Should an American get away with murder on foreign soil ?

Like these?

The prisoner Manadel al-Jamadi died in Abu Ghraib prison after being interrogated and tortured by a CIA officer and a private contractor. The torture included physical violence and strappado hanging, whereby the victim is hung from the wrists with the hands tied behind the back. His death has been labeled a homicide by the US military.


Major General Antonio Taguba has stated that there is photographic evidence of rape being carried out by Brent Rowe at Abu Ghraib. An Iraqi teenage boy was raped by a uniformed man while photos of it were taken by a female US military police officer. The alleged rapist was identified by a witness as an American-Egyptian who worked as a translator, and who is now the subject of a civil court case in the US. Another photo shows an American soldier apparently raping a female prisoner.Other photos show sexual assaults on prisoners with objects including a truncheon, wire and a phosphorescent tube, and a female prisoner having her clothing forcibly removed to expose her breasts.Taguba has supported President Obama's decision not to release the photos, stating, “These pictures show torture, abuse, rape and every indecency.”
In other alleged cases, female inmates were said to be raped by soldiers. In one reported case, senior US officials admitted rape had taken place at Abu Ghraib.

The New York Times, in a report on January 12, 2005, reported testimony suggesting that the following events had taken place at Abu Ghraib:
Urinating on detainees
Jumping on detainee's leg (a limb already wounded by gunfire) with such force that it could not thereafter heal properly
Continuing by pounding detainee's wounded leg with collapsible metal baton
Pouring phosphoric acid on detainees
Sodomization of detainees with a baton
Tying ropes to the detainees' legs or penises and dragging them across the floor.


SPC England and SPC Graner posing behind a pyramid of naked Iraqi prisoners, giving the “thumbs up” sign
In her video diary, a prison guard said that prisoners were shot for minor misbehavior, and claimed to have had venomous snakes bite prisoners, sometimes resulting in their deaths.




Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse



Abu Ghraib: United States soldier Spc. Graner prepares to punch restrained prisoners

 

Gee Helvetii,

You seem to have an Abu Ghraib fetish going on right now. You are aware the Abu Gharaib scandal is more than half a decade in the past right? You are aware that Abu Gharaib is not Gitmo, right? You are aware that, despite the horror of those pictures, it still doesn't hold a candle to the sanctioned daily practices in Pakistan AND INDIA.

And India of course.

If you really want to change the topic of the thread, you should stick with a topic that you do better than the US on, don'tcha think?

 

Well, it appears the answer is yes, an American SHOULD get away with murder, but only if he pays blood money.

Pakistan frees murder accused CIA contractor

Source

This makes me sick to the stomach -towards the dead man's families. What's the point of having laws if money can fix it? I can only hope the families will choke and die on their caviar.

 

Not only applicable to Americans. Any good Muslim in Pakistan can potentially be freed via blood money. Did you think they would exempt him from such laws because he is American? Its not like he is a Jew or a female.

All is well that ends well!

 

The more I think of it the angrier I am, at Pakistan. The end result is disgusting.

Finally, 100% agreed.

 

You shouldn't be too upset about the end result. If it were not Pakistan, you may not have had the same end result, but you also would likely not have had the situation in the first place. What happened to respecting other people's cultures? Didn't see you express too much anger at the 2000 US sympathizers being rounded up in Afghanistan because of the careless actions of an idiot and the ego of a wanna be hacker.

 

This man was convicted of unlawfully killing two Pakistanis. The family then sets him free upon payment of money. It is sickening and reason for me to detest Pakistan as a corruption-filled nation. How can anyone respect the law, or even Pakistanis, when this can happen? Obviously why they're an anarchic country.

Good luck to the American murderer I say, I don't blame his lawyers for exploiting the loophole, that's what good lawyers do. Fuck the Pakistanis! Corruption quite obviously moves further than cricket circles.

And, c'mon, this has nothing to do with the 2,000 abettors in Afghanistan as opposed to the 200,000 innocents your side have already killed in this war for oil, though changing the subject has cheered me up thanks.

 

Uh, no. Never even stood trial. They could have made the entire story up.

LoL. Would you call stoning someone to death for blasphemy a loophole or a rule. Your claim is that some laws are less equal than others?

"Your side"? Last time I checked, Australia was perhaps our biggest partner in the prosecution of the war in Afghanistan. I wonder if you would carry the same tone if the 2000 people your boy got killed were Australians. I guess, even though they are our allies, they are Aghanis, which makes their lives worth less somehow in your book?

Its comic to watch the side taking in your posts. If it is against America(and Australia ) you are for it. Mind you, everyone chooses a side which I don't mind so much, though it is rather unnatural for you to side against your own country.

What is annoying is your pretense of caring about the humanity like in this case of Mr. Davis. Try being honest. You don't give two craps about the loss of human life resulting from this incident, just as you don't give a crap about the 2000 lost lives from Assanges espionage, or the 200,000 alleged lost lives on either side of this conflict. What you care about is seeing Mr. Davis prosecuted because he is an American. What you care about is seeing NATO fail in it's efforts in Afghanistan, regardless of the chaos that will invariably follow.

Taking a side is fine. Just don't go preachy on me telling me about the purity of your cause. There is more purity and logic to be found in the scrutiny of monkey feces.

 

Another absolute load of crap from you. I hate injustice and liars (which is why I don't think much of you), whoever commits it, even if it's Americans or Australians. Liars are liars however you try to spin it.

