Client Not Paying Up

Discussion in 'Legal Issues' started by Raypatidar, Nov 10, 2010.

  1. #1
    I have a Small Business, and give my customers Net 30 to pay their invoice. I have a customer who is now 30 days late on paying his invoice. I have sent several email reminders and also have personally called, but can never get hold of the customer. The invoice total is $150.00. This is my first time dealing with a customer who is not paying his invoice.

    What other actions can I take?
    Should I take legal actions?
    Suggestions?
     
    Raypatidar, Nov 10, 2010 IP
  2. UnSkeen

    UnSkeen Active Member

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    #2
    Get a lawyer and see what legal actions you can take.
     
    UnSkeen, Nov 11, 2010 IP
  3. dscurlock

    dscurlock Prominent Member

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    #3
    No one in life can actually force this person to pay you...They sued simpson for millions in a civil
    case, how much do you think the family actually got? and he vowed not to give them a dime.
    I doubt anyone is going to civil court over $150, even so, even if you got the win in court, it
    still just that, they are not going to force him to pay, they are just confirming he owes
    you, and you won the suit...such small claims goes to collections anyway...

    first off get rid of your net 30 days...or at least reduce how much they can buy
    on credit for 30 days...for $150, you are not the type of company that should
    fall into that category of net 30 days...net 30 days are typically for multi
    million dollar compaines (WAC) ...$150 is nothing, there was no reason for him
    to even get a net 30 type deal for such a small amount of money. If a person
    can not pay $150 when he bought it, then chances are he will not be able to afford it later.
     
    dscurlock, Nov 11, 2010 IP
  4. Raypatidar

    Raypatidar Peon

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    #4
    Thanks for the advice guys.
     
    Raypatidar, Nov 11, 2010 IP
  5. MarcL

    MarcL Notable Member

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    #5
    Is $150 to much for small claims court? Thats cheap to do and could get your money..
     
    MarcL, Nov 20, 2010 IP
  6. WSWD

    WSWD Well-Known Member

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    #6
    Take him to small claims court. $150 is just the kinds of cases they see day in and day out.
     
    WSWD, Nov 21, 2010 IP
  7. seolove

    seolove Active Member

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    #7
    Drop his website in Rankings.. post negative reviews threat him
     
    seolove, Nov 23, 2010 IP
  8. mnicklas14

    mnicklas14 Greenhorn

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    #8
    Well this might help in the future :

    I run a small web/graphic design company as well and if I'm waiting on payment or such, I do not give them any administrative access to the cpanel/ftp/etc. I retain those logins(I give them sub-administrative) until the payment is received. I have heard many times in the past people do this, they login and transfer all the files to another site and you never see the money. So next time maybe think about doing this. I agree with dscurlock, buying on credit for such a small amount isn't a good idea--atleast make him pay 1/2 up front so you know he is legitimate.
     
    mnicklas14, Nov 23, 2010 IP
  9. averyz

    averyz Well-Known Member

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    #9
    I my experience more then 50% of people will not pay up if you give then the goods first. In today's society people think they can just get stuff on credit not pay it and all is normal.

    I only upload stuff After getting paid and I only start work after getting a deposit.

    once I uploaded just the index page of a site just so a client could look at it, They locked me out of the hosting and though they could just keep the site with out paying the balance. After 2 days they realized only the front page worked and everything else was 404. lol So they came back and paid the balance.
     
    averyz, Nov 23, 2010 IP
  10. rehash

    rehash Well-Known Member

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    #10
    Are you having a contact with him? Did he give you any reason for the delay?
     
    rehash, Nov 23, 2010 IP
  11. WSWD

    WSWD Well-Known Member

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    #11
    Good ideas all around. When I used to be in the web design side of things, I always encoded everything with IonCube. When the client paid in full, they got the normal code. You'll give the non-paying folk quite the shock. ;)
     
    WSWD, Nov 23, 2010 IP
  12. superrichguy

    superrichguy Well-Known Member

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    #12
    I wonder if you can put a ding on his credit for it as well? I think there is a way, sorry I dont have the info but I would do lawyer and credit.
    Is it something you can take away? Do you have access?

