Don't greet Hindus on Diwali: Malaysian Muslims told

Just because she was born in a traditional "muslim family" won't make her know "Islam" well, and just because she can speak Arabic and memorize Koran doesn't me she understand it, Anyone who has the ability to speak and read English can memorize Shakespeare's Sonet 18 or any other literature works, but it doesn't mean they understand it. Anyway, for your information "Koran" wasn't not passed down in modern Arabic, Not only it was a classic language, it wasn't even a mainstream language of that time..the language in Quran was a dialect...The reason why after years of studying and researching, none of the theologists and language experts can claim they have found the right translation if you ask all the Quran authors, none of them would dare to say their work is a translation, they would say their work is an intepretation of Quran. The same reason why there is only "authorized" version and not "official" version of Quran. The authors would even say that their intepretation would not be free from errors. Unless you want to tell me that your wife can do so and put all the theologists to shame....

 

Hahahaha! What silliness. The wife has an IQ of 172, I'm sure she understands what she reads -- even if she is a woman!

And yes, she is fluent in classical Arabic. On the other hand, she wasn't allowed to leave the house much, so she doesn't know hardly any slang -- in any language.

I'm sure she could go toe to toe with you any day of the week concerning any point of the Islamic religion. But, she won't. She thinks it's all stupid and doesn't care to talk about it much.

But another point you are bringing up seems very odd to me. Are you reading translations of the Koran? What the hell? I thought that all Muslims agreed that the Koran could not be translated and could be read only in it's original classical Arabic. In what language do you read the Koran?

 

Good to hear that your wife have an IQ of 172, how about you? Anyway, what made you think an IQ 172 would have no problem understanding literature work? Have you ever sit for a MENSA test? Just incase you don't know, in MENSA test or any other IQ test, they don't ask you for your understanding of a literature work. Grab a Mensa book, I have a few at home in case you need a recomendation.

I suggest you read my post carefully, there is no such thing as "Quran translation", there is only "Quran interpretation ". If you need a good modern interpretation of Quran written in modern English which is non-sectarian (he was a lawyer who supposed to become a Rabbi and not some sunni or shiite ), written by someone who "logic" is very important to him and who is also fluent in Spanish,Dutch,English and stay with Bedouins for years just to understand the classical language, I suggest you to get a copy of Muhammad Asad's interpretation of Quran.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/cu...omer-reviews.sort_by=-SubmissionDate&n=283155

its probably the best interpretation in public. you can read it online here:

http://www.geocities.com/masad02/

good luck!

 

Anyway, I am sorry for what happened to your wife. But, it is good thing to know she faced all that strongly , I salute her for that. I wish that her family will finally open their mind. But, I won't blame them, they live with people who shared the same culture and belief that indirectly make them part of them.

 

As usual, make a fuss about it. Fortunately this has been replied to here:

http://www.noorullah.org/2006/10/11/is-wishing-happy-deepavali-haraam/

- MENJ

 

Don't buy that story at all. As for where "fluency" in classical Arabic is concerned, well...not many has attained that. Modern Arabic is similar to classical Arabic in many respects but I have not heard of a modern Arabic reader claiming to have "fluency" in classical Arabic. Nobody speaks the fushah Arabic except in official letters and official speeches.

- MENJ

 

Well, as someone who has read the memo, I can say that the claim is plain BS and a mischievous attempt to hide the truth. Oh yeah, you guys don't read Bahasa Melayu anyway, but I can and I have read the memo. And nothing in there states that the official "directs all Muslims in the country to not greet Hindus on Deepavali".

- MENJ

 

Nobody in your part of the world.

But I bet you already know how Arabs look down upon Malaysians, Indonesians, Persians, Pakistani's, etc... as being backwards and barely literate Muslims.

 

And you just insulted my Arabic intructors as well as a few scholars, religious people and ministers whom I know speak and write fluent Arabic.

I am not a Muslim for their sake. Besides, I have met Arab brothers and sisters who have nothing but the greatest respect for Malaysians/Indonesians/South Asian Muslims.

So frankly your suggestion on racism is bull. When you are a Muslim it is impossible to be a racist. You meet all kinds of Muslims from all over the world in Makkah during the Hajj anyway. Even blond-haired, blue-eyed ones.