2,000 lost lives... as if. There have been NO lives lost, let me repeat NO lives lost, and you know it. Fortunately the thinkers here know that too.

Here you spin the 2000 as 'lives lost' and the 200,000 as reported by many agencies, as 'alleged lives lost'. Too funny.

 

For the sake of clarity, perhaps you should start out by stating which side did the killing, like you did earlier. "your side" killed X, while my side killed Y. It will make your posts easier to understand.

 

I think you'll find that the nation/nations that win the wars, can dictate who committed the crimes. like the UK obliterated most of the German cities, in Dresden alone over 60,000 civilians were killed in one night, in Hamburg over 50,000 civilians over 3 nights. trust me the UK killed well over 1 million German civilians yet Germany only killed 70,000 UK civilians that figure includes the merchant sailors lost at sea. we were sending over 1500 heavy bombers at a time to bomb a single city in the last year of the war, Germany could only send 40 medium bombers at a time.

at the end of the war, we won, and charged the Germans with indiscriminate bombing and targeting of civilians in UK cites.

However had Germany won, i am sure they would have laid the same charges at the UK

The reason we are not killing civilians en mass today, is because no nation is attacking the UK and bombing us, if they were, the UK would (as it always has) return the bombing 10 fold.

for now we will use smart bombs and just take out the military targets. sadly yes a few civilians do get killed, that is regrettable, it does not mean we are targeting civilians, trust me if we were, tens of 1000's would be killed in a single bombing.

 

Hillary Clinton: no blood money paid

This looks more like a back-door deal between the two governments.

 

The problem with Pakistan was well represented on this Forum. You got a group of guys looking to heap cr*p on the US in anyway possible(we are at war after all), and a diplomatic flap like this provided them a perfect opportunity. "Should a US diplomat get away with murder on Pakistani soil?". Apparently, this event was creating a LOT of outrage and anti-US angst in Pakistan, despite the fact that nobody, including us, knows any of the details surrounding what happened in this shooting.

Letting this thing end in the Pakistani courts without the appearance of US interference, per the terms of Pakistani Sharia law, achieved the second most important objective next to getting Davis out. That objective had to have been placating the already agitated and hot-headed natives.

Did the US front the money? Who cares besides the agitators. The US wouldn't have had to, given the large number of private citizens in the US who have that kind of money to donate to a national security cause they care about. My guess is that the Saudi Prince who negotiated the deal fronted the money from his loose pocket change. At US $2.4 million, Davis got off for half the price OJ paid.

 

The family disappeared after the deal. nobody knows where the loose change u are really talking about went. they are like the missing persons u dont know about. secret captives. was it really given nobody knows or had it been given there would have been no reason to disappear them from the scene... the delay was because the govt was waiting to calm down the issue and then handover the Frisbee to their dear masters. The injustice will haunt the doers one day..

 

The blood money was paid by Pakistan Government, family forced to accept, the US government promised to reimburse Pakistan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/17/world/asia/17pakistan.html?_r=1&ref=global-home

 

That is an interesting side point. Check it out:

2.3 million dollars and US greencards. Not a bad deal. Certainly better than what Al Queda pays for blowing up innocent civilians....

You need to work on your reading skills. Nowhere in that article does it say the family was forced to accept the blood money. Would one really have to "force" an average Paki family to accept 2.4 million dollars and US green cards for the whole family?

The article was an interesting read though. It shed some light on why the murky water around this whole ordeal:

Sounds like the ISI was not told about Davis because he was investigating militants working with the ISI. That those militant groups carry out attacks in India is just icing on the cake. Given that tidbit of information, I'm not sure how I feel about the families of the "victims" being given green cards and residency in up state New York.

 

source

He was in contact with TTP not LET
http://www.thecornerreport.com/index.php?p=7407&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

If you think its a conspiracy theory and USA would never do this. I can post few ex-CIA whistle blower videos on the doing of US Govt.

 

Now THAT was some humorous reading. US papers(the NY Times) quote US sources telling us Davis was infiltrating the ISI connected LET. The Paki newspapers quote some police officer claiming to have found phone records linking Davis to Al Queda(as if he would ever leave such records, or as if such a relationship could reasonably exist). Makes one wonder how much influence the ISI has over what gets printed in Pakistan.

Giving the two conflicting news stories equal credibility, or discarding them, leaves one to consider the surrounding circumstances.

1) We are pouring billions of dollars a day into combating the Taliban from the Afghan side of your border.
2) We are pouring billions of dollars into the hunt for Al Queda cells.
3) We send Pakistan another 3 billion dollars a year to manage expenses associated with the fight from their soil
4) On Sept. 12th 2001, had Bush wanted to be rid of Pakistan's nuclear capability, we would have immediately invaded to do so. Musharaaf has been quoted as hearing the words, "Help us in this cause or we will bomb you into the stone age".

These FACTS make this idea your news is putting out, that Davis is somehow working with the Taliban/Al Queda to destabilize Pakistan in an effort to eliminate Pakistan's nuclear capability, quite impossible. We would be working directly against our own interests to do so, and let me assure you, we do not consciously work against our own interests. Your little fantasy story is missing the most important element. Who benefits?

I'll tell you who benefits from the story in your Examiner, as well as who has the ability to have such a story published. The ISI.

 

According to you, you believe what your agencies told you e.g. CIA and I belive what ISI told us.

Sometimes I belive in CIA too.
watch the whole video.
[video=google;-8085945499556832271]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8085945499556832271&hl=undefined#[/video]