Answering Allegations about Islam - !!! Come And Join Us !!!

Almost 200 years after the British outlawed the slave trade in 1807, slave raids and the sale of slaves in Muslim markets continues in countries like Sudan. The slave trade remained legal in Saudi Arabia until 1962, when under international pressure it was finally abolished. However, there are persistent, credible reports, that slavery persists in Saudi Arabia, and even that slaves from Sudan are ending up in Saudi Arabia.

Recently, a former slave from the Nuba Mountains of Sudan, Mende Nazer, had her autobiography: "Slave: My True Story" published. Mende was captured in 1992, she was first a slave to a rich Arab family in Khartoum, and then in 2002 to a Sudanese diplomat in London, from whom she escaped and

SHARIA LAW AND SLAVERY
Islam's Black Slaves notes: "the Quran stipulated that female slaves might lawfully be enjoyed by their masters." Mohammad himself owned many slaves, some of whom he captured in wars of conquest and some he purchased. The names of forty slaves owned by Mohammad are recorded by Muslim chroniclers. Islamic law (Sharia) contains elaborate regulations for slavery. A slave had no right to be heard in court (testimony was forbidden by slaves), slaves had no right to property, could marry only with the permission of the owner, and were considered to be chattel, that is the movable property, of the slave owner. Muslim slave owners were specifically entitled by Sharia law to sexually exploit their slaves, including hiring them out as prostitutes.

One reason why very little has been written about the Arab involvement in slavery is that traditional Islamic culture still condones slavery. The Sharia, the codified Islamic law which is based upon the teachings and example of Mohammad, contains explicit regulations for slavery. One of the primary principles of Islam is following the example of Mohammad. Whatever Mohammad did, we must do, what he forbade, we must forbid, what he did not forbid, we may not forbid. As Mohammad himself traded in slaves and owned slaves, accumulating multiple wives, even marrying a six year old, and having concubines - slavery and the sexual exploitation of women is deeply ingrained in Islamic tradition. Muslim nations had engaged in the slave trade for over 600 years before Europe became involved in the Trans-Atlantic slave trade.

And about 12 years ago a trade was foiled by interpol.
Two large ships, with a Norwegian flag, containing 3500 young girls, boys and teens each were seized before reaching Saudi Arabian slave market.

Ansar Burney Trust rescues two more 'Child Camel Jockeys' in UAE
Source: Pakistan Press International

LAHORE October 09-(PPI): The volunteers of human and civil rights organisation Ansar Burney Welfare Trust International in UAE rescued two more children on slave labour as 'Child Camel Jockeys' on Saturday, October 09. Reportedly, the Chairman of the Trust Ansar Burney with the co-operation of the Trust volunteers in UAE rescued these two more innocent children from the Camel Race camps in Al-Ain (UAE). Rescued Children namely Abdul Qayyum (3) and Mumtaz (5) were rescued by the volunteers of the Ansar Burney Welfare Trust International, after having several difficulties were working on slave labour as child camel jockeys in UAE since last two to three years. Abdul Qayyum was working on slave labour as 'child camel jockey' since last two years, he was sitting on Camel and started working as 'child camel jockey' when he was only one and a half years old. Mumtaz was on slave labour when he was only 2. The Ansar Burney Welfare Trust International is the only human rights organisation working since last several years practically against slave labour in Middle East and Arab Countries to rescue the innocent children working as child camel jockeys in very worst circumstances. It has rescued total 318 children in this current year, 147 children on slave in UAE and 171 children from Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Muscat, Kuwait and other parts of the Arab and Middle East countries and sent them back to Bangladesh, Pakistan, Srilanka and other respective countries for their rehabilitation. These children were trafficked from Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and several countries in Africa and brought to the Middle Eastern and Arab countries for several reasons including for sex and slave labour. The Ansar Burney Welfare Trust International (ABWTI) has successfully traced out more than hundred thousand (100,000) children from the world over specially from Pakistan, through its Bureau of Missing and Kidnapped Children/Persons and has delivered them safely to their families.

THROUGH ASIA PULSE and Kiplinger.com

09-10 2004

 

Ah, you did.

Like I said, now I know why that part of the world is so messed up. And now you would have me believe it pre-dates Christianity? You really are just as messed up.

I am, I have, I did... I'm simply responding to what you have already posted numerous times on the subject.

So you are saying you do then? Ok... SICK!

 

Menj keeps referring to ancient practice when he supports current practice. Pedophilia - plain and simple.

 

Menj

Now that you are ignoring my question I enter from another door

You reasoned that what Muhammad did - marrying 9 years old girls - was acceptable for his time but from the other side you keep supporting having sex with low-aged females at our time, how do you explain this contradiction?

.

 

Careful mahmood... People who question the logic of menj get infractions.

 

Well, I think you must look yourself first before attacking on somebody.

First of all, it is important to know:

Aisha's (ra) parents were the ones who married her to our Prophet (pbuh), and that no Muslim or even pagan objected to the marriage because it was widely practiced. And even until today in 3rd world countries (Muslims and non-Muslims), little girls as young as 9 or 10 do get married. Anyway, the reason no one objected was to the Prophet's marriage was:

People used to have very short life-spans in Arabia. They used to live between 40 to 60 years maximum. So it was only normal and natural for girls to be married off at ages 9 or 10 or similar.

