only add the caveat that it is very difficult to grow in arid and infertile soil. To reference the lemonade stand example that has been mentioned on this thread, I believe it was Ft. Meyers police in Florida who were asking the children to pay the $50/day business license to keep their lemonade stand open. I don't care how much those kids want to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and be entreprenureal, there is no way they are going to make enough money from their lemonade stand to pay off the people who are supposedly there to protect and serve.

I'll cite another example. When I was growing up, Clarke Foam was the industry standard for surfboard blanks(foam cores). My Dad learned to surf on a balsa wood board, but the industry really took off when lighter foam core boards hit the market around 1970. Clarke owned 95% of the business in the industry because they were the first ones in, the best known, and the most widely recognized. After battling with the EPA for 20 years starting in the 80s, Clarke found their business to be unprofitable, despite they were the market leader with 95% market share in a still rapidly growing business. They shut their doors, making foam blanks virtually impossible to acquire for almost a year, thereby driving the cost of a new surfboard through the roof. The gap in the market has since been filled by several companies not based in the US. With the profits, the associated jobs are gone as well. These types of stories are fairly common and, amongst the more sinister of them are tales of the use of government muscle being used to drive out competition.

Focusing on new business is a great idea, but failure to deal with getting the government out of your day to day affairs will severely hamper your chances of success. The folks who run GE certainly know this to be true.

@Corwin: Agree with you about the tea party, though people are going to need to speak out against people like the government subsidy lovin' Michelle Bachman who declare themselves to be Tea Party leaders. Amazing how many blood suckers there are out there, just looking to replace the old blood suckers.

I didn't see Obama's speech, but if it was anything like his other speeches, his words defied reality. We all saw the Obama Jedi video and got a few chuckles out of it, but I don't think any of us really thought he would try and run his presidency assuming the world population, Americans, and the people on wall street were all idiots. It seems even his most ardent supporters on the left have now declared him a failed president. Its a shame we have to wait another year and a half to get him out of office.    

[video=youtube;N-9eNSniQgg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-9eNSniQgg[/video] 

 

  That is certainly not how you described the phenomena of Limited Partnerships in your response.  You responded in a typical Right Wing context: "raising taxes/fees---kills the rest of the people"  bs.  I've been around a lot of GP's in limited partnerships.  The prevailing credo was how do I put more $$ in my pockets.  

Good GP's, experience and the luck and timing of markets create good deals and it spreads the wealth.  OTOH...GP's w/ strong track records keep pulling more and more out of the deals.   Taxing the GP's differently won't impact investors at all.

I've enclosed the legislation.  Its only directed to GP's and its directed at carried income.  It does neither thing you are implying and on which you are using fear tactics:  http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/mi12_levin/PR040309.shtml  

  Yuk yuk yuk.  don't turn the legislation into something its not. BTW:  I was a GP on one deal.  I invested 1% of funds and received 4.5% of equity....plus management fees.   Not sure how that would be treated in the context of this proposed legislation......ah welll--that is why tax accountants and tax attorneys get paid the big bucks.

 I didn't bother with the scare tactics, gross exagerations, etc.  You possibly missed the substance of what I wrote.  I suggested taking 1/2 and using it against debt and 1/2 at using it to hire people who are not working at $40,000/year.  Just using 1/2 the funds came to about 50,000 people going back to work.   I know you find that concept abhorrent.  

A.  Simplifying the tax code has one impact.   It simplifies the tax code.  Nobody goes to work.  Probably a lot of accountants lose jobs.  This past decade we experienced the phenomena of LOWER TAXES than the decade of the 1990's.  Net result of this past decade.  NO JOB CREATION.  none.   Net result of the decade of the 1990's   22 million jobs created.   The myth about taxes creating jobs is a myth.  Demand creates jobs.
B.  As govt spending is being cut currently very dramatically and visibly at the state and local levels.....lots and lots of people are losing jobs.  Or haven't you noticed.    
C.  Welfare was adjusted in the 1990's.  It did move people into work.   meanwhile Businesses aren't hiring workers.  Endless people are trying to get work and there isn't enough hiring.  

I know I know...your goal in life is to see the unemployed starve to death and ensure the hedge fund managers get more fois de gras. 

D.  All current reports suggest immigration has slowed and reversed in the US.  Meanwhile one thing tech companies are starving for are skilled tech workers from foreign lands.  We need to encourage people with skills to move to the US and work.

E.  The union argument is generally bogus and bull sh!t with most of the reasoning behind it solely political as is much of the GOP agenda which attacks unions, people who can be eligible to vote, etc.   Instead of spending time on economic issues the GOP spends most of its time trying to dismantle entities that generally favor the Democrats.  

If people are going to whip the stuffing out of govt workers in cities, states, and at the fed level they should  hit the higher income folks also during these tough times.   As it is right now and over the last few months the largest number of people who are losing jobs are govt. employees. 

The Fortune 500 companies that are international are a different animal altogether.  I read where these businesses, independent of job cuts during the recession fired about 2.3 million American workers in the decade of the 2000's up to the recession and hired 2.8 million people overseas.  These are American companies.   But they don't seem to be supporting America.  I'd address these businesses very tightly.  They have been getting massive tax breaks and they don't seem to be doing squat vis a vis the recession....except for hoarding cash like never before.

On an anecdotal basis on July 27 GE announced they were moving a division from Wisconsin to China:  their X-Ray division.  What a beast.  Corwin....its not the entire Waukesha GE campus which reportedly employs about 6500 people:  http://www.choosemilwaukee.com/topemployers.aspx   But it is a group of supposedly 65.  

