Liberal 'Family Values'?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by Rick_Michael, Oct 17, 2006.

  1. Rick_Michael

    Rick_Michael Peon

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    #41
    No, that's just perception.
     
    Rick_Michael, Oct 21, 2006 IP
  2. earlpearl

    earlpearl Well-Known Member

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    #42
    earlpearl, Oct 21, 2006 IP
  3. Rick_Michael

    Rick_Michael Peon

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    #43
    Someone's going to get adopted? Your sentence is structured in an odd way. I'm thinking you're saying one of them may be good enough. In some cases that may be true, but not in all.

    All I'm saying is that people don't give the effort they should be giving. They're just following their hollyweird idols, and divorcing out of convience, rather than out of necessity. They're being selfish.

    Statistically, young men commit suicide more when in a family without a father...young women have more abortions...

    - Half of the mother-only families live below the poverty line.
    - The income of mothers in single-parent families one year after divorce is 67% of what it was prior to divorce, while income of divorced men falls to around 90% of pre-divorce income.
    - Mother-only families move more frequently than two-parent families, subjecting the family to more adjustment stress and less stability in neighborhood relationships.
    - Adolescents from mother-only families are more likely to be sexually active, and daughters are more likely to become single-parent mothers.
    - Adolescents report receiving less help with homework and make decisions under less parental supervision in general than do adolescents from two-parent families.
    - Adolescents in mother-only families report being more susceptible to peer pressure than adolescents in two-parent families.
    - Adolescents in mother-only families are more likely to commit delinquent acts. (85% of all youths sitting in prisons grew up in a fatherless home)
    - Children from mother-only families did less well on standardized tests of cognitive development. Their difference in comparison to children from two-parent families was even greater on teacher evaluations such as grade-point averages and reports of behavioral problems in schools and with peers.
    - Absence from school was higher for children from mother-only families.
    - Girls from mother-only families are more likely to become depressed during adolescence and also express more aggression than other girls.
    - Young adults who grew up in mother-only families were more likely to drop out of high school.
    - Young adults who grew up in mother-only families have lower earnings; girls are more likely to receive welfare.
    - Young adults from mother-only families are more likely to divorce.
    - Young adults from mother-only families are more likely to commit delinquent acts and to engage in drug and alcohol use than offspring from two-parent families.

    Journal of Marriage and the Family (Research1)

    What do you base your opinion off of?
     
    Rick_Michael, Oct 21, 2006 IP
  4. Rick_Michael

    Rick_Michael Peon

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    #44
    Here's so other interesting ones...they almost sound fictional.....I find the bold amazing. What's with that!?


    • Seventy-five percent of all adolescent patients in chemical abuse centers come from fatherless homes.

    • Eighty percent of rapists come from fatherless homes.(Source: Criminal Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26, 1978.)

    • Boys from fatherless homes have a higher incidence of unemployment, incarceration, and noninvolvement with their own children.

    • Ninety percent of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes.
     
    Rick_Michael, Oct 21, 2006 IP
  5. ferret77

    ferret77 Heretic

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    #45
    you list of all these stats but many don't show causation, like if you threw race in there you could pretty much blame most of societies problems on minorities

    Are mother only familes below the poverty line because poor people don't stay to togather?, poor people make bad decisions and have kids with people who don't stick around?

    What is the relationship?

    I'd don't understand this , isn't it just math if you have the 1/2 the parents, you will have less income?

    is there proof that moving around is negative?

    well, then there should be more birth control and abortions

    is it people from single parent homes or more people from poor homes, because the first point was that most single family homes are poor, which is the real cause?

    Because its an arbitary flag to fly, no one is against families, its a made up issue. Nobody is attacking families, there is no threat to families, by any one , maybe the end of farming, but that is about it.

    People don't have to spawn 20 kids to make sure a couple make it to adult hood, you don't need a whole clan to run the farm any more, not that most of my neighbors seem to know it.
     
    ferret77, Oct 21, 2006 IP
  6. Rick_Michael

    Rick_Michael Peon

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    #46
    Would you?

    I see it as more of an IQ issue, to be honest. Race MAY have something to do with it, but that's a very contraversial view to assert. Here's a simple example of IQ, rather than race specifically:

    IQ.........<75...75–90...90–110..110–125 .>125

    Had an illegitimate baby (mothers)
    ...........32......17........8.......... 4.......... 2
    Lives in poverty
    ...........30......16........6...........3...........2
    Chronic welfare recipient (mothers)
    ............31......17.......8...........2...........< 1

    Note: This is only a study of (non-hispanic) white people.


    Compiled by Gottfredson (1997) from a U.S. study by Herrnstein & Murray (1994) pp. 171, 158, 163, 174, 230, 180, 132, 194, 247–248, 194, 146 respectively.


    That doesn't apply to all culture and backgrounds. It's much harder to find latin households with single parents than it is to find black households with single parents....

    I'm not sure that can be linked to just being poor in general...I think it's more of an IQ issue. ^^^^^^^

    Oh, I agree, it's not a simple perspective.

    You think it would be illegal to neuter the Forest gump types? In real life,
    Forest Gump is door greeter at Wallmart...soaking up on welfare.


    Well, yes, it's a practical issue. You do think there's a sort of practicality to marriage don't you?

    Like combined wealth to care for kids and each other...when in need.

