Slavery and religion

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by babak44, Dec 2, 2010.

  1. #1
    babak44, Dec 2, 2010 IP
  2. mdvasanth86

    mdvasanth86 Notable Member

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    #2
    Slavery was there is every religion / country .
    Just that the type of treatment and the extent to which people were given rights were different.
    Imperialism and colonialism always had slavery attached to it.
     
    mdvasanth86, Dec 2, 2010 IP
  3. babak44

    babak44 Active Member

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    #3
    do you think, it is because of God willing or human nature?
    if it is human nature then why religion didn't try to correct us?
    we also have leader who condemn slavery before these three religion.
    wikipedia shown different view!
    again
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_and_religion

     
    babak44, Dec 2, 2010 IP
  4. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #4
    Before any of our less educated members start claiming that Muhammad or Islam are against slavery, everyone should read Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars:Slavery. Muhammad supported kidnapping and enslavement and he supported the use of these kidnapping victims as sex slaves.

    Or, as Saudi Sheikh Saleh Al-Fawzan said in 2003, "Slavery is a part of Islam...(those who argue that slavery is abolished are) ignorant, not scholars. They are merely writers. Whoever says such things is an infidel."
     
    Will.Spencer, Dec 2, 2010 IP
  5. Vebtools

    Vebtools Well-Known Member

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    #5
    Before visiting anti Islamic website, i recommended to see what did Islam said about Slavery http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=2017052&p=15375216#post15375216

    WikiIslam uses 'wiki' software, which is free and easy to set up... but it's not associated with Wikipedia. In short, it's an anti-Islam wiki used and run by Islamophobes. Which means they strictly regulate content and disallow anything that doesn't conform to their groupthink. If you want to promote the facts, try editing Wikipedia or a Muslim wiki.

    if u want to rely on wiki then visit here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_slavery#Muhammad.27s_traditions
     
    Vebtools, Dec 2, 2010 IP
  6. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #6
    Let's see... the Quran and Hadiths on one side of the argument and Vebtools on the other... which side should I believe... hmm.... that's not a really difficult decision.

    And since you admitted in another thread that you have never visited the Wikislam site, you really should apologize for your previous uninformed statements regarding the site.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2010
    Will.Spencer, Dec 2, 2010 IP
  7. babak44

    babak44 Active Member

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    #7
    anyway Quran doesn't condemn slavery and in some verses endorse it too!

    Chapter 16: AN-NAHL (THE BEE) verse 75

    hadith isn't only source in Islam. we had some reliable Islamic history book like "Tarikh al-Rusul wa al-Muluk" and "Al-Kāmil fī al-tārīkh" that even mentioned the name and story of prophet Mohammad slaves.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Prophets_and_Kings
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_ibn_al-Athir
     
    babak44, Dec 2, 2010 IP
  8. IsraeI

    IsraeI Peon

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    #8
    @babak:

    Don't you think people who give loans on interest are enslaving others?

    The reality is that many people in the West take out loans for everything, education, health care, the car and even their house, but as soon as they take out these loans they are enslaved by their creditors. If they don't work hard for many years of their life they get punished with more interest or e.g. their house gets repossessed. So this is a form of slavery.

    As for slavery in Islaam, you can read about it here: http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/94840/slavery
     
    IsraeI, Dec 2, 2010 IP
  9. Vebtools

    Vebtools Well-Known Member

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    #9
    Thats why i said visit Islamic web (or better purchase a Quran) not anti religion websites if you really feel that thats a difficult thing to understand

    Lolz, if a website is banned it does not mean i can not visit it :p i have option of proxy and google cache :p
     
    Vebtools, Dec 2, 2010 IP
  10. babak44

    babak44 Active Member

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    #10
    we have many form of slavery, even we can enslave ourslves via our beleives and thinking. but we are talking about an special form of Slaery in this thread and it's relation by religion

    I nead a time to read that article to know what that unknow writer wrote about slavery in Islam but I can find many verses in Quran about slavery and also many information on Islamic historic book ralaited to that, which on is more reliable?
    can you tell us your opinion about Religion and slavery?
     
    babak44, Dec 2, 2010 IP
  11. IsraeI

    IsraeI Peon

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    #11
    I think it may be permissible,but it's not like the bad slavery you may think.

    Think of it as employing someone, not like how the Americans enslaved the blacks.

    Click on the link I gave you, it contains alot of information about the rulings associated with slavery, and how other people in society treat slaves vs the Muslims.
     
    IsraeI, Dec 3, 2010 IP
  12. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #12
    It must be comforting to know that you can go out to a remote road, stop a car, murder all the males in the car, kidnap all the females, taken them back to your house as slaves, rape them at your leisure, and still be a good Muslim.
     