Marriage for young girls was widely practiced among Arabs back then, and even today in many third-world non-Muslim and Muslim countries.

Now coming to some points ::

"Firstly - if indeed the marriage of Lady Aisha was something which was despicable even at that time and in that culture, this fact would never have been recorded for posterity and all efforts to conceal or cloud it would have been undertaken.

But the fact that this hadith had reached us after it was recorded centuries ago and to all the Muslim generations in between proved that the marriage was culturally and morally acceptable and the fact is also that the Muslim community at that time remained unshakened in its faith in his Prophethood and the message which he had brought bear testimony to this assertion.

Secondly - we have to look at the life of Lady Aisha afterwards. She was without doubt one of the foremost scholars of Islam. It is even said that she had attained in her lifetime the position of Mufti - someone capable of giving religious rulings - a position very few Muslims will ever occupy.

She was seeked by many, both men and women, who hungered for knowledge and they came to her from all directions, Yemen, Bahrain, Syria. History does not know of any woman who was approached by so many for such a noble purpose.

If indeed she had became a victim of sexual abuse she would in most probability be devastated emotionally, psychologically, mentally and perhaps even physically but the achievements she had made in her life after the death of the Prophet proved that she was a woman who was in complete control of her faculties, becoming one of the intellectual giants of Islam.

And the fact that she had spoken so dearly of the Prophet was indicative of the innocence of the marriage and of the impeccable character of her husband because given the trust enjoyed by her by the virtue of her relationship with him, she could have unleashed a vengeful attack against him by attributing to him words or deeds of horrendous nature if indeed she was a victim of his supposed lust, destroying both the Prophet and Islam.

No sexual abuse victim would ever spoke positively of her attacker, much less becoming a channel that promote love and understanding of him and the message which he had brought."

What about Mary, Jesus' Mother peace be upon both of them? How old was she when she got pregnant?

Not only was it a custom in the Arab society to Engage/Marry a young girl it was also common in the Jewish society. The case of Mary the mother of Jesus comes to mind, in non biblical sources she was between 11-14 years old when she conceived Jesus. Mary had already been "BETROTHED" to Joseph before conceiving Jesus. Joseph was a much older man. therefore Mary was younger than 11-14 years of age when she was "BETHROED" to Joseph. We Muslims would never call Joseph a Child Molester, nor would we refer to the "Holy Ghost" of the Bible, that "Impregnated" Mary as a "Rapist" or "Adulterer".

According to the Priest of Saint Mary's Catholic Church: "Mary was approximately 14 years old when she got pregnant with Jesus. Joseph, Mary's Husband is believed to be around 36. Mary was only 13 when she married Joseph. When she first was arranged with Joseph she was between 7 to 9 years old."

According to the "Oxford Dictionary Bible" commentary, Mary (peace be upon her) was was 12 years old when she became impregnated.

So if I want to be as silly and ridiculous as many of the Christians, I would respond to them by saying that Mary was psychologically and emotionally devastated for getting pregnant at a very young age. And speaking of "child molesting", since most Christians believe that Jesus is the Creator of this universe, then why did GOD allow himself to enter life through a 12-year old young girl's vagina? Please note that we Muslims love and respect Allah Almighty, Mary, Jesus and Allah's Message to the People of the Book (The Jews and Christians). In other words, we Muslims would never make fun of Christianity through such childish topic like this one as many ridiculous Christians do make fun of Islam through our Prophet's (peace be upon him) marriage.

 

Now coming towards Bible again :

Genesis
Chapter 38
KJV

1 And it came to pass at that time, that Judah went down from his brethren, and turned in to a certain Adullamite, whose name was Hirah. 2 And Judah saw there a daughter of a certain Canaanite, whose name was Shuah; and he took her, and went in unto her. 3 And she conceived, and bare a son; and he called his name Er. 4 And she conceived again, and bare a son; and she called his name Onan. 5 And she yet again conceived, and bare a son; and called his name Shelah: and he was at Chezib, when she bare him. 6 And Judah took a wife for Er his firstborn, whose name was Tamar. 7 And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him. 8 And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. 9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother. 10 And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also. 11 Then said Judah to Tamar his daughter in law, Remain a widow at thy father's house, till Shelah my son be grown: for he said, Lest peradventure he die also, as his brethren did. And Tamar went and dwelt in her father's house.

