Everything in this universe is happening by the will of God. It is only human beings who have been given a free will. Whether to submit to his will or to disobey Him.
Who is to ay that Humans are given any will at all, free or not. How do you know what you think as your free will, is actually just a nasty game on your God's part. Its just his will? Isn't it all that you say just your speculation? Something that you just believe?
It is only human being who have the ability to think and ponder over his creations. It is only human being who have the concept of good and evil. That is why it is only human beings who have been given the guidance from God. He sent to every nation a prophet from among them. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was the last prophet. There will be no more prophet because we have his book in unaltered form. It is the book of guidance for the entire humanity. It is now up to individual human beings whether to accept Him or to deny Him. You don't have to wait for long to see the results. You will get to know when you visit the grave. There will be no repentance at that time. You get only one chance to take this test of life. After death is only the result of what you earn in this life.
I'm sorry for attacking what you hold dear. What I really meant to do was just tell it the way I see it. There was no personal attack intended. I'll try to lighten the tone in the future as I seem to come off too strong. Cheers
Even a Dog has ability to think and decide whats good and bad for him.. And human can't decide whats good or evil, your good is evil for me, my good is evil for you.. How do you know god's play.. Even if I take your words for it, you only know what Mohammad supposedly said.. It wasn't God that spoken to you or anyone else..
I think an honest question would be, how do you decide which Holy book is the correct one? There are a number of Holy books, and the believers of each book seem to be dead set against any other than the one they choose. I think it's a little too late, once you're in the grave, to find out which one is right. That being said, which criteria do you use to prove one Holy book better suitable to live by than an another? Or rather, the one to follow that will get you to heaven?
Man, don't EVER worry what ApocalypseXL says, you just do what feels right to you. He's just upset (again) that we're a little smarter than he. He'll be jumpin up and down accusing you of all HIS faults no matter what you type so please continue without prejudice.
i don't mean to hijack this thread but riddle me this: when those that question what God does as contradictory and dismiss him based on not being "God-like", like being omnipotent and not caring, etc. Why don't you guys and gals consider that God does and doesn't do things because that's what he wants, that's how he wants it. It's God for crying out loud he can do or not do anything he wants.
It's not a contradiction. God is Omnipotent, and He has chosen to send those who disobey Him to hell. It does not mean God is not loving, He is in general, but He does not love those who disobey Him, hence puts them in an evil place (Hell.) And it's true that God can do whatever He wants, but He only does Godlike things, not things that do not befit His majesty, like transforming into man. Just like a richman would not beg on the streets because it does not befit him, God also doesn't do things that don't befit Him.
I appreciate your thoughts that, if there is a God, he's doing whatever he wants. The logic I brought up earlier still applies. What difference is murder, theft, what have you by man compared to by God? Does it still violate us, make us suffer loss, causes us grief? If it's not God's will for any man to go to hell, but being omnipotent and all knowing he created a world where such a thing was possible, then maybe it IS his will? The thing that always perplexed me was this: if God knows past, present and future, yet he gives us a choice to follow his plan, God is either not all knowing or he knew that people were going choose the other path and get thrown into hell. Why would a loving God do that? Because he can? I'm sorry, but using the defense that "he can do it because he's God" doesn't cut it. The question is, why would he want to do it, if he's so good and loving? And is that the kind of God you want to spend all eternity with? If he loves us and cares about us, he would make us feel loved and cared for. Aside from having no really convincing evidence that God exists, the whole belief system surrounding a supreme being (or beings) doesn't come together. You're a little quick to make an assumption for why only 2.5% of the world are Atheists. I'm sure you've heard this before, statistics are like bikinis, they show a lot but often not the really good parts. There are a lot of people who all believe in god that are fighting, killing and arguing against each other. If these people simply believed in a god of some kind, instead of putting their religions at the forefront, it would give your assumption a little more pull. People are more likely to grow up believing what they were taught in their youth, and unless those beliefs are personally challenged, they persist and are passed onto the next generation. That's why most people in the Middle East devoutly practice their religion, while people in the states have their dominant religions, and vary wherever you go in the world. What we can conclude from those stats is that 97.5% of the world's population: 1. Is indoctrinated with faulty beliefs throughout their early lives by people they trust. 