    Will.Spencer, Dec 3, 2010 IP
  13. babak44

    babak44 Active Member

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    #13
    I bag you to read verses of Quran related to slavery, if you need help I'm at your service.
    if it's hard to find them, I mentioned two of them already, read them and think how much your statements is true. one of them is in above (Chapter 16: AN-NAHL (THE BEE) verse 75) and another is
    if you still in doubt, can read reliable historic book about Islam wrote by Muslims centuries ago.
    if you still firm in your opinion as in Islam slavery is better than what American done to blacks then you shall consider thinking slavery somewhat or in somehow is good.
    I should read that link you mentioned but suggest you to think which on is principle, Quran and Islam history that wrote centuries ago or an unknown writer?
     
    babak44, Dec 3, 2010 IP
  14. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #14
    Here's a Hadith passage, Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3383, which shows Muhammad approving of raping slaves and saying that coitus interruptus is unnecessary:
    Jabir (Allah be pleased with him) reported that a man came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: I have a slave-girl who is our servant and she carries water for us and I have intercourse with her, but I do not want her to conceive. He said: Practise 'azl, if you so like, but what is decreed for her will come to her. The person stayed back (for some time) and then came and said: The girl has become pregnant, whereupon he said: I told you what was decreed for her would come to her.​
     
    Will.Spencer, Dec 3, 2010 IP
  15. IsraeI

    IsraeI Peon

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    #15
    Again refer to the link I gave you, so you may understand what this "slavery"is and the rulings associated with it.

    It is better, slaves have rights in Islaam. You should read how the Americans treated the black slaves, then come back and discuss slavery.

    He's not an unknown writer, check his alexa ranking, its 11k. You are free to disagree with anything you like, but discussing these affairs with Webmasters, I don't think you will benefit much, it's like going to a mechanic to ask about issues pertaining to your health.


    --
     
    IsraeI, Dec 3, 2010 IP
  16. babak44

    babak44 Active Member

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    #16
    [
    what American done was according to their religion I guess
    if you like I can show you what were behavior of Muslims toward their slaves. our history is full of Muslims invader toward Iran for collect slaves whereas we were Muslim too, but this thread is about religion and slavery not people and slavery.
    try to remove inhibitions.
    you think slaves in Islam have some rights, please show me according to Quran? do you believe in Quran or that guy with alexa ranking 11k?
    we haven't good slavery or bad slavery I think. Slavery is slavery, what you think, it is good or bad?

    I can't continue a vain discussion so if my post isn't in favor of you need not to answer me.
     
    babak44, Dec 3, 2010 IP
  17. IsraeI

    IsraeI Peon

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    #17

    1 –Giving them food.

    It was narrated that Abu Dharr (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “They are your brothers whom Allaah has put under your authority, so if Allaah has put a person’s brother under his authority, let him feed him from what he eats and clothe him from what he wears, and let him not overburden him with work, and if he does overburden him with work, then let him help him.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (6050).

    2 – Dignity

    It was narrated that Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: I heard Abu’l-Qaasim (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “Whoever accuses his slave when he is innocent of what he says will be flogged on the Day of Resurrection, unless he is as he said.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (6858).

    Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) manumitted a slave of his, then he picked up a stick or something from the ground and said: There is no more reward in it than the equivalent of this, but I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: “Whoever slaps his slave or beats him, his expiation is to manumit him.” Narrated by Muslim (1657).


    3 – Treating them fairly & being kind to them

    It was narrated that ‘Uthmaan ibn ‘Affaan tweaked the ear of a slave of his when he did something wrong, then he said to him after that: Come and tweak my ear in retaliation. The slave refused but he insisted, so he started to tweak it slightly, and he said to him: Do it strongly, for I cannot bear the punishment on the Day of Resurrection. The slave said: Like that, O my master? The Day that you fear I fear also.

    When ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn ‘Awf (may Allaah be pleased with him) walked among his slaves, no one could tell him apart from them, because he did not walk ahead of them, and he did not wear anything different from what they wore.

    One day ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab passed by and saw some slaves standing and not eating with their master. He got angry and said to their master: What is wrong with people who are selfish towards their servants? Then he called the servants and they ate with them.

    A man entered upon Salmaan (may Allaah be pleased with him) and found him making dough – and he was a governor. He said to him: O Abu ‘Abd-Allaah, what is this? He said: We have sent our servant on an errand and we do not want to give him two jobs at once.

    "Gustave le Bon says in Hadaarat al-‘Arab (Arab Civilization) (p. 459-460): What I sincerely believe is that slavery among the Muslims is better than slavery among any other people, and that the situation of slaves in the east is better than that of servants in Europe, and that slaves in the east are part of the family. Slaves who wanted to be free could attain freedom by expressing their wish. But despite that, they did not resort to exercising this right."

    Source: http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/94840/slavery

    Now I don't know how one turns someone else into a slave, that is something you need to ask a scholar instead of conversing about these topics on forums inhabited with ignoramuses. But one thing I do know is that Islaam encourages the freeing of slaves.

    --

    How can you compare this to how other civilizations treat slaves?
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2010
    IsraeI, Dec 3, 2010 IP
  18. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #18
    It's hilarious that Muhammad supported kidnapping women, murdering their entire families, keeping them as sex slaves and raping them any time it was convenient -- and idiots like SolarProducts try to make this seem like sweetness and love.

    Sorry SP, you're not selling anyone on the joys of being a slave.

    If you think slavery is so awesome, why don't you volunteer as a slave yourself? Or is BDSM you own personal fetish?

    [​IMG]
     
    Will.Spencer, Dec 3, 2010 IP
  19. mdvasanth86

    mdvasanth86 Notable Member

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    #19
    That was a self suicide.
     
    mdvasanth86, Dec 3, 2010 IP
  20. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #20
    Is that like self smart?
    [video=youtube;Pj3SIXtLaAY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj3SIXtLaAY[/video]
     
    Obamanation, Dec 3, 2010 IP