Religion, what it should be? What is religion?

Religion, what it should be?
What is religion?
According to the master Beinsa Douno, religion is an expression of the human spirit. - It is created by man. Religion is not created by God. People created the religion. Religion this is a set of rules and norms which people have created for centuries. If we come to the religion, there is something else that is Divine in it and that is Love, Wisdom, and Truth. Consequently a religion without Love, Wisdom, and Truth is a dead shell............ We understand the religion in its broad meaning as Christ has preached it - with right relations between people, and right relations between people and God..... (Remember Jesus commandment "Love one another." and "Love God with all your heart, soul, mind and strenght.)

I know everyone has his own understanding, and I expect as usual some people will come and throw insults or leave their trash, but there will be also people willing to reason and learn.

The time has come for the world to give some true Definiton of the word "religion" and what it should be.

I just came accross Swami Vivekananda writings on Religion and Reason. Here is wha he says:

#. Why religions should claim that they are not bound to abide by the standpoint of reason, no one knows. If one does not take the standard of reason there cannot be any true judgement, even in the case of religions. One religion may ordain something very hideous. For instance, the Mohammedan religion allows Mohammedans to kill all who are not of their religion. It is clearly stated in the Koran, "Kill the infidels if they do not become Mohammedans". They must be put to fire and sword. Now if we tell a Mohammedan that this is wrong, he will naturally ask: "How do you know that? How do you know it is not good? My book says it is." If you say your book is older, there will come the Buddhist, and say, his book is much older still. Then will come the Hindu, and say, his books are the oldest of all. Therefore referring to books will not do. Where is the standard by which you can compare? You will say, look at the Sermon on the Mount, and the Mohammedan will reply, look at the Ethics of the Koran. The Mohammedan will say, who is the arbiter as to which is the better of the two? Neither the New Testament nor the Koran can be the arbiter in a quarrel between them. There must be some independent authority, and that cannot be any book, but something which is universal; and what is more universal than reason? It has been said that reason is not strong enough; it does not always help us to get the Truth; many times it makes mistakes, and therefore the conclusion is that we must believe the authority of a church! That was said to me by a Roman Catholic, but I could not see the logic of it. On the other hand I should say, if reason be so weak, a body of priests would be weaker, and I am not going to accept their verdict but I will abide by my reason, because with all its weakness there is some chance of my getting at truth through it; while by the other means there is no hope at all.

http://www.greenmesg.org/swami_vivekananda_sayings_quotes/religion-religion_and_reason.php

 

There is at least one believer in Mohammed in this forum who should tell us what is the interpretation of the above verse about "killing the infidels"? I would like to hear his logic here. He was analyzing Christ conversations now since he is a muslim he should be even more ready to explain that verse in the Quran. Is that verse true or not?

The true masters in the world clearly state: True religion is about Love, brotherhood, and sisterhood. Are there any religions that consider the followers of other religions "second class" people? Don't you think the world must get rid off the old hateful ideas, Ideas that bring no good to humanity, ideas that put us to fight one another?

 

Where can I find this in the Quran?

 

I don't like to deal with this kind of stuff because it may hurt somebody's feelings. You can google it it yourself and you'll find a lot of info.

http://www.powerofaith.com/blog/blog1.php/2008/07/24/infidel

 

There are some questions for which man doesn't have answers.

Till he finds the real answers, he uses his imagination to answer those questions.

Religion is nothing but just another manifestation of man's imagination.

 

I think that religion is something that people were doing when God was on his vacations. And to my opinion they like to do it even now and for many of them it's an eternal activity.

 

Swami vivekanand was a great man.

 

Religion is for weak people who can't cope with reality, it's comforting for them.

Of course, they're welcome to prove me wrong by providing any kind of evidence that they're right and I'm wrong... I won't hold my breath though, Christianity has had 2000 years to come up some evidence and still failed miserably, so they invented 'faith' to explain it away, you don't need evidence if you have faith... LOL.

 

Cool down boy. Religion does not say live in dreams and chant prayers if you get some diesease.

