United States Heading towards a Depression?

So if you know who they are and what they do why aren't you out there pointing them out to immigration? Or is government unwilling to follow them up when you do that so there's no point?

Sounds like your problem should be with the law and its loopholes. We all know there's criminal minds everywhere & that is just one case you describe, which I agree, if that was the case, you made the right decision. It may also have been the defendant did take advantage of his worker, because she was an illegal, which I suspect happens more often than we know.

As I said, that's one case you describe so to take that as 'the norm' would be like you using me as spokesman for my country...silly really when I only speak from my own heart.

However, a temporary green card for victims does sound like a strange inducement.

I think people everywhere, that's illegals or legals, will more often than not try to scheme a way to their favorable outcomes. I bet there's just as many Americans transgressing on the illegal immigrants just because they're illegals. People are people, they will always scheme & conspire to reach a goal...how can I get away with that? is the first thought of most...you know they say the difference between you & most people in jail is you haven't been caught yet!

Whilst I think there is a case against them sending US money elsewhere right now, especially after Bush & his cronies wiped out your economy, but I don't think the 'illegals' US crime rates is adding too much more to an already overwhelming problem from the legals living there. I'm sure if you looked you would find at least ten times more 100% legal Americans in America scheming their illegal plans right now whereas the majority of illegal immigrants will be lying low & not commiting any crimes, just trying to avoid detection.

 

That is the most complicated thing to do. It will be like asking every division of law enforcement to do just the same thing. Ask each individual if he's a mob, a drug dealer, a Neo-Nazi, or a plain and simple criminal. Which you answered already in your post.

Thanks Bushranger. I don't know why you get it and others don't.

 

That's what I think too. I don't think the government will try too hard at all when push comes to shove because capitalists know how these people are helping to keep many of the big corporates afloat. Somebody has to buy those hamburgers to keep the circle flowing. Taking them out of the system now will send them all broke & bankrupt, unemployment rising etc.. They're needed.

When you think of the big business and corporates that don't own their buildings, they rent them. And when there's 300 million people to cater to you rent a lot of big buildings, buy & lot of product and build themselves up to cater to 300 million people knowing that by selling good product continuously they can afford to pay all their bills. Once people start dropping from the system these companies, that still pay rent for all their buildings and have huge outgoings, will only last so long before they start laying the groundwork for another race to the bottom. Whilst business is struggling to stay afloat as it is, now is not the time to be taking customers away from them.

I have a heart ?

 

Indeed, they are needed right now. Virtually the U.S. economy will collapse without them. Businesses large or small wants cheap immigrant labor, but don't want the immigrants. Besides it its all about ethnic advocacy and business interests.

 

Its not a problem with the law. The law is just fine. The problem is with a government that wont enforce its law. Maybe you didn't notice the elections last month, but the party of illegal aliens took a "shellacking" in the president's words. New laws are also being made in 40 out of 50 states to allow them to do the job the federal government is too busy groping grandma to do.

Until recently, there have been no laws against employers hiring these people. Those laws are now coming, and people will respect them. Your statement implies everyone ignores the legal system. It is simply untrue.

So the argument you are trying to make without any facts to back it up is that illegal aliens commit less crimes as a percent of the population because they don't want to get busted for the laws they are already breaking. They are less likely to be criminals because they are already criminals. Seems like a counter productive argument to me.

So now your argument turns to an appeal for cronie capitalism and the desperate plight of big business? Wow!

You should acquaint yourself with the immigration laws of almost any country on the planet. Invariably, most of those laws stipulate a minimum net worth and income level. Why? Because poverty stricken people take more out of a country in social programs than they add by consumption, especially in light of the fact they expatriate most of their earnings. Take your argument up with the lawmakers in your own country and almost every other. They obviously see a problem where you do not.

Day would turn dark as night. The skies would open up, and the seas would turn to blood. The dead would rise from their graves and famine would spread across the land. Enforcing the law would the beginning of the end of times, my friends.

You don't need to put the word "immigrant" in cheap labor, and the statement remains equally true. Business want cheap labor. Is this where you start to tell us we should do away with labor unions to help businesses and their need for cheap labor? How about the minimum wage? You ready to do away with that? After all, businesses need cheap labor.

Obviously it isn't businesses who don't want the illegal immigrants. It is the workers who are losing jobs to them, or having their wages slashed by them. It is the taxpayers who are picking up the tab and having their votes diluted until preventing the government from turning into Greece or California is unpreventable.

