You can say about Mubarak all you want, but...

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by thesickearth, Feb 14, 2011.

  1. #1
    The fact is that there are 29 067 sq kilometers of arable land and well over 80 000 000 people who want to eat, drink, wear some clothes. Thats 360 sq meters of land per each Egyptian, and population is growing by 2% a year, so this time next year there will be 352 sq meters, and a year after that 344 and so on. That wont be changed no matter who has power in Egypt.
    There is no more oil to export, in fact Egypt has to find monies to buy some.
    Tourism, 1.5 billion from Suez canal and 1.5 billion of handouts from USA wont feed 80.5 million people no matter what.

    Dont get me wrong I know that he is a crook and stole billions and so on, and I really wish a full victory for politically active Egyptians, but the fact is that the next Egyptian leader will be a crook too, and the one after him, and the next one, and so on. That is not an Egyptian or Middle-Eastern problem, that is simply a fact of life, your leader (no matter where you live) is either a slimy hypocrite ( and a crook) ( if you live in democracy) or ruthless, bloody thug (and a crook) ( if you dont live in democracy).

    So how do they ( or you, if you live in Egypt) imagine their future government solving enormous problems that Egypt is facing ?
     
    thesickearth, Feb 14, 2011 IP
  2. babak44

    babak44 Active Member

    Messages:
    1,101
    Likes Received:
    7
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    78
    #2
    I guess Egyptian will have better life without Mubarak and his dictatorial regimen. when you live under tyrants rule the sq meter isn't important at all. surely any transaction power and rule effect in their living condition for a while but guess they have promising future and for Middle East.
     
    babak44, Feb 14, 2011 IP
  3. Bushranger

    Bushranger Notable Member

    Messages:
    2,841
    Likes Received:
    257
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    200
    #3
    It might be true that every politician is crook but it is also true that every crook should be in jail so if you find out they're crook you should just not sit back and say that's the way it is. You should try to do something about it, as the people of Egypt are trying to do.

    If the foundations are crook you will never get a solid building. The second they are found to be crooks they should be chucked in jail and the next one should take their place until eventually all crooks are gone.

    Transparency (of all taxpayer funded bodies) is required and if you are not a crook you would not oppose it.

    Things have to change in Egypt, if corruption is allowed to continue just the same as it was then what's the point of them protesting peacefully? They might as well just blow them all up next time, or just kill off the old regime and start again.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2011
    Bushranger, Feb 14, 2011 IP
  4. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,016
    Likes Received:
    237
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    180
    #4
    And I thought I was cynical.
     
    Obamanation, Feb 14, 2011 IP
  5. Breeze Wood

    Breeze Wood Peon

    Messages:
    2,130
    Likes Received:
    6
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #5
    Limit the time they serve in office.
     
    Breeze Wood, Feb 15, 2011 IP
  6. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

    Messages:
    23,694
    Likes Received:
    1,167
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    440
    #6
    Limit the term of a dictator? You're one smart kid. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
    Mia, Feb 15, 2011 IP
  7. thesickearth

    thesickearth Active Member

    Messages:
    1,188
    Likes Received:
    15
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    78
    #7
    Is that why you opened your DP Social Group?
     
    thesickearth, Feb 15, 2011 IP
  8. thesickearth

    thesickearth Active Member

    Messages:
    1,188
    Likes Received:
    15
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    78
    #8
    But these people protest because they are (very) poor and see no way out of their poverty ( and there are good reasons for that). They do not protest because they cant elect their sheriffs, judges, etc. People in Lybia, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuweit have dictators too but they do not protest because those dictators have means to feed, clothe, and shed them.
    So where the means will come from for a new Egyptian leader to do the same? Sure you can gut the Mubarak's mafia and fill every Egyptian's fridge with food (which is surely better than nothing), what after that?
     
    thesickearth, Feb 15, 2011 IP
  9. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,016
    Likes Received:
    237
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    180
    #9
    Why did Diogenes carry a lantern?

    FYI, Israel has 1940 km2 of irrigated land and 7.5 million people, leaving only 258 square meters of land per Israeli. Gibraltar has 6.8 km2 of land(none of it arable), and a population of 29,431 leaving only 231 square meters of land per person. I think you can see where I'm going with this. It seems you are barking up the wrong tree with the food/farm land to citizen ratio, though I'll admit that well fed citizens are much less likely to riot.
     