 

I'll cool down when religion stops causing mysery, suffering, torture, hardship and repression all over the world, when it stops causing ignorance and the hindering of our progress. People are still being stoned to death because of religion.

This is not a subject where religious people have a 'get out of jail free' card on whether or not their feelings get hurt. I don't care if I offend people, maybe it will make them actually question how they came to their beliefs and realise that in most cases it was urged on them as young children. You're a christian? Chances are you grew up in a christian country or had christian parents... can you figure out the implications of that?

 

The time begins with ones birth to exit at the Apex of Life from ones physical presence to the life of the Everlasting when properly Defined.

 

Can you tell me where is this happening except from muslim countries. I am not a christian but a hindu and my religion was the reason 5 centuries ago my country was the richest before invaders came and looted everything and just like ny other religion it does not promote violence. You are free to point out any flaws in my religion.

 

No such verse.

You are doing the old cutting and pasting from an Islamophic website, then when you are asked to provide references you tell me to google it..lol..ive come across many of your likes.

If you don't like to deal with this kind of "stuff" then don't ask me to interpret something for you.

Thank you, bye.

 

I tried to find that verse, but came accross some other stuff..


190 And fight in the Way of Allah those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allah likes not the transgressors. [This Verse is the first one that was revealed in connection with Jihad, but it was supplemented by another (9:36)].
191 And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-Al-Haram (the sanctuary at Makkah), unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. 192 But if they cease, then Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
193 And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allah) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allah (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zalimun (the polytheists, and wrong-doers)

............
2) Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah. except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #28)


6) Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority: their abode will be the Fire: And evil is the home of the wrong-doers!
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #151)

....

Where is the message of Love - Love all people including unbelievers and enemies?
I can't say anything about the verse that Swami Vivekanda talks about, untill I find the proof it exists. But the above verses (plus many others I found) don't sound uplifthing to me. (There are a lot of calls for figt even if in self defense Masters disagree on the "eye for an eye" rule. Since it will bring more and more violence.
.............

 

Swami Vivekanda (whoever this is) lied to you, there is no such verse.

And you call this a "true master"? A liar is a true master? What is a master anyway? LOL.

This is hilarious.

And we don't call ourselves "Mohameddans" this is a term used by westerners centuries ago, who thought we worship Muhammad (peace be upon him).

Now that this is out the way, you may ask me another question if you will, just 1, not a loaded one.

 

Did you read the verses post #14?
Plus this one. I don't want to put here everything that I've read. Mohammad is very, very hostile to the "unbelievers". He wants to instilll terror into their hearts.
Well, my religion is about instilling Love into the hearts of each and everyone, believer unbeliever, young and old... I don't see this in Islam. Wish all the best to the muslims though.

26) Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them." ( سورة الأنفال , Al-Anfal, Chapter #8, Verse #12)

 

I told you to ask 1 question, unfortunately you are asking me to explain 3-4 verses, and on top of that I have to reply to your numerous assumptions, you wasted your opportunity.

It seems you are trying to debate with me, which is really stupid because you don't even know your own religion to begin with, let alone mine.

Your thread once again is a failure.

And I don't need your wishes...we are doing just fine..growing as usual.

Thank you, Bye.




EDIT:

I thought it would be fun to do the same as you did:

Jesus of the bible wants to kill children:

So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds. (From the NIV Bible, Revelation 2:22-23)"

Jesus of the bible asking others to buy a sword, and if you don't have one, just sell your cloak!:

"He said to them, 'But now if you have a purse, take it and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. (Luke 22:36)"

God of the bible order to kill children:

"Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. Samuel 15 31:17

Jesus of the bible wants to kill his enemies:

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. - Luke 19:27

God of the bible punished pregnant women by ripping them up with swords:

The people of Samaria must bear the consequences of their guilt because they rebelled against their God. They will be killed by an invading army, their little ones dashed to death against the ground, their pregnant women ripped open by swords. - "Hosea 13:16 (New Living Translation)



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Little did you know that 2 can play this game.

 

The very point Swami Vivekananda was making that reason not text will lead to truth and judgment does seem the proper guidance for the above posts.