2. Is pressured by society to believe in a higher power of some kind and that the alternative is to be an immoral Atheist outcast, who is incapable of discerning from right or wrong. 3. Haven't taken the time to really lay it all out on the table and question what they believe in. 4. Are closet Atheists who use the "belief in a greater cause" to mask their disbelief in social situations. If you don't believe me. Here are a few more questions to jog your mind: - Do most people seek the freedom of truth or social acceptance? - Do most people follow their emotions and personal delusions than what can be proven to others? - Do most people grow up keeping the fundamental beliefs society gave them or to turn on them? Do these people sound like intelligence outliers, or are they mostly believers by chance? (nature and nurture) There is not much of a correlation between intelligent people and beliefs about gods. Rather their need to fit in to society and be accepted. There are smart people who both believe in god and don't. It's just another area of study in life. Being a lawyer doesn't mean you know anything about brain surgery. You're only smart in the areas you've really given enough effort in learning something about, or at least questioning, pondering, etc. It's not enough to say, "the whole world believes in it, so it must be true." No thanks, I prefer to use my own mind. Despite all of this. Whether or not 97.5% believe in something doesn't mean I will neglect to try to find out what makes sense for me. If it doesn't make sense to me, does it really matter what the other 7 billion people in the world believe in? A thousand years ago, how many people believed the Earth was flat? Two hundred years ago, how many people believed it was crazy to wash your hands before undergoing a medical procedure, or before eating? 50%? 75%? 90%? or was it more like 99.99999%? Yes, thinking for yourself is a scary and sometimes lonely thing...
God knows past present and future. Yet you have freewill, there's no contradiction. As for why would a loving God put someone in hell? Same reason you would put a criminal in jail, it doesn't mean you are not loving. God's punishment is just more severe, don't disobey God, or else. This actually shows His Might and Power, and is not something that degrades Him at all. Doesn't come together for you, it's called confusion. I was just pointing out that Atheists are a small number of the population, and they have always been a minority through out time. And this shows that we as humans have a natural inclination to believe in God, except the small percentage that are deluded by their arrogance and pride, that's how I see it, you may disagree. Another thing I wanted to say that it's unfair to say that everyone is unable to use their brains except the small 2.5% Atheist elite, I see them do this all the time and it's getting a little old.
I know past, present and future. I'm also forgiving, and sometimes mean. Just like all the other Gods, if you commit a sin against me I am likely to be more lenient on you if are sincerely repentant. I'm God like that! Oh, and I can read your mind too...
I have to congratulate you, because myself too I'm an attheist but I haven't been exposed to religion by my parents, only my grand mother did made us (my brother and I) pray every nights when we were very small and she took care of us. But except from that couple of years, I haven't had religious "education" or brainwashing. So you have more merit now to have been able to educate yourself by using the internet resources, many people here on DP are still stuck with their retarded beliefs and they show no hope of ever coming back to reality, they like their imaginary friend too much and don't want to face the reality that is they've lost time with the myths that have been imposed on their then young and weak minds while they were kids and their brain was in training/developping. Have you watched this video series? I think you will relate to him: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/why-i-am-no-longer-a-christian/ Congrats for your own mental effort and ok you've lost the nice fairy tales, but life is still what it is and it's beautiful nonetheless even without this creator stuff, surely even more beautiful with more mystery, more unanswered questions, and at least there's no question of burning in hell