    Obamanation, Feb 15, 2011 IP
  10. luke12

    luke12 Member

    Messages:
    609
    Likes Received:
    4
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    45
    #10
    The simple way to look at it is if a leader could make a country worse; a new leader could make it better. There are lots of means and resources. Egypt is rich in minerals. They could also look at boosting their tourism industry. Perhaps they could improve the education system in Egypt which will benefit the future generations.
     
    luke12, Feb 15, 2011 IP
  11. thesickearth

    thesickearth Active Member

    Messages:
    1,188
    Likes Received:
    15
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    78
    #11
    I dont know or care, you've mentioned that you are cynical, and I wondered if thats why you opened a social group "Muslims who love the state of Israel" . Makes total sense imo.

    there is some difference between irrigated land and arable land dont you think? Israel has 463 sq meters per person and no , they cannot feed themselves with it anyway.
    No, I really dont. Gibraltar is not a country, and Jews get by without getting their hands dirty for thousands of years, since agriculture is one of the lowest occupation that exists according to Judaism. May be you suggest that Egypt will turn itself into a giant Monaco or a Singapore of sorts and everyone will be wearing a sparkling white shirt in an air-conditioned office where they will be passing papers to each other ? Well, good luck with that.

    Did you just called me a dog? I thought you can get permanently banned for this in this forum.
     
    thesickearth, Feb 15, 2011 IP
  12. thesickearth

    thesickearth Active Member

    Messages:
    1,188
    Likes Received:
    15
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    78
    #12
    Tourism industry is boosted already. 12-13 million tourists annually giving Egyptians almost as much as Uncle Sam and Suez Canal combined. Lets suggest that tourists are growing on the trees (along with their dollars) and The New Leader will double--NO! triple existing ones. You think 80+ million people (and 1.6 million more each year) can live all year by serving 1 week or less to 35 million tourists?
    Resources-- what are they? Egypt has been a country for well over 5000 years, what are those resources that were set aside for 5000 years so somebody else can use them?
     
    thesickearth, Feb 15, 2011 IP
  13. a2hemeda

    a2hemeda Member

    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    #13
    I am Egyptian and i am proud of that,
    Our country is very rich but it was stolen by the Corrupt system,
    But in the era of the next president will be the best.
     
    a2hemeda, Feb 15, 2011 IP
  14. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,016
    Likes Received:
    237
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    180
    #14
    Google. Its informative for those who care to educate themselves. I only mentioned that I was cynical to highlight your extreme cynicism which, being cynical, I don't necessarily disagree with.


    For the purposes of growing crops, there isn't much difference. The farmers of the California central valley would tell you as much.

    Does it matter? It is an economically independent territory without arable land, surrounded on all sides by foreign nations. For the sake of this argument, it will do nicely.

    "Under its current Constitution, Gibraltar has almost complete internal democratic self-government through an elected parliament.[20][21][22][23] The head of state is Queen Elizabeth II, who is represented by the Governor of Gibraltar. Defence, foreign policy and internal security are formally the responsibility of the Governor; judicial and other appointments are also made on behalf of the Queen in consultation with the head of the elected government"

    source

    Whats your point?

    With enough education, and a fundamental shift in culture, it could happen. I've read their constitutional committee will be modeling their constitution after the US. If that is true, it is an encouraging first step.

    And I thought I was rabid ;).
     
    Obamanation, Feb 15, 2011 IP
  15. Breeze Wood

    Breeze Wood Peon

    Messages:
    2,130
    Likes Received:
    6
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #15
    fact is

    Not really, with a two term limit for the executive in the US the society is assured their leader will be removed after no longer than 8 years and has the beneficial effect against the suggested stagnation of the above quote.
     
    Breeze Wood, Feb 15, 2011 IP
  16. thesickearth

    thesickearth Active Member

    Messages:
    1,188
    Likes Received:
    15
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    78
    #16
    I do agree. One brilliant military general said that all military officers engaged in supply of the troops should be executed after 10 years of service--- without any court or investigation. I figure same thing should apply here.
     
    thesickearth, Feb 15, 2011 IP
  17. Law-Dude

    Law-Dude Active Member

    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    12
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    85
    #17
    Malthus called. He wants his failed hypothesis back.
     
    Law-Dude, Feb 16, 2011 IP
  18. thesickearth

    thesickearth Active Member

    Messages:
    1,188
    Likes Received:
    15
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    78
    #18
    Did he? Did he mention by some chance who will be feeding Egyptians, Tunisians, Yemenis, etc? And why?
     
    thesickearth, Feb 16, 2011 IP
  19. StefanNET

    StefanNET Peon

    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #19
    Oh I mean cmon, he is the richest man on the earth, so what that take you to?
     
    StefanNET, Feb 16, 2011 IP
  20. babak44

    babak44 Active Member

    Messages:
    1,101
    Likes Received:
    7
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    78
    #20
    yeah poverty could rise anger against govenment and be a motive for more protests come to streets but poorness along can't be main cause of revolution I think.

    congratulation to you and all the Egyptians.
     
    babak44, Feb 17, 2011 IP