i have a hatered for islam

"In between speaking in tongues (and prophecying the translations), attending faith healings (recipient of many), receiving visions of ecstacy and ignoring the relevance of the modern world in light of the coming Christ, I assure, you, I lived the life as much as you believe you do now. I simply conclude it was all a farce, while you do not. You will simply revert to calling me "Backslider," rather than asking some hard questions - which is of course your right."

Could be why you "backslid", you believed you were supposed to be doing all these things, because someone told you you should.
I don't speak in tongues, as a matter of fact, I had someone scream in my face "I rebuke you satin in the name of Jesus" during an argument once because I don't believe everyone should speak in tongues. I threw him out of my house.
I don't believe in instant faith healing on the stage of a church. I do believe faith can heal though. I can't stand Benny Hinn.
I touched a nerve I guess, I said Holy Spirit. I find when you say you are saved people assume automatically that you speak in tongues and follow a cult also.
My faith is not complicated by trying to do what others think I should do. It's very quite simple, my God made it simple for simple minded people like me to grasp.

 

You are leaping to everything but the obvious, suitsme. Forget what my church called "gifts" - none of these had any relationship to the crap spewn on TV, by Benny Hinn or others. The folks of the Assembly of God where I attended were as earnest in their beliefs as you proclaim to be now. Would you also judge them? Again, I ask, a simple question: who gave you the authority to judge anyone?

I simply lived the life, directly, from my experience of the Bible and my belief in salvation by grace. That you sit in judgement of Greatten (to the point of insults: "BoM - PBUH"), indeed, presumably, in judgement of anyone outside the narrow realm of your beliefs, speaks volumes to me of your lack of Christian life - at least the Christian life I lived, the life I modeled from readings from the same Bible you draw from now.

 

Matthew 7:21, Jesus says,

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father, which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

In this verse, Jesus does not say that a few misguided souls have a false hope of heaven. He says MANY. He is talking to people who think they are Christians. Nowadays there are a lot of people who say that they are Christians who will not enter heaven. These are people who think that they are going to make it in to glory on their lip service. But when they stand before the King and Judge, they will be rejected. When Jesus says "Depart" you can't appeal and try to get a second chance, you got to go. Included here? All those who choose to "worship" God according to their own beliefs and not God's word. This includes, cultists who claim a Jesus/gospel different from the Bible, e.g., Catholics, Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, Christian Scientists, hypocrites along with every Protestant denomination follower who puts their trust in their denomination, and church attendance.

To be a Christian, you must repent of your sins and believe on the Lord Jesus.

(PBUH) Was a bad joke, I'm sorry.

 

Wow! That's a whole lotta folks you've just judged worthy of damnation. God tell you this, did he/she/it? Can we say a big bummer for the many Catholics, Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, Christian Scientists who are undoubtedly members of this very forum, who practice their beliefs in good faith?

I used to preach the very quotes you cut and paste. All the best, suitsme - I'm sure you'll get the e-ticket to Heaven.

 

No. We're all worthy of damnation. Nobody was judged except by the law. The above mentioned religions cause people to go to hell because they cause people to reject God's free gift of salvation. There are people of all faiths who will end up in hell. And people of all faiths who will end up in heaven despite their religion.

It doesn't matter how much faith you put in a rock, it's not going to save you when you use it as a parachute.

Those who preach false gospels are destined for torment (although even they can be saved). Those who follow the false teachers will undoubtably be shown grace. But in the end you should use your own brain to make sure what you're being told is true.

It's very simple: do you trust in your own works to get you to heaven?

It doesn't matter what religion you are, if you say "yes" you're rejecting God. If you say no, then there's hope for you.

 

I guess I am writing something that I didn't... I didn't say anyone was ignorant of wanting of study. You did try to say that I would be by saying you had read the Bible by 14 more than I have in my life. nough said on that - maybe you misunderstood me. done

I think I misunderstood you. You said that we shouldn't be waiting for. I say would should be watching out for. I agree that no one know the time, it says that in the Bible. We see those who have tried to set the dates and have proven themselves wrong. False prophets in my opinion, since their prophesy was false.

Preaching the end times is part of the Bible and shouldn't be left out. But just like anything, it needs to be in context, and with balance. The end times preaching is more for the Christian for hope. The gospels are for those who don't yet know Christ.

I sense you still have belief in Christ, but that something has you questioning or wondering. You have book knowledge of who He says He is but your not sure if it is true. You know how it goes - either he was/is who his says He was/is, or He is a liar or lunatic.

 

This is all I was referring to.

Debunked - I no longer have any doubts. nor do I believe in the divinity of Christ. The entire concept - of a jealous deity, demanding blood sacrifice to "save" fallen mankind, is wholly alien to everything I now believe. But I lived the life, effectively, as a missionary, passionately, concretely "saved again" and simply came to other conclusions as time moved on. Respectfully, I conclude other than what you conclude.

 

That's interesting.
Can you explain a bit more about the blood issue.

I know that blood is a major issue in almost every religion.
The scripture says that the soul is in the blood.
The Jews have their kosher food among other teachings of blood.
Hindu/Brahmans/Sharmans slaughter animals to have the blood absorbing illness etc..
Christians shall remember all the time by drinking the wine(grape juice) that Jesus has shed his blood for us in order to start the New Testament age.

