United States Heading towards a Depression?

So let me get this straight, Americans are descendant of violent criminals kicked out of their country?

 

Thank you for admitting how different you are than your countrymen. It reaffirms my faith in Australia/Australians.

Thank you for taking the time to educate yourself a bit. Now study a bit more, revisit your earlier statement which implied the American Revolution was in protest of becoming a penal colony, and figure out who it was that populated America before and during the 18th century.

Unrelated problem, and not even measurable by the same stick, considering the type of poverty many of those illegals are fleeing. The irony of watching illegals flee failing socialist economies to try and turn our country into one.


[Edit]

Helvetii was trying to imply i've spoken out against legal immigration. I was simply pre-empting some stupid comment he was likely to make about H1B being an immigration program, since I have spoken out about H1B in the past.

Yes Helvetii. Bushranger says it is so, and therefore it must be true.

 

After a background check, I would take them all here as would many Australians but, as it stands today I would accept that probably less than 20% of our population would truly accept that straight-out proposal. But, if we started populating middle Australia by building new towns for them out there rather than flood the existing infrastructure, most Australians, and I would bet more than 80% of us would happily accept them all here (we know its a huge empty country but are worried of our already stretched infrastructure becoming even moreso).

I understand capitalism needs more and more people joining the system in order to work properly so I wouldn't question bringing in non violent, able-bodied or self supportive immigrants any time, whether plane or boat arrivals, it can only add to our system and make it a better system. McDonalds needs more customers every day in order to expand it's business. Michelin needs the same to expand, a growing customer base, as does every business that wants to grow. When it runs out of additional customers, it stops growing. The more people you have, as long as you have the right infrastructure ready for them, the better (& longer) capitalism will work. Capitalism needs a constantly growing population to sustain it, a declining population would prove the end of capitalism, growth is the main factor that runs the system.

 

Unrelated.

It was meant for Rob. Rob and I had our time in this Forum so he knows me quite well. This was since the early stages of the internet. We were on the opposite sides.

Sorry about that. (A public apology )

 

Yes, totally. Many are direct descendants of English criminals though the country would have needed a few guards and more immigrants to take up land, do the whippings & sometimes even feed their prisoners. But how many more little criminals did those 60,000 big criminals create over the whole 60 years they were being brought in to make the population around 2.5 million in 1776 (which doesn't include natives or blacks) is anybody's guess.

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release...cts_for_features_special_editions/004772.html

 

Many of the illegal aliens are quite wealthy. They send all their money home to buy houses and land and are at the same time on welfare.

There should be an income tax on wires to foreign countries unless you can show that you are legally in the US and have filed a tax return.

The argument is that going forward, there isn't money to provide the social benefits to millions of low skilled immigrants. You can blame the illegal aliens for that. Already 20 million illegal aliens have jumped to the front of the line.

Sanctuary states like California are going broke!

 

Just to set the history straight...
The US was developed as a colony of the crown initially, but not as a penal colony. Later it became common for criminals convicted of various crimes to receive a sentence of "Transportation for X years"... where X = the time of the sentence. Violent criminals were more likely to be sentenced to hanging at the time (as shown in the docket attached) or branding. The ones banished to the colonies often included those caught in petty crimes.

They weren't simply sent over here and turned loose... that would've been a tad too easy. They were to serve as indentured servants. The ships captain actually sold them at auction to the highest bidder on arrival in port. Some were paid wages, but essentially during that time they were to do as directed by the guy to whom they were now assigned for the term of the sentence. Sort of a hardcore version of "community service".

In the process of doing genealogy research I ran across one such member in my family in a branch of a maternal line... a fellow by the name of James Haycraft convicted of petty theft. Apparently he was a chimney sweep, and he and a buddy by the name of Samuel Smytheman did a little burglary of a shop to fatten their purse. The wives were caught trying to fence the goods and told the tale. He was sentenced to 7 yrs banishment as the indentured servant of George Neville & then John Neville. His wife was not so sentenced (she was acquitted apparently on a technicality) and remained behind in England. James arrived here aboard the prison ship Justitia in 1743. He remarried while in the employ of Neville, had three sons, and he and the new wife died (apparently in an epidemic) when the oldest boy was 12.

The boys, far from becoming criminals, were raised with Neville's own son, and later served under Neville's command in the American revolution (he was one of Washingtons generals)... taking things full circle. Their dad had been booted from England, they in turn helped boot England from the colonies. The sons later moved to Kentucky and helped establish that state. One ended up serving as a minister there. John Neville (the guy that raised 'em) stayed in Virginia vicinity and ended up being famous as the US government official that was ducking gunshots while escorting a US Marshal when the whiskey rebellion broke out in response to taxes he was supposed to be collecting.

Genealogy is an interesting little hobby. Never know what you'll find on the branches of the ever-expanding geometric progression that creates the tapestry from which we spring. I've run across some interesting stories, including a set of families that bailed outta Ireland when things were getting pretty dicey, revolutionary war vets, guys on both sides of our civil war. An old Confederate cavalry captain named Reeves moved from Tennessee to this part of Texas after the war and raised his grandchild (my great grandmother) when both of her parents died young.

The Jones and Hedgecoke crews (my grandfather and grandmothers names) helped settle the Texas Panhandle around Shamrock, Exum, Borger, Sunray, Plemons, etc. My grandfather worked as cowboy on the 4 Sixes ranch, later as a west Texas sheriff (apparently he earned the moniker "Two Gun Jones"... even I remember Grand-dad as a bit of a hardass), and a lotta the early postmasters and county officials were in my grandmother's crew.

