@GWorld: Hahaha: I'm happy to answer your direct questions. But first a comment. You and Mia are on the same side here arguing the same point. What is going on? You both drinking from the same dumb koolaid? Is it spreading? Gworld: The reason I'm not going on about the conditions of workers around the world is that I Choose not to!!!! Its that simple. Long ago I engaged in serious political stuff. I don't do it anymore. I support America. I support things that make America strong. For its many many flaws its still a better nation than most. Despite the fact that an ultra radical extremist threatening Right Wing is threatening to take the government into insolvency I still believe in America. BTW: The ultra right wing American extremists are as bad, destructive and problematic as any extremists anywhere. Haven't been to Asia. I read a lot, but haven't seen conditions there. I know there are brutal conditions on workers there as with so many parts of the world. Its everywhere. I don't deny it. It invariably means the money flows out of the pockets of the many into the hands of a select powerful few. The powerful few abuse the masses and hold onto power as long as they can. Ultimately people get sick of it. Then they revolt. Hence the uprisings throughout the mideast right now. Nowhere is perfect. No idealogy works perfectly. Meanwhile I'm more interested in the conditions of the workers in Danville than in the rest of the world. You have plenty of energy. you run around and try and help workers in Vietnam and Pakistan as you referenced above. I don't have a problem with that. Also I seriously doubt there will be a "global capitalism" as you described with folks from different nations working as one. Everyone has their own self interests. These days the Chinese are exercising their muscles everywhere. The rest of the world is having an increasingly hard time dealing with Chinese trying to muscle their way everywhere and squeezing out everyone else's efforts to get a piece of the pie. But seriously I'd be careful about the koolaid your drinking.
Mia has never posted anything remotely sensible in his life. What I am posting is very different than his usual rants about employer should make profit. I am talking about global trend in Capitalism that requires workers divided n different geographical areas (countries) to have a similar standard of living so the capitalists in that country can compete with other capitalists in other countries. If you don´t see global capitalism then you must be blind, what do you think EU or NAFTA is? We are moving toward globalization of capital and nothing can stop it since it is in the nature of the beast. Your idea of only caring about American workers reminds me of romantic socialists in 18th century that wanted to implement socialism in one city or one community which totally failed as Marx explained that it was impossible. In same way your idea of limited capitalism in USA is impossible. You need to walk out of your little USA and enter the world of globalization and global capital.
So what you are saying is "unfair and abusive" is paying someone a rate which is commensurate with their skill level and experience, e.g. $8/hr... ,Mmm_K...
I am a fair person and therefore I like to offer you an employment contract for $.50/hr which commensurate with your skill, experience and most importantly intelligence level.
Kind of a delayed response, but I just wanted to say, "No, I haven't." Of course, you're right about Walmart. Here's Walmart, IKEA, and several others listed in The Sweatshop Hall of Shame:
It is the nature of the beast. Capitalists need lower labor cost in real term in order to compete---> In order to lower labor cost without totally lowering the workers standard of living, they need to provide the workers with cheaper products----->in order to produce cheaper products they will need a lower labor cost, and so the circle continues going around and around.