12 And in process of time the daughter of Shuah Judah's wife died; and Judah was comforted, and went up unto his sheepshearers to Timnath, he and his friend Hirah the Adullamite. 13 And it was told Tamar, saying, Behold thy father in law goeth up to Timnath to shear his sheep. 14 And she put her widow's garments off from her, and covered her with a vail, and wrapped herself, and sat in an open place, which is by the way to Timnath; for she saw that Shelah was grown, and she was not given unto him to wife. 15 When Judah saw her, he thought her to be an harlot; because she had covered her face. 16 And he turned unto her by the way, and said, Go to, I pray thee, let me come in unto thee; (for he knew not that she was his daughter in law.) And she said, What wilt thou give me, that thou mayest come in unto me? 17 And he said, I will send thee a kid from the flock. And she said, Wilt thou give me a pledge, till thou send it? 18 And he said, What pledge shall I give thee? And she said, Thy signet, and thy bracelets, and thy staff that is in thine hand. And he gave it her, and came in unto her, and she conceived by him. 19 And she arose, and went away, and laid by her vail from her, and put on the garments of her widowhood. 20 And Judah sent the kid by the hand of his friend the Adullamite, to receive his pledge from the woman's hand: but he found her not. 21 Then he asked the men of that place, saying, Where is the harlot, that was openly by the way side? And they said, There was no harlot in this place. 22 And he returned to Judah, and said, I cannot find her; and also the men of the place said, that there was no harlot in this place. 23 And Judah said, Let her take it to her, lest we be shamed: behold, I sent this kid, and thou hast not found her.

24 And it came to pass about three months after, that it was told Judah, saying, Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt. 25 When she was brought forth, she sent to her father in law, saying, By the man, whose these are, am I with child: and she said, Discern, I pray thee, whose are these, the signet, and bracelets, and staff. 26 And Judah acknowledged them, and said, She hath been more righteous than I; because that I gave her not to Shelah my son. And he knew her again no more. 27 And it came to pass in the time of her travail, that, behold, twins were in her womb. 28 And it came to pass, when she travailed, that the one put out his hand: and the midwife took and bound upon his hand a scarlet thread, saying, This came out first. 29 And it came to pass, as he drew back his hand, that, behold, his brother came out: and she said, How hast thou broken forth? this breach be upon thee: therefore his name was called Pharez. 30 And afterward came out his brother, that had the scarlet thread upon his hand: and his name was called Zarah.

Well I think the verses are pretty self-explanatory aren’t they? I can assure you that Christian missionaries don’t go preaching this chapter around, I can also assure you that Christian Bible study groups don’t teach this in their seminars neither. As I said most Christians do not even know about this event. You tell them about it and they will call you a liar.


}}} From the Jews' Holiest Book, the Talmud: Girls were married off before at the age of 3.

}}} Some historical evidence shows that Aisha was 19-21 when the Prophet married her.

}}} Some historical evidence shows that Aisha was 19 when the Prophet married her.

}}} A 12-year old Christian girl getting married in Romania.

Child brides as young as 8 (eight) were common among the Byzantine emperors and nobility! The article specifically says they were common and not exceptions!

 

Wow, Now some people will call this AUTHENTIC ????????

I am giving all the replies from Bible which I believed to be Authentic near Christians, But I didn't know there are Religions who Call Newspapers and Unknown sites as Authentic ..

 

You're writing a good deal, and thinking very little.

The critique centers on today's practice, and Menj's advocacy of same.

 

Thanks for your comments. But It will be better if you move to the Authentic topics else of making your own comments.

 

I'm sorry - but I sincerely have no idea what you are trying to say. Come again?

 

Well, I want to say that the words from Us are NOT authetic and will NOt lead us to some conclusion. Why not we get back to our sacred scriptures and check them and live on them if we can call them Authentic.

 

I am sorry - I truly have no idea what you are talking about. Anyone else able to understand this?

 

I am sans clue.

 

Thanks Postingpays for the response BUT Did I ask if marriage for a 9 years old girl is good or bad?

You say:

Menj said very similar and hurried to confirm me when I brought the same justification - or to some people excuse - for Muhammad but he ignored the condition I put there.

Since I don't expect people to search through the posts to find mine and Menj's posts I bring a summary again:

1. You say it was OK in the past that people get married low-aged.
2. We know that marriage for 9 years girls is allowed according to Koran and "Sunna"

From 1 and 2 we can get the following result:
You confirm that not everything that was written in Koran or done by Muhammad can be applied for other times and cultures.

Isn't this deduction logic? Confirm me or explain the contradiction.

By the way, not all the muslims agree with you here:

 

Here you go again - I am betting this is pulled from a muslim"anti-christian" site where they try to make things look different than what they say.

When someone did something wrong, God is not saying it is OK. Men are sinners and each of the great men are shown to be imperfect. You are trying to play others as fools to say otherwise, but this is what those hate-sites do, they lie. The truth is in the scriptures, no where does God condone wrong behavior does He?

Then you add the little list at the end - tell me where Jews have sex with 3 year olds? Or is this just another copy/paste from a hate site?

Do you really think that the Bible says the Holy Spirit had Sex with Mary? Or did you get that far-out idea from a hate site also.

I would go on, but it is pointless when you believe those hate-sites because a muslim wrote that, it must be true, (guess what - it isn't)

 

I would go on to... But, personally since getting slapped with an infraction for debunking the bs, it's probably pointless.

 

Medieval kings married under 10 year olds.

 

Charles Manson killed people.

 

That doesn't surprise me, many power hungry, evil men took little girls to be their wives.

Even today sex slaves are mostly young girls that are kidnapped and forced into things and probably killed off when they get older.