Egyptian Church bombing with 21 Killed- What a way to start the new year.

Please use the correct terminologies, there is nothing wrong with Jihad (if you understand what it means).

It's a sin (bombing), and people commit sins, we can both agree that Muslims are not angels (who don't sin), they are just like anyone else, they make mistakes, but it has nothing to do with their religion.

And how many years did Christianity come after Judaism? And how many years later did Judaism come after many "isms"? You did not think of that did you?

Islaam is not a new religion, it's been here since day 1, it's the religion of ALL the Prophets and Messengers, including Jesus, Moses, Abraham etc, however their religions differ in certain laws and ways, but fundamentally it's the same, furthermore Christianity is an offshoot sect which has deviated from the true teachings of Jesus (Islaam).

--

 

LOL at your first comment about Jihad. I will let you look at the Jihad more here http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=2062585. Jihad is evil I am not talking about sunnies and other Muslim sects.

Islam has been here since 622 A.D when Muhammad saw Gabriel in a cave. I know Judaism came after Christianity but we are not talking about Jews bombing Christians.

 

The term Islam didn't appeared until the VI century . Only someone who skipped history classes would believe such nonsense .

 

Although, I thankfully respect his kind words but we both know the truth here. Does Your Quran encourages you to love Christians and Jews? Does your Quran allows you to deal with them? Can you eat from the food provided by a Jew or a Christian? Finally, does your Quran command you to terrorise the unbelievers?

I can safely assume that you know the answers to all the above questions. Remember, God made us to love each other, be kind to one another and to live in peace. Satan and his kingdom is what leads the weak individuals to descend away from God and that can be in many forms. So, when you have a book that incites hatred, racism and terror towards non-muslims, especially Christians and Jews, leads to only one conclusion - the evil roots of Islam.

I actually visit official pages when copying Quranic verses.

 

Of course not. If Islam was the religion of all those prophets, how come none mentioned any of it? Where are the manuscripts given by Allah to Moses, David, Issiah?

 

@secure site: You are refuted sir and you know it, Ill be visiting you're little thread in a moment.

@Apocalypse: the name Islaam, is just a name, it's different in other languages, such as the languages spoke by previous Prophets and Messengers, so try again.

--

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)

According to your bible sir, your God hates me, why?

And why does you're God hate so many people to the extent that they are going to hell?

Yes I can eat their food, Yes I can deal with them, No I cannot terrorist them unjustly.

Please don't go fishing for Qur'aan verses that you think are opposite to what I'm telling you, I don't want to do much explaining today, just like you don't want to explain bible verses, remember this thread is about the violence in Egypt (which has nothing to do with Islaam).

There is no such thing as "evil roots of Islaam", you made this conclusion based on reading propaganda from Islamophobic sites, so I encourage to be fair, because I can play this game too.

--

 

So you're finally out of hiding . Ready for an argument or are you gonna run behind the Ignore list again ? Do know that a true sunni doesn't hide from Jihad so quit hiding from my words .

If islam existed since the dawn of time why didn't the Coran existed since the dawn of time ?

If islam existed since the dawn of time then over 95% of the human race never pilgrimaged to Mecca , never read the Coran and never prayed 5 times per day . Does your god wants 95% of humanity to burn in hell ?

 

If you insult God, my religion, or the Prophet(s) you are back on my ignore list.

To proceed:

1. I never said the Qur'aan existed, I'm saying Islaam existed (it had different names because of people's languages). The Qur'aan did not exist, because people did not follow the Qur'aan they followed other scriptures such as the Torah, The Gospel of Jesus, the scrolls of Abraham etc, all these scriptures called to Islaam, but the Islaam of today and yesterday differ in certain laws and ways, but the creed is the same.

2. People did not pilgrimiage to mecca because like I said; today's Islaam is different only in certain laws and ways, and pilgrimage is one of them. The creed of the Prophet's and Messengers is always the same.

3. I don't know how many times they prayed, again this is not something pertaining to creed (which is always the same) but it's something that God can change over time.

4. Those who want to go to hell will go to hell (rejectors of Islaam), and the sinners will get punished for their sins, sounds fair to me.

This is not the thread to elaborate on that, but to put it short those religions, which differed in certain branches, laws and ways, were for specific nations and were never meant for all mankind, Prophets and Messengers came after one another to either; continue old laws or abolish them until the last and final Messengers came, Muhammad (peace be upon him), his religion (which fundamentally has not changed) is for all of mankind until the day of judgment.

So now that you know this, there is no need to preserve old scriptures, man has lost them, and God did not preserve them because there is no need for them, and an excellent example is the Gospel of Jesus, which you do not have, rather you have something written years after Jesus, not written from scratch, but plagiarized from the real Gospel of Jesus, it now contains lots of fabrications, God allowed this to happen because he never wanted to preserve it.

