Yes, I am saying it is a good job. You can't comprehend how, and you never will, which is understandable. Not many can, which is why they don't last. I came to the industry as I have been into cooking since I was 8 or so, learned French technique by 11 or so, and was doing multi-course prix fixe dinners by my pre-teens. I have worked every station in the kitchen - from slop dude to Chef-Owner. Front of house, I have worked from runner to captain. "Illegals work it" for many reasons. From what I have seen, it is an industry they can work; and, more, an industry curiously low on workplace politics. Most places I worked, you stay quiet, stay humble, and prove your mettle, you will advance. To wit: In my last kitchen, the last two garde-manger were not drawn from the hallowed halls of culinary school. They were, formerly, the dishwashers. They showed they had the desire to learn, cared to do a finished job (clean means clean), and worked hard. In other words, by showing me they cared to do their job well, and that they wanted to learn more, they earned every bit of my trust, and the added pay from my scarce payroll monies. The bottom line - what I know I very much want to share, provided the person warrants my teaching it. And "the illegals" I have known have been among the best folks for such mentorship. They have enriched me and taught me from their histories, personal and professional. Ferret, as you continue to speak from a position of no-knowledge, and no-experience, you, sir, are "full of it." Your ossified viewpoint has so clouded your eyes that you refuse to see that the real world may, in fact, hold a truth that belies your ill-informed theory.
You know illegals used to clean the boothes at this strip arcade this girl I used to date worked at, that must be a good job too, I just can't see it are you kidding? its really great that you love to cook and others do to or whatever but dish washing is not a good job, its a shitty job, and most people who wash dishes arn't on the fast track to being chef just like people who pick fruit arn't on the way to owning a farm yeah sure, dishwashing and busing tables is a kickass job, is that what you actually trying to say? I worked in kitchens from 14 to 18 when thank god I was old enough to work at a warehouse
If the folks who fail to understand economics ever do manage succeed in their goals, I am certain that they will be very surprised to see food prices double. Then they will cry foul and vote to implement price caps on food, because the inflation in food costs must obviously be the result of greedy farmers. Then they will implement more welfare programs, because poor people won't be able to afford to eat because food is suddenly expensive in America. Then they will raise taxes to pay for their new social welfare programs. Then they will vote to extend unemployment coverage to all the people who were put out of work by the higher tax rates. Then they will raise taxes again to pay for all money we're paying out in unemployment benefits. But hey, I suppose it's all worth it to, in the words of Mr. Garrison, "get rid of all the Mexicans."
well then we should get rid of all the social programs and the mexicans that would be good , do you all the giant fat people all around of course in terms of food that require picking, that only accounts for like 10% of the cost, so the price of labor would have to go up like 10 times what it is to make prices double
<Sigh>. Ferret, try to wrap your mind around the following; all of it comes from the real world, at least the one I've lived the last several decades: 1.The restaurant industry is not the agri-business industry; With desire, talent, and character, a dishwasher can advance; actually, in terms of job mobility, this is the restaurant business. It is based on advancement opportunity, as much as it is based on Fuck You, Get Out, if you are a whiner or otherwise not up to snuff. There are so many stories of such advancement it is redundant to repeat them here; an agri-worker may not, or may advance - I cannot speak for the industry as I don't know it. 2. If a dishwasher views his job as shitty, and does a shitty job, I guarantee he will not be a dishwasher for long; if he wants a better job, as being a dishwasher is not his dream, and he does a good job, I can equally guarantee you, in the kitchens where I've been a part, that dishwasher will move to food-side; and the opportunity for advancement from there is among the best in any industry. You continue to post along the lines of "yeah, right, and my Aunt Edith is...," which unfortunately lends nothing to your theories. They remain a construct in your mind.
Well, that certainly made a kind of sense. 14 to 18 years of age. In the States? So you worked about, what, 2 hours a day, 3 days per week? And this really showed you the nature of the "100 hour workweek" kitchen? This is the "history" that you are basing your arguments on? Against such enviable persuasive power, like my pal, the day-worker tormenting jokester TS tbarr, I will have to admit defeat and move on.