Still the brutal irony.  Immelt, seems to be everyone's whipping boy.  The GOP likes to call him an Obama buddy as he was appointed to be in charge of a committee to create American jobs.   OTOH, I looked into his political contributions over the past decade and HE ISN'T a big political contributor to the parties.....having contributed about $30,000 over 10 years to Republicans and $20,000 in that same period to Dems  (Obama not one of them).  (He did spread $2300/per candidate to a lot of people running for Pres in 2008---and it looks like all the recipients of that money lost in primaries or the general election.

He isn't an Obama buddy...but he does have this damn job...and he just announced shipping 65 jobs to China from the US and his company paid no US fed taxes last year.....and that is after getting a guarantee on loans in 2009 that could have kept the business afloat....and having significant sales directly to the US govt...which means taxpayers are paying for GE's stuff....and GE isn't paying taxes.

I'd start ripping up bennies and tax breaks to the corporate giants in the midst of this recession.  

The last thing I'd do though is buy into the GOP plan a la O_Nation as to what to do about the economy.  This is pretty close to the GOP formula for "success" during the decade of 2001-2010.  Lets see it created no job growth and the biggest recession since the Great Depression. 

 

With your track record over the Summer and the resultant downgrade per the Republican Debit Increase a year and a half will be needed for your recovery, if possible.
..............
 

Mia, while You, McConnell and Boehner are with O...nation recovering for 2012 be sure and take some time out for you special election tomorrow.....

 

Corwin has finally posted a sentence that actually makes sense (to me). Yay!

 

Jesus Earlpearl. No wonder it took you so long to respond. You were writing a small book! Thank god most of it was mindless non-fact based talking points about "fear mongering", or responding might have been an onerous task. I'll be as brief as possible:

1) I skim read the proposal to tax carried interest as income tax and I can't see anything wrong with it at first glance. If the legislation actually made it to a vote in that format(if that is possible), I suspect I would support it. This is what is called a reasonable response to a reasonable and well defined proposal put out by someone without having to demagogue based on party affiliation. Do you think you are capable of the same? 

2)  Expanding government is expanding government, regardless of whether you use two billion taxpayer dollars to do it, or four. Putting people to work should only be the job of the government for a very narrowly defined set of tasks the government is charged with. Repeat after me, Government employment equals a bigger government equals a bigger burden on every tax payer.
 
3) Simplifying the tax code eliminates "loopholes" for special interests large and small. Your president Obama is pushing the idea of eliminating "loopholes", so I would figure this is something a partisan like yourself could get behind. Why the push back?

"You aint seen nothin yet". Refer to #2.
 

It sure as hell did. Were you alive during the 90s? It was one of the most effective pieces of legislation Billy "B.J" Clinton ever signed.

LMAO. You should see the "qualified tech people" we get from India, Pakistan, and China. Seriously man, we could be pushing the masses of unemployed through vocational schools and getting better trained help that actually speaks English, without some coyote taking 70% of their wage as a markup. H1B was designed to allow the US to import the best and brightest from foreign nations. Instead it is being used as a foreign worker program to drive down demand  and prices in a market that still has  skyrocketing demand in a recession. You should try and sell that philosophy to some of the kids coming out of colleges who cant find work, even in tech.

Regarding the sea of illegals arriving from other locations, that tide is starting to stem a bit based on a poor economy, tougher local laws, and increased enforcement. Alabama just declared it a crime to be found in the state as an illegal alien. My guess is that most illegals in Alabama just packed their bags for  Californa.

He's not Obama's buddy, though he does have the job as council for jobs. Really? I've got a question. Have you ever had your wife or girlfriend walk in while you had your pants around your ankles, having sex with someone else? If you did, did you try telling your wife or girlfriend, "I'm not having sex" or "I don't like this girl" or anything like that?  That is about how flat your partisan nonsense plays to a sane person. Seriously.

You know as well as I do that political supporters and friends are the first pick for political appointments, more so with this president than almost any other. Putting Immelt in charge of jobs is like appointing Hamas to head up Israeli defenses. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it. Get over it and admit it.
  
 

 

Alright, Someone started a thread about America and depression..
Skipping initial blah blah, Rebecca has an awesome Idea for a unique social networking site, Obamanation is concerned about lemonade stands to entrepreneurship, Corwin shares his life story comparing educational differences between public and private schools, There are some debates about Tea Party, Barak Obama and America's credit rating..
earl perl made some tl;dr...
Mia and Breeze are locking their horns, aloof of everything else that's going on in the thread, as usual..

What else did I miss?
I'm just trying to get the gist of the thread...

 

You missed the bit where I'm complaining because this thread only reinforces the problem and should be closed and another should started where the title at least is talking America UP rather than DOWN. So everytime we come on here the first thing we DON'T read is "United States is heading towards depression, which we have for the last 3 years straight.

 

 


Ron and Rand Paul say downgrade is fault of Washington, not Tea Party  .


Their beloved "Tea Party" - the flaxum Republicans no longer have caged. 

No, Ron and Paul are without fault.

 

O_Nation:

Why would anyone with eyes and a brain want to buy into the GOP program?

Bush and Republican Congress came into power in 2001.   Took office passed 2 enormous tax cut deals.   Told the world this is the route to enormous Success, job growth and a healthy economy.

10 years later= NO Job Growth;  Worst Recession in 70 years.  Entire economy has faltered.  Oil prices soared during this period.  US debt exploded.  GOP congresses increased spending at about 50% higher rates than Congresses of previous decade and Bush Never vetoed a GOP outrageous spending bill.  

With a track record for creating the worst economy every why would anyone want to buy into the GOP program?

 

Now you are sounding like Bo-Bo. If all you got in your pocket going into 2012 are old worn out anti-Bush slogans, 2010's political jackbooted ass stomping is going to look like the tender kisses of foreplay.