i have a hatered for islam

When CNN airs Al-Qaeda or any groups "propaganda", it only proves makes Bush say "See, I was right with the war. Look at these guys.. look at their plans..they deserve to be attacked". Do you think it will actually entice muslims to go and contact the guys sitting in those caves?. Those announcements work more for the government than the terrorists.

 

Trust me, CNN is on your side on this one

It's "be kind to a terrorist" month on CNN right now

Muslims are never going to turn their back on each other when it comes to jihad and fighting the infidels. Let's not pretend they would, ok? We both know.

As much as I despise islam and every thing it stands for and the misery it brings to the world, the one thing I do admire about it, is muslims stick together. In their minds, they are always better and above the infidel and even if a muslim is lying, another will stand behind him. That's loyalty. I admire loyalty, even when found in the things I despise the most.

In many ways, it's reflective of what one of America's most famous Founding Fathers wrote, when he said:

We must all stick together or we shall certainly hang separately. - Ben Franklin

I wish Ben could be here to give a pep talk to liberals.

 

The BBC is just a little bit to the left of Al Jazeera.

BBC Bias
BBC Islamic Cringers

And they don't deny it:

We are biased, admit the stars of BBC News

Is that why they are blowing up cafes and murdering the entire staffs of computer stores? Is that why they kidnap and murder people in the night?

No, it's because they are intolerant Islamists who cannot allow anyone to live who does not think exactly as they do.

Tell me, are you a Sunni or a Shiite?

 

Who said that there are some muslims against Jihad? There is absolutely no separate arguments when it comes Jihad. All muslims are with Jihad as Jihad is part of Islam. I agree with you on that but what you really need to find out is the real meaning of Jihad and not just interpret what it is from the way some terrorists shout it out on TV before slicing some guy or how some bloggers misinterpret and misquote from it. My misquoting and misinterpreting I mean how how many people now a days use one sentence from Quran to make it look bad. For example, anyone can quote "kill infedils" from Quran but if you read rest of the details you would know what it actually means. Here is a classic example and I highly suggest you read it: http://www.discovervancouver.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=29247

Jihad literally means "struggle". It is an uprising against the oppression. Jihad is not to go to kill your own people (which Iraq is obviously not doing) or even to kill people in other countries. If you go to another country and break their rule (killing people there obviously does).. then you are against what Islam preaches.. and although your real intention was pure, you w. It does not at all mean 'terrorize' or to kill innocent people or Christians or any other religion followers. Islam believes in peaceful co-existence and believe it or not, it is clearly mentioned that if God did not want any other religion to exist.. Islam would have started with Adam and we would not be having this conversation right now.

As much as I despise islam and every thing it stands for and the misery it brings to the world, the one thing I do admire about it, is muslims stick together. In their minds, they are always better and above the infidel and even if a muslim is lying, another will stand behind him. That's loyalty. I admire loyalty, even when found in the things I despise the most.

In many ways, it's reflective of what one of America's most famous Founding Fathers wrote, when he said:

We must all stick together or we shall certainly hang separately. - Ben Franklin

I wish Ben could be here to give a pep talk to liberals.[/QUOTE]

 

Ok, what do all these verses mean then?

2:191, And slay them wherever ye catch them

2:193, And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression

2:216, Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you

3:28, Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah

4:48 “Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.”

4:84, Then fight in Allah’s cause - Thou art held responsible only for thyself - and rouse the believers. It may be that Allah will restrain the fury of the Unbelievers; for Allah is the strongest in might and in punish ment.

4:141, And never will Allah grant to the unbelievers a way (to triumphs) over the believers

5:33, The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

8:12, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

8:15-16, O ye who believe! when ye meet the Unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them. If any do turn his back to them on such a day - unless it be in a stratagem of war, or to retreat to a troop (of his own)- he draws on himself the wrath of Allah, and his abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed)!

8:17, It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah: when thou threwest (a handful of dust), it was not thy act, but Allah’s: in order that He might test the Believers by a gracious trial from Himself

8:60, Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly.

8:65, O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers

9:5, But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem.

9:3, And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,- that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.

9:14, Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers,

9:23, O ye who believe! take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love infidelity above Faith: if any of you do so, they do wrong.

9:28, O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque.

9:29, Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

9:39, Unless ye go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least.

