United States Heading towards a Depression?

C'mon Helvetti, don't tear up your communist manifesto on me. Who is to say that only highschool education is a right and not College education? The very same people marching on the lincoln memorial for "free" health care are saying higher education is a right, so apparently the "free" health care crowd is divided on this issue.

I have no idea how the "free" health care is in India, though I know India is a major, for profit, medical tourism destination. Pretty much every Central American country has "Free" health care for their citizens, though I can tell you those filthy disease infested butcher shops are most definitely not where the medical tourists go. Instead, the private for profit hospitals are making big dollars siphoning off paying clients from surrounding countries, while the butcher shops are the sole option for the impoverished populations of those countries. I doubt it is any different in India.

I'm not sure if I understand your analogy, but I do know one thing. Rich people live longer and educated people have more wealth, ergo, providing free university education saves lives. How much is a life worth? I'm glad you brought up the "right" to k-12 education. That quality public education is exactly why my kids are in private schools.

LoL. You use that term "overpaid" a lot. You used it when we were debating the effect of h1b workers on the US IT industry. Let me say this about the "overpaid". If US IT workers and doctors are overpaid, our bankers, attorneys and politicians are gluttonous. What do you recommend we do about those "overpaid" individuals? After all, being overpaid is something to be remedied, right?

When you consider my doctor in Costa Rica is rolling in cash while charging only 25% of what his American counterpart charges, one does have to wonder where the other 75% of that money goes to. Here is a clue. If he doesn't do his job right, I have very little recourse from a medical malpractice standpoint. The government cant tell him he didn't do a good enough job so he has to pay me a several million dollar settlement(of which the attorneys will take more than half). Personally, whether the doctor is here or in Central America, I'd rather have him not screw up than have a several million dollar settlement, so I choose my doctors carefully. Its pro-active rather than reactive.

Since we are talking about medical malpractice, consider this. Once the doctors work for the state, Medical malpractice will take on one of two forms. Either A) taxpayers will pick up the bill to pay attorneys to defend these doctors(The C Students) in court and then pay the subsequent settlements, or B) patients will lose rights to recourse when treated by free health care to lower taxpayer costs. The A student doctors will remain private and cater to the rich.

This is partially true. Universities in poorer countries do crank out some high quality doctors. What is also true is that the massive amounts of capital in the US medical field drives innovation at our schools. In my opinion, there is no question that a graduate from a top rated US Medical school is coming out of school with better training on newer techniques. Personally, even though I go abroad for health care, I look for doctors trained in decent US med school. I consider the large number of foreign trained doctors working in US hospitals another reason to avoid them. Don't consider it xenophobia, we have a lot of quacks who manage to get out of lower end US Med schools as well, equally worth avoiding IMO.

 

So what all is a right? Graduation? Post-graduation? Doctorate? What if a person wants to do all that again in another discipline? Education is unlimited, the "right" has to stop somewhere.

It isn't. But I can't tell you how much I wish it were. The entire business is unregulated, no medical malpractices laws and insurance companies do whatever they want. If they find extra salts in someone urine getting an insurance at a realistic premium is out of question. I am self-employed and never got insurance myself because I know if ever I need to make a major claim the insurance company will find some clause written in font size 0.25 in the 50 page agreement to deny my claim, so why pay them a premium at all? Better take something out of my monthly income and manage my own fund. I wish we had quality socialized healthcare and that these irresponsible companies were brought to book. I'm happy thats its happening in America.

Right to healthcare is a part of right to life and right to education is a totally different right, which I'm sure is constitutionally limited.

Either you take the initiative yourself like this bill or Things take care of themselves on their own.

Overpaid IT worker = Successful Lobbying by companies for opening borders to skilled immigrants.
Overpaid doctors = People going abroad for treatment (like you)
Overpaid politician = Err..well.. if you guys really think so then you should raise this issue and force future candidates to address it (and follow up if elected) in their manifesto.

and so on..

Looks like the least bad option to me. Better than someone (even if its a small minority) not being able to afford it at all. Those concerned such as yourself may still knock at the private hospitals door.

 

The problem Helvetii is that there comes a point where these "rights' start infringing on the "rights" of others. When that happens, well - it just ain't right!