I'll grant you that. Business interests for backroom deals that are bad for the American people are one of the big reasons for the recent landslide election. Ethnic advocacy and electioneering is more insidious because those ushering in all those new poor people who will vote Democrat, do so out of self interest without a need for a cronie from the business community. It is corrosive as hell.

 

SSA on illegal immigration ? Most said they don't care but the cheesy part is prior to the Bush administration they have surplus of funds. In 2005 alone, the 7 million illegal workers provided the system with a subsidy of 7 billion $. It is called an Earnings Suspense File, since the taxes came from fictitious numbers. The funds mushroomed through the years and estimated to be growing more.

Yes, just like Wal-Mart sent their production overseas.

I thought it was both parties. Republicans and Democrats.

 

Assuming you have facts to back up the statement above, lets analyze it. Does it address medicare, food assistance, EITC, and unemployment benefits paid to these people to determine a net gain or loss on the back of the taxpayer? No. Does it address hospital losses incurred treating patients without legal residency status and no ability to pay? No. Does it address the direct cost of education and housing anchor babies who invariably live below the poverty line? No. All of these costs, and many more, make the SSA impound funds on 7 million illegals working on stolen identities(out of 20 million illegals, the rest of whom don't pay any taxes at all), a drop in the bucket.

If the net effect of millions of impoverished people entering the country illegally was a positive one, you would have no problem getting the existing law changed to simply let them in legally.

Wal-mart sent production overseas because of illegal immigrants? Trying to figure out what your argument is here.

When it comes to illegal immigrants, it is pretty much just Democrats. They don't vote Republican you know. Dems are pushing to make Puerto Rico a state for the same reason.

 

I think you haven't got it yet. There are no benefits.,since illegal immigrant workers are here illegally, and ostensibly presented fake ID to the US employer, they will never collect Social Security benefits. For illegal immigrants, Social Security numbers are just simply a tool needed to work on this side of the border. Retirement does not even enter the picture, though.
The Social Security Administration remains solvent in large part due to deductions taken from the paychecks of illegal immigrant workers, yet Social Security will never pay benefits to those workers. The workers pay in, but they never receive back.

That I'll take. People who go for treatment or whatever hospital incur losses when they don't pay. Most of the illegal immigrants in the DC, VA, MD area have Health Insurance provided by employers. I really have no idea what goes on in California. Reason is they have fictitious numbers and most insurance companies just go ahead and provide them.

Poverty line ? LOL you need to visit the Mid Atlantic and see the houses/apartments and cars they have. As for the hourly pay ? It's not their fault if they get more than average American pay. Small business like them. Plain and simple fact.

In 1999, under President Bill Clinton, the US government collected $3.69 million in fines from 890 companies for employing undocumented workers. In 2004, under President George Bush, the federal government collected $188,500 from 64 companies for such illegal employment practices. And in 2004, the Bush Administration levied NO fines for US companies employing undocumented workers. That looks like both to me.

 

FYI, the unemployment insurance payment an employer makes does not increase when an employee is laid off.
Breeze, what country are you from? Er, I mean, planet?

 

I didn't list Social Security retirement benefits in the long list of taxpayer costs incurred by illegals. The rest of those benefits they most definitely collect.

Making a statement like that requires the presentation of facts. Now would be a good time to do that. Obviously the idea that 7 million people keep a system with 250 million other contributors afloat is laughable at face value.

Facts please.

More than average American pay? So more than 40-50k/year or 20-25$ an hour? Again, facts please.

Yah, Bush thought it was cool to use taxpayer funds to cure AIDS in Africa too. If your argument is that Bush and Clinton should have done a better job penalizing employers for hiring illegals, I wholeheartedly agree.

 

The problem with this is - the government has created a climate whereby employers are forced to do this to make a profit. Its that or send the jobs out of the country.

Just think if Democrats would stop giving illegals licenses and other forms of (so they can vote for liberals) identification that makes them look legal, there'd be less of a problem.

 

Maybe the newspapers were wrong.

Not that much. The landscaping guys earns 12 bucks an hour.


As for the latinos here just drop by when you have the time I will give you the tour.

And for the rest

 

You're new to this topic so I'll fill you in on the political reality.

Illegal immigrants take jobs away from lower income people, yes. But politically, they're good for business so the city doesn't want to do anything to upset local businesses. Besides that, local police are forbidden from enforcing federal immigration laws. And, with the lack of enforcement that's been the norm in the USA for the past 20 years, plus the lack of an Arizona-type law, INS can't just walk in. Understand?

Politicians don't want to enforce illegal immigration laws because while that would get approval from the lower-income voters they take jobs away from, enforcement would piss off big businesses that make campaign contributions.