The Qur'aan however, has been and will be preserved and protected from corruption until the day of judgment, for the reason that mankind is in need of it, there are no more Prophets or Messengers that will come who will bring new scriptures, this promise from Allaah we have found true, for 1400 years there are no additions or deletions from the Qur'aan.

You also asked why you're scriptures do not mention Islaam , the simple answer is that your scriptures are edited by men, perhaps both deliberately and accidentally, but we still find things in common in the midst of all the falsehood.


Back to the topic at hand.

 

Ya that was effective last time . Every time you ignore a infidel you are making a sin by ignoring the 6th pillar .

So the Bible and Torah are equal to the Coran . Therefore the Torah should be worshiped just like the Coran . Why isn't every muslim reading the Torah ? Why isn't the Bible the holy book of Islam ?

So over 95% of all humanity that ever lived should burn in hell and so must another 5 billion people that are alive today . Why would your god create man if it would make it burn in hell ? A benevolent creator would never do that .

 

Not true.

Well first of all you must understand that the real Torah is corrupted, it's no longer what God revealed, same with the Gospel of Jesus, which is also corrupted by men who claimed to be inspired by God, hence we have what is known as the "bible" ( and attributed to Jesus) that was written years and years after Jesus and contains serious discrepancies.

Nobody should follow/read either the Torah or the Bible, because a) they are corrupted, and b) the original scriptures (which are now lost) were not for all of mankind but for a specific nation and now abrogated by the Qur'aan.

I can put this same argument to you, why is your God putting so much people in to hell.

But to answer this question, we first must ask you where you get this 95% figure from?

To give you a general answer: people will go to hell for rejecting clear cut revelation from God, and those sinners amongst the Muslims also go to hell unless forgiven, but they will not abide therein forever, they will eventually come out, hell is eternal for Atheists and Polytheists, and those who reject Islaam. Allaah is just, he is not like the God of the bible who never claims to be God (not once) but he punishes to hell for not believing that he is God, that's what I call injustice.

 

Israel,

Again, I ask you a question & you pull out the old tactic hoping to find a comparison to my original question in the bible. Again, do not take verses out of context. Read. Did you even read the verse and comprehended what was being said?
Like I told you before, this is not the topic for debating verses.

Looks like you need much more Islamic reading to catch up with.
PS: You missed to answer the one about "loving" your Christian and Jewish brothers & sisters in humanity

Sure, so go ahead and do not change the topic any further.

No, I made that conclusion from the Quran and authorized Islamic hadiths.

 

And that's the issue here, you make conclusions based on nothing but misunderstood verses, this is how Christian missionaries operate - propaganda.

Just remember that 2 can play this game.

My work here is done.

 

We'll leave that for another topic to decide who really misunderstood those verse.

 

Apolcalypse, Luke and SP arguing - Just classic Comedy ;D

 

So Jihad isn't a essential part of Islam for a sunni ?

What do you mean that the Torah is corrupted ? The book didn't changed , and God doesn't change . The Bible was written by the apostles and by holy men . How can a holy book be abrogated. For something holy to be abrogated either i was never holy to begin whit or it means that your god changes whit time - therefore it is a creature affected by the flow of time . So why would the Coran be better then the Bible or Torah ?

Actually God isn't gonna trow into hell someone that has done good deeds on this life , even if you're not a Christian so even a atheist like stOx can get into heaven .

The 95% is a rough estimate of the human population that lived and died and never followed your book .

 

If holy is what you like to call it.

 

Historians will tell you the bible has been changed, originally it was not even called "bible", hence now you see many Christian sects, each claiming to know what the correct bible is, some sects have as much as entire books within the bible omitted, let alone verses.

But this is irrevelant because a) the religion of Jesus was for a specific nation and b) it's been abrogated by God with the Qur'aan, which is NOT for a specific nations, e.g. the arabs, but for all of mankind.

You also asked why a book has to be abrogated, then I can put the same argument to you, why do Christians no longer follow the old testament?

Scriptures were abrogated because God willed so, and the wisdom behind it perhaps is that people back in time were different to today's people and perhaps they needed easier/stricter laws etc. But the "creed" never changes, it's only the laws like how many times to pray a day, direction of prayer (which once used to be Jerusalem), prohibition of alcohol (which once was allowed) etc.

This is according to you, not according to God.

You still have not understood, the people of old did not follow the Qur'aan they had their own scriptures to follow.

Your 95% rate is totally baseless.

 

What happens if mankind doesn´t want it and says that your God and Prophet is full it and it was good enough to fool uneducated Arabs but intelligent people don´t accept such BS?