9:73, O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.

9:111, Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur’an

9:123, O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.

22:9, (Disdainfully) bending his side, in order to lead (men) astray from the Path of Allah: for him there is disgrace in this life, and on the Day of Judgment We shall make him taste the Penalty of burning (Fire).

22:19-22; These two antagonists dispute with each other about their Lord: But those who deny (their Lord),- for them will be cut out a garment of Fire: over their heads will be poured out boiling water. With it will be scalded what is within their bodies, as well as (their) skins. In addition there will be maces of iron (to punish) them. Every time they wish to get away therefrom, from anguish, they will be forced back therein, and (it will be said), “Taste ye the Penalty of Burning!”

25:52, So obey not the disbelievers, but strive against them herewith with a great endeavour.

25:68 ”Those who invoke not, with Allah, any other god, nor slay such life as Allah has made sacred except for just cause, nor commit fornication; - and any that does this (not only) meets punishment. “(But) the Penalty on the Day of Judgment will be doubled to him, and he will dwell therein in ignominy,-

37:22-23, “Bring ye up”, it shall be said, “The wrong-doers and their wives, and the things they worshipped- Besides Allah, and lead them to the Way to the (Fierce) Fire!

47:4, Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens.

48:13 And if any believe not in Allah and His Messenger, We have prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire!

48:29, Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other.

Why so much about "struggle"?

Mix these with children who have no education except to memorise the Quran, what do you get? Terrorists!

 

islam exposes the meaning of jihad every day. It is not "I" that needs to know your version of the truth, it is your brothers in islam that do. Convincing me isn't going to solve the problems of death and destruction that islam brings to the world. You need to convince your brothers of the new meaning of jihad.

I suspect that after 1400 years, the new meaning of jihad isn't a closely guarded secret on a forum (the link you reference). If I want to know "the cause of Allah" (killing non-believers), I need only reference the quran.

Your scriptures say otherwise. islam didn't start with Adam, it was invented some 600 years after Christ died on the cross to save your soul.

The scriptures are quite clear. They don't require fluff nor do they require some mythical special power to interpret. They are what they are.

 

I am no big fan of Christianity, but it definitely does require a whole lot less spin than Islam.

Muhammad (peanut butter upon him) was a warlord, a thief, a murderer, a child molester, a rapist, and a terrorist.

Jesus didn't harm anyone but himself. I can't agree with the philosophy that Jesus espoused, but Jesus was definitely a better person than Muhammad (peanut butter upon him).

 

"I am no big fan of Christianity, but it definitely does require a whole lot less spin than Islam.

Muhammad (peanut butter upon him) was a warlord, a thief, a murderer, a child molester, a rapist, and a terrorist.

Jesus didn't harm anyone but himself. I can't agree with the philosophy that Jesus espoused, but Jesus was definitely a better person than Muhammad (peanut butter upon him)."
__________________





The philosophies that Jesus espoused:

Peace
Love
Forgiveness


With which one of those philosophies do you take issue?



The Quran is not difficult to understand; and I'm not going to rely on someone else to tell me about it. If I cannot pick up the Quran and read it for myself, then I have no use for it. If it were God's message to mankind, then mankind could each read it and understand it. If I have to learn another language to understand it then it obviously isn't from God in the first place.

And I have read the Quran, which is where most of my knowledge comes from. And from talking to other Muslims, from reading books about Islam and from simply WATCHING what happens in the world around me. Islam is not difficult to understand; however, it is difficult to justify.

 

Look what Jesus said, "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well." Matthew 5:38-40

Jesus wanted us to rely on God for redress, because under the new Covenant, there was no need to seek after our own interests. "It is mine to avenge; I will repay."

We are to emulate Jesus, who did not repay in kind, but forgave those who crucified him. And unfortunately, the Muslims do not emulate Christ and therefore do not heed His words. Mohammad engaged in 60 war campaigns, while Jesus fought no wars. Mohammad and his subsequent followers forced their new religion on the world at the point of a sword and still do. Jesus did not resist even being beaten, arrested and crucified. And if you follow the news closely and even read many of the posts here, you will see that Muslims earnestly practice and eye or an eye. How many Muslims have had their hands removed for stealing? How many women have been stoned for adultery? How many Muslims have been imprisoned for rejecting Islam? Untold numbers. Did you hear of the 17 year old girl in Africa who was beaten for having a child out of wedlock, a child concieved in rape that she was unable to "prove" because she didn't have the "proper witnesses". Recently, a 37 year old mother of two in Iran was sentenced to be stoned to death for adultery. In Jordan, if a man suspects his wife of sexual indiscretion and he kills her, he will get a mere slap on the wrist. In Egypt, aid workers spend an inordinate amount of time convincing women that it is wrong for their husbands to beat them.