- MENJ

 

Welcome to the thread Saudarkar!

 

Nice thread. I'm a Malaysian atheist (brought up muslim) and I don't give a damn about the ultraright likes of MENJ and his bretheren.

There are some things non Malaysians need to understand. The syariah department referred to was not the Malaysian Syariah courts. It's the Islamic Legal department with the Takaful corporation. It has nothing to do with a fatwa (there are however, pretty stupid fartwas that have been passed by the fartwa committee).

a) What gets printed in the papers is not a reflection of what goes on in the street. Malaysian muslims are generally moderate. Nightclubs are filled with people with "Islam" printed on their Malaysian ID cards. They drink, screw and drop E like anyone else on this planet.

b) There are people like MENJ et al, heck my frikkin' barber (who's been cutting my hair for the past 2 decades) thinks like MENJ. There are analogous people like this everywhere, bible thumpers, etc. They're like those rednecks you see in the Appalachians - comedically twisted.

They represent the ultraright fringe. Generally, laws (more importantly implementation) and policies don't get set by them. An exception is the apostacsy cases - but that's more to do with potential erosion of the concept of "Ketuanan Melayu" or Malay Sovereiginity, and hence a political issue. If it were purely a religious issue, it wouldn't escalate the way it has.

c) Most Malaysians will be celebrating DeepaRaya, hell, I've seen some people gettting for RayaLoween - I'd love to see some Jack 'O Pelitas. Hindus and muslims (and some Samhain celebrating pagans) will be wishing each as they have for the past several decades. Of course the Syariah Department of Takaful probably won't. But, hey, who the hell parties with those sad sacks anyway? I don't know a single Takaful employee. I don't know what percentage of their business comes from non muslims, but I expect it'll start declining.

d) This ultraright resurgence is a result of Malaysia becoming more democratic following Abdullah Badwi's administration. During Dr. Mahathir's time, people like MENJ, the Mufti of Perak would be spending time being reprogrammed in Kamunting under the Internal Security Act. More freedoms come at a cost. You get the fundamentalists/literalist muslims crawling out of the woodwork and flexing their muscle.

Selamat DeepaRayaLoween.

 

Very weird, I replied to Saudarkar's post, and I see my reply posted the the thread before Saudarkar's post.

 

The translation is:

Seluruh kakitangan Malaysia adalah dilarang untuk mengucapkan ucap selamat kepada ketiga perayaan di atas dan lainlain lagi yang sepertinya kerana ianya boleh menyebabkan berlakunya syirik.


All Takaful EMPLOYEES in Malaysia are prohibited (not advised but Prohibited) from greeting anyone observing the above three celebrations (3 Hindu celebrations) etc for doing so is blasphemy.

As far as I'm concerned, organizations like Takaful, Tabung Haji, Bank Islam are little fundamentalist microcosms. That's fine, these people gotta work, earn money, put roofs over their heads food on the table and prayer mats on the floor. They generally don't bug anyone and aren't a valid representation of Malaysia.

 

I am Saudakar. We are trained to do stuff like that.

Heh... I deleted the post because I had hit save too soon.

 

As it says...Takaful employees only. Didn't say anything about this directive being applied to all Muslims in Malaysia

They are successful examples of Islamic economics.

- MENJ

 

Probably another reincarnation of SyedTan. See the number of posts and date of reg

- MENJ

 

So menji was in fact trying to be deceptive with clever use of words. Thanks for clearing it up Saudarkar.

 

I think the secular banks have more sucessful implementation of Islamic financial products compared to the above. Islamic financial products like most products have their pros and cons.

I've done contract work for Tabung Hj, Bank Muamalat...these are the most unprofessional outfits I'd ever worked with. They rank about the same as Indonesia or Philipino goverment agencies when it comes to professionalism and work ethic. Which is odd as I assumed that work is a form of "ibadah" for muslims. Most of the time I see them sleeping at the desk or in the suraus.

 

What does that have to do with this thread?

Not mine but that's a bloody great nick, though.

 

Bah, there you go again making noises. It is already quite clear that the directive was for Takaful Malaysia employees (which is of course spread all across the country), and not for Muslim non-employees all over Malaysia. Duh.

- MENJ