 

I didn't have time to look for all of the verses you gave, but thank you for pointing them out. I never looked at them as a call for violence since many of them are parables. Jesus never gave orders for anybody to be killed. Not even a single person was killed on orders of Christ. Jesus used a lot of symbolic langugage, so the swords that you mention above and actally Jesus said: .... two swords are enough....
I understand you are upset but Christianity is a deep Divine Science. It has a lot to do with how you interprete the scriptures. One Should Never forget the Fundamental Laws in Christianity - "Love one another. Love your neighbor like yourself. Love your enemy. Love your God with all your mind, heart, soul and strenght."

Here are some of the answers.

Jesus says to the disciples to buy swords, but when they show him two, Jesus says the two are enough. The first direction, the literal one, is inadequate for two reasons.

First, the obvious question is: two swords are enough for what? Are they enough for a physical fight to resist arrest? This is hardly the case because during Jesus’ arrest a disciple (Peter according to John 18:10) took out his sword and cut off the ear of the servant (Malchus according to John 18:10) of the high priest. Jesus sternly tells Peter to put away his sword, "No more of this!" and then he heals the servant, restoring his ear (Luke 22:49-51). Resisting arrest cannot be the purpose of the two swords.

Second, were the two swords enough for an armed rebellion to resist the authorities and to impose the new Jesus movement in a political and military way? Jesus denounces this purpose in Luke 22:52, as the authorities are in the process of arresting him: "Am I leading a rebellion that you have come with swords and clubs?" The answer is no, as he is seized and led away (v. 54).

So the physical interpretation of Luke 22:36 (the two swords were intended to be used) will not work in the larger context. Two swords are not enough to resist arrest, to pull off a revolt of some kind, or to fully protect themselves in the Garden of Gethsemane.



Luke 19:27

That particular passage was in fact part of a parable of a rich man who was speaking of his servants. He had given them gold to keep until his return from a distant land and was talking about his return and how 2 of the servants had invested the gold and increased it and the 3rd had not. This is not Jesus talking of how to treat people who believe not in him.
In fact he said to simply shake the dust from your feet of the places where people will not listen to the teachings. Never did he say to kill them.

".... The Parable of the Ten Minas
11As they heard these things, he proceeded to tell a parable, because he was near to Jerusalem, and because(L) they supposed that the kingdom of God was to appear immediately. 12He said therefore, (M) "A nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and then return. 13Calling(N) ten of his servants,[a] he gave them ten minas, and said to them, 'Engage in business(O) until I come.' 14But(P) his citizens hated him and sent a delegation after him, saying, 'We do not want this man to reign over us.' 15When he returned, having received the kingdom, he ordered these servants to whom he had given the money to be called to him, that he might know what they had gained by doing business. 16The first came before him, saying, 'Lord, your mina has made ten minas more.' 17And he said to him, 'Well done, good servant![c] Because you have been(Q) faithful in a very little,(R) you shall have authority over ten cities.' 18And the second came, saying, 'Lord, your mina has made five minas.' 19And he said to him, 'And you are to be over five cities.' 20Then another came, saying, 'Lord, here is your mina, which I kept laid away in(S) a handkerchief; 21for I was afraid of you, because you are(T) a severe man. You take(U) what you did not deposit, and reap what you did not sow.' 22He said to him,(V) 'I will condemn you with your own words,(W) you wicked servant! You knew that I was(X) a severe man, taking what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow? 23Why then did you not put my money in the bank, and at my coming I might have collected it with interest?' 24And he said to those who stood by, 'Take the mina from him, and give it to the one who has the ten minas.' 25And they said to him, 'Lord, he has ten minas!' 26'I tell you that(Y) to everyone who has, more will be given, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 27But(Z) as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and(AA) slaughter them before me.'"

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+19&version=ESV

Christianity is a deep Divine Science of Love, Wisdom, and Truth.

 

GENESIS 3:1-2

THE FALL

3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made.
He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You [1] shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” 2 And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, (ESV)
FOOTNOTES

[1] 3:1 In Hebrew you is plural in verses 1-5



NICE JOB WOMAN DONT EAT THE FRUIT IF THE SERPENT SAID IT!!!