 

"Islam exposes the meaning of jihad every day. It is not "I" that needs to know your version of the truth, it is your brothers in islam that do. Convincing me isn't going to solve the problems of death and destruction that islam brings to the world. You need to convince your brothers of the new meaning of jihad."

I just have to repeat this, it's too good to be overlooked!
Thank you GTech!

 

You just proved me right here! Taking one verse does not make any sense. I just mentioned it and you did all over again. These all points that you just copy pasted from somewhere are just verses... its no where near complete and it would only make sense if you read the prior and post part of it. These verses were made when Islam had only handful of followers and there were some groups who wanted to completely eradicate the followers and the religion. If you know a bit of history, you would know that.

"women in general are sub-classed citizens " - (Post#234, By GTech)
"blame America first" - (Thread# 1632935, Post# 41, By GTech)
"Bush eats babies and plotted 9/11" - (Thread# 164661, Post #2, By GTech)

GTech, these are from your actual posts here.

Lets take a more practical example. An Iraqi Military head talking to Iraqi soldiers. "Kill every American soldier who has occupied our land and free our country! Be careful not to harm any non-fighters and the unarmed".

You can go ahead and quote this: "Kill these Americans" and put it all over the internet. Yes, you are not lying but you are hiding the rest of the facts and I believe that is as bad as lying and deceiting the readers. If you have to put out some points.. put in complete and do not try to conceive the rest of the facts that go with it.


Islam promotes peace but at the same time it rejects cowardice. For example, if someone is trying to snatch your property forcibly and illegally , Islam gives you the right to fight back and reclaim your property. Does that mean Islam is not peaceful? Your decision.

Finally.. I see some comments that Will.Spencer made and all I can say that is could be very rude and offensive to many. To me, you sounded like you were out of arguments or did not know what to reply so you degraded the conversation to just insults and posts without rationale that could only hurt people around than to help anything. Its definitely a civilized conversation that I was trying to have here, which it does not remain anymore. GTech, good chatting with you though!

 

Well just go down the list and put them in context then. Or finish them.
Then go get me some from the Bible. You may find one or two that I can easly put in context and explain. You could even change a word or two if you want. Why so many that's what I don't get and, they were already simply put in the Bible. Why go and make another book with more in them? Explaining them? Then another book? Looks like a cover up to me. To me it looks like Mohamad wanted everyone to worship him not Allah so he wrote his own version of the Bible to FORCE everyone just as Popes and others have done before. Sorry but it's just a big cult!

"Islam promotes peace but at the same time it rejects cowardice. For example, if someone is trying to snatch your property forcibly and illegally , Islam gives you the right to fight back and reclaim your property. Does that mean Islam is not peaceful? Your decision."

Yes it does, the Bible already taught what to do if someone takes your property and it's not to fight back. What gives Islam the right to change the teachings of the Bible? What or should I say who, gave Islam the right to fight back?
I don't know where you live but we have laws here, they may not be perfect but we don't go cutting our neighbors head off if he takes our tv.
Even people who choose no religion know that.

 

NO I CATEGORICALLY DISAGREE, tribalism and tradition DEFINE heinous behavior.

And heinous behaviour changes over time. Whats commonplace now may be heinous in 100 years

For example the age of consent, legal status of homosexuality, legal status of pornography, abortion, racism, capital punishment etc are all human beviours that change with the prevailing winds of the day.

Our not too distant ancestors had no real problems with slavery, genocide in the name of colonialism, and maybe canabalism, depending on how far back you want to look, and who your ancestors were.

We are all COMPLETELY ruled by tribalism and tradition - unless you were brought up in an isolation tank!

 

You have laws that allows to invade other countries and kill people with bombs and guns.