    Oh and not a biggie but on your website in the contact area you spelt Corporate wrong..
     
    superrichguy, Nov 23, 2010 IP
  13. jakemoore

    jakemoore Peon

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    #13
    Okay as a former lawyer...do not hire a lawyer. That will cost more than the $150.

    And small claims court is probably not a good idea either. Here's what happens. You fill out the paperwork and get a court date. The sheriff tries to serve the defendant. You wait around for a half day to find out they did not get served. You get a new court date and have to track down someone to serve the guy. You wait around another half day and maybe you get a judgment...if he got served. Many times it takes several court appearances before they get legally served the lawsuit and nothing can happen until then.

    Then if you win YOU have to collect. The court doesn't do it. You have to track down assets and figure out how to use the court's process to get them. MOST of these wins are never even collected.

    Not to be a downer, but my advice (not legal advice) is to cut your losses and move on to other productive things in your life. If he's not returning calls, you're throwing good time and money after bad.
     
    jakemoore, Nov 23, 2010 IP
  14. Discover.y.ou

    Discover.y.ou Peon

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    #14
    i think guys suggested enough for this case but i will tell everyone.

    always use upfront/escrow if you have any doubt,don't have blind faith in anyone.
     
    Discover.y.ou, Nov 23, 2010 IP
  15. RonBrown

    RonBrown Well-Known Member

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    #15
    In most jurisdictions, small claims procedures are designed to be quick, relatively simple, and in most cases won't require a solicitor. It is worth pursuing, but as jakemore says, don't spend your life worrying about it. Fill out the paperwork then forget about it until the case comes to court. As long as you provide the court with the correct address they will send the papers out. If the defendant doesn't reply then you will win by default. If they subsequently claim they didn't receive the papers then the case may be set aside and re-scheduled but that depends on what their excuse is. This isn't a criminal action where the onus of proof is very strict. It's a civil cases where serving papers by post is perfectly acceptable in most cases, and judgements are based on the balance of probabilities.

    Once you win, they will have this registered against them. Some companies or individuals don't care, but others are very protective of their credit rating as most people and businesses require some form of credit and most companies who provide credit always do a credit search. If they don't follow court instructions you can ask the court bailiffs to enforce the order. This is much more serious than sending a debt collector as court appointed offices tend to have more powers to sieze goods, and the costs of all this are added to the original debtors costs - you don't need to be involved except to set it in motion.

    It's not worth a lot of your time or worry, but it doesn't need to take up much of your time and it sends a message out to others not to mess with you. I once worked for a company who were ruthless about collecting debts and they would pursue even small amounts through court if necessary. While I didn't always agree with their methods they were very effective at keeping a positive cash-flow and never lost a case where they could show service was provided.

    It's entirely up to you. If you can write-off what you're owed then it might be worth doing but if it's going to bother you, pursue it but don't spend a lot of time on it.
     
    RonBrown, Nov 24, 2010 IP
  16. Raypatidar

    Raypatidar Peon

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    #16
    Hey guys,

    Thanks for all the wonderful advise. I probably will have to write this off. It sounds like a hassle (time & money) to recover a small amount. Lessons of running a small business.
     
    Raypatidar, Dec 2, 2010 IP
  17. CPAPubMichael

    CPAPubMichael Peon

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    #17
    Instead of writing it off, you should send him a FINAL warning. If they do not take any notice. Seek FREE legal advice, yes i know what you are saying but there is company's what give free legal advice.

    This i am sure is a future lesson, ALWAYS get your clients to sign a contract prior to working with you. Try and make it clear in the contract that they MUST make full payment within a certain time. Then state that they will be liable for the damages of legal situations like this. I know i am probably not much help to you.
     
    CPAPubMichael, Dec 4, 2010 IP
  18. pacelegal

    pacelegal Peon

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    #18
    Spot on.