Consumers are not always looking for the cheapest, many times yes, but quality is important. For example, with furniture, some people don't want the kind made out of particle board. They want it made by a highly skilled worker, with quality materials - And, are happy to pay a much higher price tag because they know it will last. The company focusing on quality goods may still try to find the least expensive skilled worker to employ. However, that worker will probably have more options, and will be more difficult to exploit. Or, a company with a high regard for quality may consider talent as the most important. In addition, trying to manufacture items at low prices doesn't necessarily have to result in rock bottom wages. Here's what could happen at IKEA (Of course, I'm just making up all these numbers): Lets say a worker can manufacture one XYZ gadget every hour, and it's normally sold for $25 at the IKEA store. This worker is only making $8 an hour, working in an unsafe environment, and is treated with disrespect. The item is sold at $25, worker makes $8, and company expenses are $10...So, the profit on each XYZ gadget is $7 for each one sold. This employee is unhappy because of his wage, and working conditions. He's not very loyal to the company, and doesn't care if they go belly up. He doesn't work any harder than he has to. In addition, workers are always quitting and the company loses a great deal of money on turnover (with all the re-hiring and training). Not only that, many consumers are disgusted by the way the company treats workers, which is resulting in lower sales. The company soon realizes that company expenses may go down to $9.00 (instead of $10) if they pay the worker $10 and hour. This would be due to the workers having greater motivation, and less turnover and new hire training. They mark up the item to $26.00 to make up for the $1 difference. The customers hardly notice the price increase. So, the company didn't really lose any money while having happier workers, increased employee retention, and better public relations. At this point all the workers are a little taken aback by their $2 an hour raise, they're not complaining as much. The company lets go of the overpriced, thousands of dollars a day law firm and settles for a regular attorney. They take these savings, and allow all the workers demerit free bathroom breaks and weekly pizza parties. They announce to the workers they will start addressing safety concerns immediately, and ask for workers participation in reporting them. The company decides they will take 1% of all profits to ensure factory safety. In actuality, they come out even, as they save money on missed time off work, workers comp, and possible lawsuits. Or, maybe they don't, not really sure - but they should do it anyway! lol. The company also realizes treating people with respect is really not that expensive. They implement better manufacturing planning, so that workers will not be told Friday, that they have to come in Saturday. They handout brochures to workers, and memos to supervisors that discrimination will not be tolerated, along with instructions on how to report it. The company hasn't really lost much in profits, but has gained a great deal. Of course, $10 an hour still isn't much. They will need to give regular wage increases, but that's just the cost of doing business and keeping employees happy. They make plenty of profit, and definitely should share more of it with workers.
There's no circle here. The problem in the US is organized labor which has driven costs up on goods, services, transportation and just about everything else the consumer consumes today. Remove that, and the costs of goods and services goes WAY down. Lower labor costs does not translate into lowering a workers standard of living. What it does is actually encourages workers to produce more, work harder and achieve more in terms of position and earnings based on merit, not what the union dictates. A fair wage to a good work force will produce better goods at a lower cost. Paying someone more to work less produces less goods at a lower quality. Give someone the chance to give that extra inch and they will. Workers who know they harder the work the more they will earn take far more pride in their work than those that are asked to do the bare minimum.
Americans this generation are lazy compared to 30 years ago. They deserve the minimum wage or lower. Reason some companies hire foreigners as locals complain too much.
Not all American's are lazy. Some are able to maintain 3 different accounts on the same internet forum.
The role of gov't in legislative guidelines, enforcement and regulations is what is lacking in employer - employee mandates and likewise the influence of immigration on the workforce the gov't fails to control.
Quite simply government has no role in business whatsoever. Government's only role is to protect, uphold and defend our constitution. Short of that their job is to stay the fuck out of our way so we can produce. Regulations, mandates and the attempt to influence or control kills productivity and is bad for business, growth and job creation.
Higher than what specifically? You do realize that America has some of the best working conditions of any industrialized nation. In fact the US was the first industrialized nation to reduce working times. I'm assuming you're talking about China?
The bit I see missing in your scenario Rebecca is that Walmart (or any of the big suppliers, only Coles & Woolworths here) comes along and orders 4 million units but wants them at $22, not $26... do they take the order when Walmart can import from China's IKEA at $21 if they don't accept?
It's a fact that factory workers in Swedwood plants in Sweden are treated far better than their American counterparts. According to the media, "Ikea is taking advantage of the weaker protections afforded to U.S. workers." If you look at it, what other explanation is there? Some companies are completely lacking in ethics, and will try to get away with whatever they can. That bit may have been missing because I don't believe they're a supplier for cheap retailers (Walmart, Coles, Woolworth's), they are a cheap retailer, and sell directly to the end consumer. That's what the IKEA stores are for. I kind of doubt Walmart execs are shopping at IKEA (US or China) for items they can resell. To the haters in this thread : I haven't a clue as to why anyone would object to the Danville workers trying to improve the working conditions. Why is this thread even controversial? lol.
Mia: Quite simply government has no role in business whatsoever. Well Mia, the responsibility granted to the new Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is what the gov't is able to accomplish when guided by fair play and equality for all its citizens.
This is another prime example of extremism at its worst. Which national economy has grown the most over the last 20 years? By a lot. It dwarfs every other nation with regard to average year over year economic growth. Its China. The Chinese government has enormous impact on most of the Chinese economy. Its a very different model. It clearly been working. In terms of Productivity, business, growth, and job creation it has outperformed the US economy by an enormous amount. Mia's perspective is an extremist perspective. It simply doesn't work. (unless your eyes are 100% shut)