    From what I read, it's really a matter of the parent(s) attitude of the move, the age of the child, and the reason behind the move(divorce, new job, etc.)....more than the actual move itself.



    More than likely it's IQ, but I've also seen studies that wealth effects IQ....or perhaps it's the other way around. I tend to think one's IQ deeply effects ones life in many ways.


    Well, no one is literally saying that families must be destroyed. But philosophically, and structurally, there's a set of influences moving our country in the direction of being single rather than being married (much like areas in Europe...whom look down upon marriage as old fashion). I don't think it's a bad thing that people wait out a few more of their younger years to get things settled. But the whole idea of abandoning a rather pratical paradigm for something else... I don't understand that.

    I see divorce law to be a promoter of ending families ie it overly favors women (if they desire to abuse it). Any time you give a lawyer a loophole in law, he'll do his best to keep the cycle going. If you go to France their system makes it almost as financially easy to be a single parent than a married one, because of their high welfare system. While I'm sure that some marriage need to be dissolved for valid reasons, I don't want the structure to promote such. I don't want to make a tax system for 'whims', or a law structure which overly compensates divorce proceedings. Law needs to be neutral in social directions such as marriage....it shouldn't have a bias either way.

    Hollyweird idols pervade a very selfish, 'what do I get out of this,' culture upon America. About every other 'artist' is following this sort of modern influence. It's always been around, but it's now part of the popular culture.


    Latin or Filipino? Just guessing...
     
    Rick_Michael, Oct 21, 2006 IP
  7. ferret77

    ferret77 Heretic

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    #47
    I live south of miami
     
    ferret77, Oct 21, 2006 IP
  8. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #48
    Yet another person that just does not get it.
     
    Mia, Oct 21, 2006 IP
  9. Grafstein

    Grafstein Peon

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    #49
    Theres a solution,the parents shouldnt divorce,instead they should seperate (live in seperate houses,flats etc) but at the same time visit there kids everyday and share them across the week.
    Then there will be no argueing,just witnessing the friendship of there parents.

     
    Grafstein, Oct 22, 2006 IP
  10. ferret77

    ferret77 Heretic

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    #50
    dude are you like 14 years old?, have every had a serious relationship go south?

    Thats not ususally how it works, your not going to friends with the mom of your kids when you catch her banging her co-workers or one of your "friends", while your at work.
     
    ferret77, Oct 22, 2006 IP
  11. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #51
    So, I don't understand why that would bother you. I thought that was OK to do, free sex, with whoever, whenever, wherever, or whatever.
     
    debunked, Oct 22, 2006 IP
  12. ferret77

    ferret77 Heretic

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    #52
    Debunked do you really think that?

    What did you do marry your first girlfriend?

    You've never been in dis-honest relationship? You think lying and cheating are the same as "free sex" as you put it.
     
    ferret77, Oct 22, 2006 IP
  13. Grafstein

    Grafstein Peon

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    #53
    actually im 19,i witnessed these things as a child.
     
    Grafstein, Oct 22, 2006 IP
  14. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #54
    1. Did I marry my first girlfriend? Don't understand the reason for that question in context to the discussion, but no. I also didn't have sex with my wife until our wedding night if that is why you are trying to get at.

    2. I am trying to pull logic out of the free sex type thinking that gets mad when all of a sudden it isn't. Why would you expect your wife or girlfriend to not sleep around if that is how the relationship started? (Don't try to read anything into this, I am serious about not understanding how it works in your mind.)
     
    debunked, Oct 22, 2006 IP
  15. marketjunction

    marketjunction Well-Known Member

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    #55
    Not to get off the subject, but that's a classic psychological question when dealing with relationships. Most people (heck, maybe all of us) expect the other person to change. I'm not just talking about sex. It could be that your wife was a big-time spender before the marriage. Why would it change now?

    Ok, back to your discussions. That line just caught my eye. :D
     
    marketjunction, Oct 22, 2006 IP
  16. ferret77

    ferret77 Heretic

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    #56
    You really don't know the difference between a commited and uncommited relationship?

    umm because I first meet someone I am not commited to them, but if we like each other and get along, the dynamic often changes. It becomes more of an agreement to see each other exclusively.

    Although sometimes that doesn't work out.

    also "sleeping around" when you are single is different then lying and cheating on someone you pledge commitment to, at least me

    what would you have done if she hated sex? wouldn't you have been stuck?
     
    ferret77, Oct 23, 2006 IP
  17. debunked

    debunked Prominent Member

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    #57
    OK, I think I am understanding your commitment idea somewhat, but to me it still isn't logical.

    You have a weird idea on waiting until marriage. Marriage is more than sex, and I have not heard of anyone who waited that didn't like sex. Sure there are some who do more than others, but the marriage isn't about sex, so that can be worked out over time.
     
    debunked, Oct 23, 2006 IP
  18. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #58
    Seems like a personal problem to me.


    I don't think anything he says is meant to be understood.
     
    Mia, Oct 23, 2006 IP
  19. ferret77

    ferret77 Heretic

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    #59
    I know you guys probably havn't dated many woman and all, but let me tell you there are some terrible ones out there
     
    ferret77, Oct 23, 2006 IP
  20. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

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    #60
    How about the guys you've dated? Are they all bad too?
     
    GTech, Oct 23, 2006 IP