Having a criminal or two back up the line is likely a fact in any family tree if you look long enough. [I ran into one set in early Maryland that made old James Haycraft of London look like a saint... kept seeing references to them being charged with stuff, then acquitted when witnesses died or dissappeared.] From the vantage point of history, it's more interesting than worrisome.

Picture below shows the Crown docket sentencing James Haycraft to banishment in the colonies.

 

Not a chance. We've already seen how your culture has responded to attempts at Islamisation by the Muslims you have legally accepted. You think the response to Latinzation would be any different? Australians are very proud of their culture, and rightly so.

That aside, many of the illegal aliens smuggled across our southern border are used as/accompanied by armed drug smugglers. Obviously the construction of all those tunnels cost money to build. Aside from the cultural and economic issues, I'm sure Australians would be in absolute favor of opening up a pipeline for drugs and criminality. Not.

Now your argument is, "Do it for Capitalism"? I've never heard a socialist take a tact like that. Amusing. Reality is, offloading massive amounts of poor people into a nation with many state sponsored social programs causes government funding shortages. When the US was still about "send us your poor", we had almost no labor protection, no minimum wage, no free public K-12 education, no Medicare, no Social Security. It wasn't random chance that the institution of all those state run programs in the US was coincident with the birth of our immigration rules. I'm fairly certain Australia has way more social programs than the US, which is why your immigration laws are not only stricter, but more strictly enforced. If you wanted to repeal all your socialist legislation, then I would 100% agree. Dump in a poor labor force to be exploited and your economy would boom.

LMAO. 60,000 turned into 2.5 million in 60 years. You are a genius my friend. Why don't you do the math and tell me how many offspring each of those criminals would have had to produce in that amount of time.

Having only anecdotal evidence on this from living in Central America, I have to disagree. Those who get to America usually have had their families save up the 5-10k$ it takes to get a coyote(Human Trafficker) smuggle them into America. Several of my employees took that path while I was down there and most made just over a dollar an hour. You are spot on about wiring the money back though. One guy I knew had been living in the US illegally for 25 years and had moved back to Central America after sending all of his wages as a painter back to his wife. He was making 8-10$ an hour while all his neighbors in Central America were earning ~1$ an hour, and his wife used his high wages over 25 years to leverage the best real estate deals that could be made. Knowing of just two of the properties he owns, he has a net worth in excess of $USD 8 million. I guess that makes him rich in Obama terms, but he didn't start out that way.

 

Bushyranger

So what say yee of those of us that are part Native and Part Alien? Legal in both senses of course? Some of the folks from overseas mixed with the local population?

 

You still twisting I see. FTR I asked how many, out of a 2.5 million population in 1776, did those 60,000 people turn into? Not that they turned into 2.5 million (the whole population). ie: what percentage out of the 2.5 million would have been descendants? Never said that every one of them was. I also said there were guards & farmers needed to keep prisoners in check. I would guess around 300,000 out of the 2.5 million population were descendants of said crims. Remember, going back was a capital offense so the ones that weren't killed by terrible masters remained there forever. The 300,000 figure is a complete guess.

We are a youngish nation that's bigger than USA but with only 25 million people spread throughout. Our land mass could easily handle 10 times that amount. We had a population debate in 2010 which resulted in the lack of infrastructure argument being pulled out. From that debate it seemed most of us do want immigration to grow & flourish here but we don't want to have to wait in line at the supermarket because there's suddenly a whole lot more people there. I'm sure some smart person can figure out a business case to get them re-settled, and one day I do believe that will happen.

 

So taking the time to read my post wasn't in the cards? These weren't people that had to be guarded... England executed the hardcore criminals and sent guys that did minor stuff here to do some years of community service. Look at the sample docket provided, read the links. That's history, not an opinion. What would being their decedent mean? I'm one. By the time his own kid served at Valley Forge... nobody after that cared what his birth father had done in his youth. In the real world, it means nothing what some relative did three centuries ago.

 

Actually I read & even enjoyed your post, i'm into convict history. It's the most interesting post I've seen you write. I just read it again and there's nothing countering the 60,000 crims that were sent there. What did you want me to add more? The 60,000 figure is people that were sent there, the amount doesn't take into account the 100,000+ crims they hung. It's the amount that were sent there charged with an offense.

I would also add being a descendant of a criminal is not something to be ashamed of. You're not responsible for what other people do and most of the so called crimes would be laughed at today. Many here are pleased when they actually find a convict in their histories as many know they were just pawns for an empire wanting to expand and wouldn't really be called criminals today.

 

Jut pointing out they werent hardcore, and have long since been assimilated. In the case I wrote the guys sons blended into polite society. Long since a non-issue.

 

It is a sure thing. Where is Breeze Wood... ? Look at that ""... it is a joke, okay ?

 

Thanks for the new word.

 

I just make it up as I go along, as you know .

@Bushranger: You got 25 million, but you can handle 10x that amount(250mil) with a land mass larger than the US. Why would you be pushing mass immigration on the US when our population is 308 million and a smaller land mass? Do you have any idea what overpopulation does? Obviously you wouldn't wish it on Australia, so its quite a bit of hypocrisy.

 

News :

"The only solvent state in the nation today is North Dakota. They are also the only state with a state-owned bank."

LINK


Hmmm.... "state owned bank" ?

 

I'm not pushing any immigration in the US. I'm just saying I don't think it's right to blame them for your troubles.

 

Apple never fall far from the tree.

 

Thank you at last somebody got it.