the concept of God is that he is over us and judging us. God can do anything he wants, but we supposedly have to live the way he wants us to based on what he wants. and coming from someone that can do or not do anything he wants just be glad that he gave us guidelines on how to live the way he wants us to live. you can choose to live like that or not but it's something. is it better to be safe than sorry? i choose to acknowledge that it is something of substance for some and based on numbers from this thread, 80%-90% of people on this planet are the "some" that i am referring to. check out the second link in my signature. its a you tube video. there is a line where the person says that someone he knows said "i don't believe in God but i'm afraid of him", deep huh? for archiving, if i change my signature, here is the video link:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnGo6Qm0Wt8&feature=feedrec_grec_index "if God knows past, present and future, yet he gives us a choice to follow his plan, God is either not all knowing or he knew that people were going choose the other path and get thrown into hell." perhaps God knows our choices and we are just going through the motions to appease him, with the concept of God being omnipotent, no need to be surprised. there a line from the movie "meet joe black" where the character anthony hopkins plays tells the character that brad pitt plays to "let the chips fall were they may" so live life and whatever happens, happens. "Why would a loving God do that? Because he can?" yes, God can do that "I'm sorry, but using the defense that "he can do it because he's God" doesn't cut it." yes it does cut it "The question is, why would he want to do it, if he's so good and loving?" to our gauging as humans he is so loving and so good and, according to the bible, can wipe out two cities like sodom and gommorrah because those living there were not appeasing him. "And is that the kind of God you want to spend all eternity with?" do we have a choice? if God exists then no, there is no choice. "If he loves us and cares about us, he would make us feel loved and cared for." if he wants to, he can. it's "his will be done" not our will. is there something perplexing to you about this now? you are saying how you would be if you were God or how you would want it to be if there is a God, when it is possible that there is a God already being God.  think of how you would be if you were God, now think how would jeffrey dahmer be if he were God. is God somewhere in the middle of that? don't be surprised.  or is God beyond this scope presented? don't be surprised. also, wonder about the argument about the existence of God by itself.  atheists say how can you prove that there is a God completely and the religious can say how can you prove that there is not a God completely. consider this: arguing about what is beyond a black hole, we don't know what is beyond it (a possible religious claim) but science can put forth there best guesses about what is beyond it (a possible athesit claim). see the tactic reversals for arguing with this topic compared with typical arguements about the existence of God?
Since God can do everything, then He can suck my ass.. Come on grow up people, you're hijacking someone's thread here. That someone has a brain and used it to overcome the brainwashing he's been submitted to at a young age, just like you probably. When you were young you did believe in Santa Claus, didn't you? It's the same with God, exactly the same lie, except that it doesn't stop. But it's the same crap for babies and retards.
curious if he jumped from one brainwashing to another brainwashing, going with how you put it. Â I have noticed what ApocalypseXL noticed also that atheists fight back with ad hominems commonly.
Why? Do you think it is still a matter of argumenting? What do you do with crazy people, do you argument with them or do you lock them into a mental hospital? Also, if someone calls a god believer a retard it's not an insult, it's calling a cat a cat. At this age, with available knowledge, sticking with believing in myths means someone really doesn't want to give up on the imaginary friend. So you don't argument with those people, you call them for what they are. If someone really want to open their eyes they can do it, this thread's author is an example, there are others. But people like you are counter exemples of people who want to stick with their beliefs, so be it, but don't expect any respect for your beliefs, they're fairy tales, for babies and retards, I won't say otherwise because saying otherwise would be lying to you..
i am not a bible thumper, but i think there is something to what 80%-90% of people consider.  it would be foolish to throw away what all that stuff is about and not try to refine it or understand it even if you do not accept it. i told this to stOx awhile ago that there is a line from the movie "Contact" where the person questioned another person's disagreements with God by saying something like "do you think that 90% of the world is delusional?" to be an athesit is to not be a theist, theist most likely accept God in some way.  but non atheists question atheists and that is what i'm doing not from a defending God angle but from wondering why throwing away all that stuff for better understanding?  and honestly i am wondering if atheism is for me also. is it to open one's eyes is to detach from religion? is it necessary to detach from a religion to open one's eyes? what i am is someone that considers that there is alot to this world and religion is part of it.  the same way a religious person completely disregards atheists is equally inappropriate as the way atheists completely disregard religious people. Â