Whatever he's got, I want some. Whatever prompted "that would be good , do you all the giant fat people all around" - that's gotta feel good!
ferret, you are either incredibly sheltered, or very young, in which case I will call to mind Harry Truman's observation that it's what you learn after you know it all that really counts.
yeah ok dish washing is a great job, it must because I am so sheltered that I can't see what a great job it is maybe I should go work in kitchen awhile so I can become as worldly as you guys
I worked usually 4 hour shifts, and then 8-10 hour shifts on the weekend, way over what child labor laws allow, but either way you don't have to work 100 hours a week to see how much washing dishes sucks
ferret, in my life I have washed dishes, painted, dug ditches, built pallets, assembled scaffolding (that was fun!), unloaded trucks, set up banquets, cleaned hotels, and god only knows what else. Honestly, I can't remember half of the day laboring jobs that I've had. And you know what? They were all honest jobs and I am proud to have done them all. I am proud to have been a productive human being that was paying my own way. I haven't had a "real job" in the last seven years, but I am still paying my own way. And how do I do it? I do it now the same way as I did it then -- by providing business value to others. It's you who want to take those dishwashing jobs away from people who want them. That's just a pure mean streak showing itself. Perhaps your avatar should be a skunk.
I don't know, I had fun with it. Did you have one of those really cool dishwashing machines where you just slid the dishes in and lowered the machine over them -- and then you pulled the handle and the dishes were clean about 60 seconds later? Man, can you imagine the violence that goes on inside that machine? I was always amazed that more dishes didn't come out broken. I need one of those for the house.
I don't really care who does the dishwashing as long as its not me, I just think business owners are full of crap when they say stuff like "I need illegals to stay in business" or and when people say "illegals are great becuse they such hard workers" they mean is they work hard for cheaper You don't agree with that, Will? what happened you didn't run the restaurant after that? food service industry has such a fast track to the top apparently, that I missed
OK then! We'll buy slaves! Or, we'll get college grads to do it, and your chicken fried steak will cost $47.12. What will happen when labor costs skyrocket? For restaurants, people will stay home and cook more. The restaurants will go out of business. For food producers, imported food will become less expensive than locally produced food and the local farmers will go out of business. The real winners in this will be Mexico, because that's the closest place for all of the farming activity to move to. Of course, they will need to build one hell of a lot of infrastructure and irrigation. I have zero talent for that industry. My wife spent another two thousand dollars at Williams-Sonoma yesterday. My role? Carrying boxes. My idea of cooking is heating up a Little Juan Beef and Bean Burrito (the ones on the green wrappers) in the microwave for 90 seconds.
so businesses should break the law? if a law makes someone uncompetitive thats too bad, either change the law or deal with it
We should definitely change the law. That is going to require an enormous effort to educate voters and lawmakers in the laws of basic economics.
I don't know, but it looks like if you don't own a business that requires labororers, illegals don't seem to be too good a deal http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/immigrationnaturalizatio/a/caillegals.htm they could be full of crap but how much money is really saved by the average person by the country housing all these illegals, who cares if it cost a few bucks more to eat at restaurants? or a few bucks more to have fresh produce?
Actually, that reminds me. I have *been* an illegal alien. I've done IT projects all over the globe, and I'm quite certain that my paperwork was not always 100% correct. So I was taking a job away from some poor Norwegian, Brit, Colombian, Netherlander, Austrian, etc... and charging $200/hr to do it. On the point of how much immigrants cost us -- that is 100% our fault. If we decide to give them benefits, that is not their fault. You know me ferret, I don't want to give welfare to anyone. I believe that it hurts people in the long run. I'll tell you who -- poor people. I've been poor. Despicably poor. I've gone without meals because I didn't have money for food. Those people don't need a bunch of rich white people who just want to get rid of all of the Mexicans. But really, that's an emotional argument. The real honest economic argument takes us right back to the laws or supply and demand. Do you remember what that graph looks like? It's a constant increase and decrease. If you raise supply, you will lower demand. You may not be able to identify which consumer you're turning off, but that consumer is still there.