It would be great if you could elaborate on this.

Thanks
Arnie

 

Arnie, here's my thoughts.

This notion of an omnipresent, eternal, omniscient being, Jehovah (or what you will), nevertheless demanding for the salvation of humankind a blood sacrifice to expunge some primordial sin is nothing more than our human duality cast into the image of God - in other words, the precise opposite of what the Bible holds ("we are made in the image of God). Or, to quote Voltaire, "if God did not exist, it would have been necessary for Man to invent him."

That most religions share this - whether the Aztec Sacred Blood sacrifice of the King ( an excruciating ritual that belies the Mel Brook line, "it's good to be the king"), the Celtic ritual murder of the king (whose blood, cast upon a rood, is sprinkled on new croplands to bless the upcoming harvest), or other religions (to my knowledge, there isn't a tradition of such sacrifice in Hinduism) - only affirms for me the anthropology of it, the human-based need to pay fpr some presumed sin, or gain some favor for some need, by looking elsewhere. In other words, duality - myself, and Deity, Deity that lies elsewhere (Sky God/Zeus/Jehovah, or Mother Earth; either way, outside oneself).

Though I no longer practice as I once did, I accept the psychology that Buddha once worked out for himself. Salvation lies within, and it is achieved by one's own efforts - not grace from without.

Turning specifically to the Bible, meaning no disrespect to the sensibilities of Christians, I find it especially difficult to accept the notion of a loving, forgiving and perfect God who is nevertheless wholly jealous, demanding constant re-affirmation of the love of "his children" by blood sacrifice, whether Abram's blade, or Christ's cross (though acknowledging the purpose of Christ's cross was the opposite direction - God's love for humankind - it still belies the notion of a perfect entity; one that nevertheless cannot forgive without blood, death, and pain).

 

It is nice to see that some people do not only grow in age but also mentally.

 

Northpointaiki Rocks!

 

"Though I no longer practice as I once did, I accept the psychology that Buddha once worked out for himself. Salvation lies within, and it is achieved by one's own efforts - not grace from without. "

Well keep us informed on how your self guided road to perfection is working out for you.

Many people reject God's free salvation because they think they can handle the burden by themselves. Martin Luther took on the burden himself as a Catholic and after reading the Bible realized it was okay that he was a miserable sinner. Paul was the chief of sinners (God came to save sinners of whom he was chief) and he was saved. It was a huge burden off of him to realize all the work was done.

If you think you can get into heaven on your own, good luck.

 

No, thank you. My journey seems to be offensive to you, on the face of it. Nevertheless, this is my journey, and I don't feel the need to preach to anybody. I have enough to work on myself.

 

It's not offensive. Just sad that salvation was handed to you and you rejected it. But anyway let's assume that salvation is from within and you can do it yourself.

Can you give us a checklist of everything you must do in order to be saved? It'd be interesting to see what it takes to be saved as a Buddhist.

 

No, I can't give a checklist, because it isn't a set of skills or items to accumulate, like a gift-bag. And I have no answers. I have had flashes of something - some sense of how ludicrous it is for me to feel I am something immutable, separate and distinct from everything else - but these flashes have themselves become a leaden grab bag to hold on to while drowning.

I rather think my grandfather in law - an atheist - has it right. He has lived on his 40 acres for almost 60 years, now, and can tell you the minutae of every creature and plant on his land - though he professes no religion, I see the love he has for the smallest bug, for the bass in his pond, for a particular, aged birch deep in his woods, and I catch some glimmer of what it is to belong.

 

Thank you for the good luck wish, but I really don't believe it is sincere, and I don't ask nor need your approbation.

I will respond now to your edit. What I find odd about the notion of salvation, as embodied in the Christian concept of heaven, is again this notion of duality, some payoff granted by a jealous, vengeful god - merciful to those who accept his blood sacrifice, merciless to those who do not. It's all so anthropomorphic.

Heaven, or hell, is right here, now - this very moment. How I deal with the nearly limitless moments that pass through my life - each moment as important, and as meaningless, as the next - is, to me, vastly more important than some payoff later on. If I accede to the present, with no grudges or recalcitrance, I live well, and pass into death happily, willingly, and full of joy. This is my salvation, to put it in your term.

Interesting sidenote, presuming the story of the Bible as truth: Paul was a Roman, and a Jew, follower of both Mosaic and Roman civil law. He did not have the benefit of knowing Christ as a human, as his Apostles did. Romans, and sequella, smacks to me of the ascendancy of Pauline interpretations over some other organizational structure. I wonder what would have happened had Paul never come along.

Martin Luther, by the way, fully believed he was simply fulfilling the Catholic mission. He also wrote of exterminating the peasant hordes, and other lesser known, and less tasteful, points of views. Why don't we all just attend to our personal views, and live, and die, on our own?

 

So your goal is to just die happy?

How will you answer to God as to why you should be allowed into heaven?

 

KalvinB - I do not subscribe to your belief in a deity, nor some place known as "heaven" outside of this mortal coil. My "goal" is to live, and die, equally well.

 

So how does one live well?

 

I really have no idea. I know I feel ridiculous when I crave something I can't have, or otherwise try to stop a river with a sieve; then I laugh, as this whole thing is pretty funny.