    I don't know what kind of small claims jurisdiction you have wherever you live but you still have to execute on the debt.

    If you really want to find out whether the person has assets there is a process you can use. I don't know whether it is available where you are but we call it a 'Summons for Oral Examination'. It basically makes the person front up to court and swear on oath as to what they own, earn etc. In practice, that seems to work as a first line strategy better than getting judgement in small claims and then finding the Sheriff can't levy distress on their assets. I don't know about in the States but in Oz the Sheriff can't take a lot these days.

    Don't hire a lawyer. The debt will be consumed many times over by legal fees, unless you have community legal centres which can assist you with free legal assistance where you live. The other thing to consider is your consumer affairs bureau. I need to find out what these things are called in US lingo!

    As for the website development process I agree retaining admin access is a good idea, but now consumers are getting more savvy and I think they should negotiate a Website Development Agreement. SOME (and I said SOME meaning not you or most) website developers are pretty unscrupulous and I've seen many people who are pretty naive being ripped off. Misunderstandings always occur and as you probably know some consumers don't know what they want. When it comes to their websites it is a very personal thing. It would be almost as bad as being a hairdresser. :)

    My list for consumers to consider in getting a website built. After pondering these things they will probably never get around to doing it.

    1. ownership over what is developed by the Web Developer and/or any Contractor/s engaged in the project development, including clauses dealing with ownership, assignment and licensing of intellectual property
    2. clear and comprehensive design and performance specifications
    3. clear, unambiguous development criteria including features agreed upon (eg platform selection, browser optimisation, desired level of security, use of tracking tools, software and technological measures eg dropdown and order devices
    4. defined milestones, accompanied by a milestone delivery schedule, shadow site acceptance, delivery and launch of the site, with remedies for failure to adhere to same
    5. clearly and objectively defined measurable acceptance testing criteria
    6. agreed pricing structure, whether based on retainer or hourly rate, with provision for deferred payments or progress payments, and any additional specified services, eg registering domain names, hosting, SEO, website analytics, link maintenance
    7. the parties’ respective liabilities for delays
    8. clauses providing for agreed upon variations or modifications to scope of project
    9. quality assurance standards and tolerance measures in respect of software bugs, imperfections, and interoperability issues
    10. a clause providing for source code to be placed in escrow in the event that the Developer refuses to supply access to it
    11. an Intellectual Property indemnity from the Developer for legal action taken by a third party whose intellectual property rights have been infringed. A website developer may equally request a similar indemnity from customers providing IP to be incorporated into a website.
    12 hosting standards, where relevant, eg accessibility, server response times, bandwidth capacity and operation, content control, site backup, site downloads, administrative and technical contact points
    13.clauses to provide for non-disclosure of confidential information divulged by the customer to the developer for the purpose of the project
    14. post-termination duties, including maintenance services, if any, to be supplied, such as periodic updates, checking of hyperlinks, provision of support services, agreed procedures for transitioning to a new provider to minimise business interruption
    15.provision of periodic copies of websites in development to minimise data loss occasioned by an urgent forced transition to another developer
    16. limitation of liabilities to the extent permitted by law for software quality and performance including monetary risks, data losses, viruses and system security breaches
     
    pacelegal, Dec 5, 2010 IP
  19. pacelegal

    pacelegal Peon

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    #19
    sorry. I over cut and pasted from my site...merging into hosting.
    By the way my advice is not legal advice.
     
    pacelegal, Dec 5, 2010 IP
  20. Raypatidar

    Raypatidar Peon

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    #20
    Hi Folks,

    Guess what, the guy finally paid. I left him a threatening voicemail that I was going to seek legal action and on the verge of hiring a collection agency. He called back and started giving me excuses regarding not paying on time. I waited 2 days, and sure enough the check came in. Thank God he paid. I learned a good lesson for the future.

    I just want to thank all you guys for your advice and suggestions. You guys have a Merry Christmas and Prosperous New Year

    Ray
     
    Raypatidar, Dec 5, 2010 IP