Politicians don't want to wipe away illegal immigration laws because while wiping them away would please big businesses that make campaign contributions, it would make angry the lower-income voter they take jobs away from,

So, politicians ignore the problem. Understand?

No, this country's problem is a government that won't enforce the existing laws. Immigration, BP, Wall Street, Shearson... Understand?

How many people has Obama sent to jail for the outrageous corruption that led to the collapse of the economy?

Since you did not sit on the jury your statement is clearly useless.

You speak from ignorance and lack of experience.

Since you are once again speaking from ignorance, let me help you.

People here illegally are afraid to report crimes against others and themselves because they are afraid of being deported. Since the Constitution protects everyone regardless of whether they have been here legally or not, offering a temporary green card tells the illegal "no, you won't be deported, it's SAFE to report the crime".

"If a system can be gamed, it will."
-Bill Clinton

Ah, now you are revealing your true ignorance.

BushRanger, you must be very young, because nothing you have written hints of any experience.

 

Anyway I'm off this thread. Great arguments by the way. We're not going to go anywhere. Bottom line is unless the government fixes its law theres nothing we can do. Meanwhile I'm almost near retirement and will just savor my 3 story building of 9 rooms 4 living rooms 2 kitchens 6.5 bathrooms upon retirement (that's in the Philippines). I'll sell my house here in Md for a cheap price and just take home the money since its almost payed. Just to supplement my retirement benefits from the government which I earned by the way and would just go to my house in the beach from time to time.

How I love to be an immigrant LOL

 

Misleading, but not wrong. Like your earlier argument, the article focuses on the inability of illegals to withdraw social security retirement benefits, despite the fact some contribute. It ignores the enormous other costs produced by illegal immigration which I pointed out earlier. You need fresh material.

I thought this quote from your article was humorous.

I love it. Somehow this identity thief and criminal earning a low wage is contributing more to the US Social Security fund than a small business that hires US citizens and immigrants of legal status. Articles like this are the reason journalists have so little credibility these days.

And the construction guys make 15-18/hr, capping out at 25 for a foreman. It's still a far cry from your claim they are being paid more than the average American.

You make the claim these illegals all make a higher wage than an average American citizen, pay all their taxes, and receive employer based insurance. Most liberals claim illegals take jobs Americans don't want. Which is it?

More trolling . Spend your(my) money where you like man. PI is a interesting place. I got a friend who is a merchant marine. Spends 8 months of the year on a boat. The other three he devotes to his two separate families(with kids) on separate islands in PI. He says there is virtually no risk of one discovering the other, because they can't afford to travel. I guess impoverished populations can be useful .

 

Why is there 16% unemployment in the land of opportunities? Why is it that 50 million people can't find jobs in US while 900 million can find one in India and 1 billion in China? Maybe overpaid workers not willing to work for cheaper have something to with this? Maybe forceful or voluntary wage cuts will bring down costs of business and help avoid lay-offs or even help expand?

So if you are patriotic enough and want to see your country out of unemployment - Take a Cut, rather than blame the people who are just helping businesses fulfill their needs.

 

The stupidity of this statement is beyond belief . I can understand you wanting to be proud of your crappy country . All the chest beating only covers the bitterness or it's deeply implanted in some people DNA to brag about how beautiful your house is when the firefighters are all over the place .

Here's something great to do for the US economy : cut outsourcing and stop importing from China . Then we will see the most overpopulated places collapse . If you are so patriotic Helvetii why not become whitehat and try to give your country a good name . Or it's the new Indian ideal to be a thief and brag about it ?

 

State unemployment rates increase for the specific Co. if the dismissed employee files for compensation rather than finding new employment.

 

Nonsense, what happened to the great free market principles and no government intervention and "let businesses do whatever they want"? If businesses want do hire workers in foreign countries because Americans don't want to work at fair rates, then thats that.

You are a hypocrite and you know it. All religious people are. All conservatives are.

No thanks, the central bank here is very happy with half a million dollars in foreign exchange it gets from me and 5 million rupees the government gets in tax. I'm sure the Romanian government is also very happy with the $100 a week its citizens like you send back home after thieving, begging and engaging in sex trade all over "EU".

Oh! Romania..such a great country..so great that its citizens are ashamed to even admit they are from there and say that they are from "the EU"

P.S. I appreciate you repping me "Happy new year" in Area51 just because your rep was in the 90's and you wanted to reach hundred to get 2 blobs..fast. You are Welcome.

 

Perhaps you misunderstood what you said and what I replied to you about your statement?