 

I had decided not write here after Will.Spencer's last comments but your post does need to be answered and I am not sure anyone would..so here is me again

I was also not going to mention what Bible says about Slaves, Gays and how it allows several types of murders but you just got me started.

"Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel." (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Any comment on this, Suitsme?

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

What about the below verses from Bible?

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

If the below versus were to be followed by Christians, Paris Hilton would be the first one to run away and stay with Michael Jackson in Bahrain!

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Why should I? Thats GTech's post and I asked him to post the 'full story' and not a verse from some corner that would not make sense without rest of the content. Hiding facts on purpose is not much different from lying.. specially when you are posting on a public forum. I did not want to mention it but I found those quotes from Quran all over Google and GTech just copy pasted it as it is in the exact same order.. that proves that he did no go through the Quran and no wonder he found those parts appalling. If you read it in full, you will understand why those verses are mentioned.

Anyone can do that. Mahatma Gandhi was an extremely peaceful freedom fighter from India. If you had slapped him on his cheek..he would turn his face and ask you to slap on the other one too. Just about 6-7 decades ago when the Britishers (Christians) were killing thousands of people in India and taking away their resources.. he initiated one of the most peaceful movements.. which ultimately became violent but was ultimately successfull. Trust me, I can quote him (or rather misquote), do not tell the whole story and make him look like a mass murderer.

Leaving Gandhi aside...let me quote from Bible here:

"you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way." (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)


How Hebrews must be treated according to the Bible:

"If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever." (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)


How a rape victim should be treated according to Bible:

"If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife."

Note: The underlining of "stone them to death" is done by me. Rest is "as-is" from Bible.

Is killling a slave allowed by Bible? No, it is not.. as long as the slave has blood pumping through his or her heart.


"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property." (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

Another quote from Bible:

"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ." (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

What Bible says about Gays and Infidels:


"So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too." (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)


If you noticed, this is the first time I am quoting Bible. I do not believe Islam is about disrespecting other religion to make it look bad and attract people to its own. I know that these quotes are not meant to offend any Christian whatsoever. This is the way it is mentioned in Bible.

Important Note: The verses GTech quoted from Quran were made under historical context and there were made when Islam was extremely endangered. My quote from Bible above is not in any historical context but is meant for general living. You can go ahead and confirm that. Also, these are just couple of quotes from Bible. I am sure there are plenty more in same taste but we have limit on Characters while posting and I am a bit busy with my last Masters Thesis

 

May be this is the first time you have notice that but, this is quiet usual thing here. GTech is a man of peace.

 

syed:

Are you not familiar with the fact that, in Christianity, the Old Testament covenant is no longer in force?

All of your Old Testament quotes are effectively irrelevant.

Your Ephesians quote is meant for Christian slaves, not Christian slavemasters. Remember your Nietzsche -- Christianity is essentially a slave ethos.

Your Romans quote cleary states "Gods death penalty", not "the death penalty of a bunch of terrorist screwheads."

If this is all you have against the Christians, you might as well convert now.

 

Sometimes, gut instincts are the best.

You would not be the first. You would be surprised, had you been here long enough, how many people are quick to whip out the Old Testament to prove a point. That, in itself, takes no special skill. Now, a true feat would be the person who is studying for his Masters, to whip out the New Testament and start quoting. *That* would be special

Let's look at those Old Testament scriptures in context, with every day life. A fine poster, by the name of Henny (PBUH) once posted:

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=110161

It's a fascinating read and one that really makes you think, when looking at Old Testament scriptures in today's world. Further, while we can easily and quickly spot, virtually daily, the crimes committed against humanity by islam and match them quite easily to the verses of the quran, I welcome you to match your Old Testament quotes to actions being committed by Christians today in the name of their God. See the difference? Probably not, huh?

I really don't care what the excuse is, the verses are accurate and being used by islamists around the world to murder, rape, execute, enslave and cause violence and grief. And those that are not actually doing these crimes seek to legitimize and make excuses for those crimes and in my opinion, are no better than those actually using the saw to chop off heads.

Remember what I said? muslims stick together, no matter what? Is it starting to sink in yet? You just helped me make that point quite clear.

 

Note to self:
Don't forget the peanut butter for Henny.

(I hate wasting peanut butter on anyone)

Henny(pbuh) oh well...

 

I only like peanut butter with chocolate! (pbcuh)