Why is the secretary a she? Because "she" in America is not necessarily meant to be gender specific. It is in fact gender neutral depending on the context in which it is used. I've yet to hear anyone describe the Titanic as "HE". Generally it's "she".

 

Here in Singapore we have "overpaid professionals" and the same "over priced equipment" and "drug companies" in the U.S. -- but we still pay 1/3rd as much as in the U.S. The only difference is government interference in the free market.

It's called freedom man. I'm for it, you're against it. You, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Nicolae CeauÅŸescu, Fidel Castro, and Hugo Chavez are all part of the same dying worldview.

Controlling people makes them slaves.

"Majority of doctors in US are Indians" -- What in the fuck are you smoking?

According to the American Association of Physicians of Indian Origin, there are close to 35,000 Indian American doctors. In 2007, there were approximately 794,893 physicians in the US.

But hey, in socialist math, I guess "35,000" is the majority of "794,894." What-ever.

Of course, if the U.S. starts enslaving doctors, the best and the brightest will simply move overseas -- leaving Americans to die (and deservedly so!)

 

It is the results that make a good professional. On the whole, the Medical Industry kìlls over 200 a day. How many do they save per day ? I suppose you could create a ratio and the overall chances you will survive a visit to a Medical "professional" will appear. Results do come from "practicing" ( I still can not believe they call their work this. ) and experience, but the results are what a patient wants to see. They want to get better, not get put on a drug for the rest of their life.

 

Those people indeed in all enterprises and leave everyone else to live their wholesome lives.

Retention of profits to individuals should become prohibitive above 10 million.

Instead of one Meg Whitman (California billionaire, executive?) when properly regulated by gov't there would be 100, 10-millionaire's.

 

So true! We need to do away with luxury items and properties that cost more than 10 million as well! Its just excessive. I don't care if you make your 10th million by the second week in February... just STOP WORKING!!! Sweet!!!

 

And ten million people with crippled minds following behind like ducklets... thinking that is all there is to life...

 

That's an awesome system to drive the best and the brightest out of the workforce, thereby freezing all human progress and bringing us back to "living in the garden."

 

I find it hard to buy that there is no government regulation in Singapore. Let me do a search.

I guess the prices are low specifically because of government intervention rather than the lack of it. Which is exactly what I'm supporting. You should make yourself aware of the ground reality rather than just assume whatever makes you happy.

Firstly, Thanks for grouping me with such accomplished people. Secondly, don't group yourself with pro-freedom people since you have pretty fucked up idea of what freedom is. You are an embarrassment.

Currently Drug companies have to conduct extensive testing of drugs to get FDA approved which includes trials on humans and animals, simulations on supercomputers among other things. These add a lot to the cost of R&D (still nothing compared to their profits). You say its a bad thing and evil regulation which restricts freedom. You say that they should be removed and drugs companies should be able to sell whatever they want (your idea of "freedom"). What happens if people die? Or if they develop disorders? As Obamanation said people would rather get good healthcare than a million dollars in settlement later. You seem to have no idea what you are talking about. I guess "freedom" also includes the "right" to price the drugs as high as the companies want (since they have monopoly due to patents) regardless of whether the masses can afford it or not and people lives should be subject to "market forces". Jesus Christ, I thought at your age someone would be smarter than that. Let me see how many of your allforcapitalism friends back you up on these ridiculous ideas. Anyone?

I remember reading that somewhere and it is quoted numerous times on the internet even on some credible sites. I'm guessing that the 35000 number is for doctors of Indian American doctors which means that they were born in US and are citizens and doesn't include immigrants who are not citizens.

http://www.articlez7.com/corruption-in-india/

EDIT: Just noticed the 38% number includes PhD's, so it makes sense.

 

Interesting quote. Private care system with compulsory health savings accounts. Perhaps I have my history a bit fowled here, but aren't private savings accounts that the government cant tap as its own slush fund what the Democrats commonly refer to as the "Privatization of Social Security"? Weren't health savings account specifically omitted from ObamaCare? Oh yeah, right on both counts. If you were familiar with the legislation that just got passed, you'd know the system your quote describes is nothing like what the Democrats are trying to create, even though they specifically state they regulate the supply and price of private health care. I, for one, am in favor of reform of our health care system. In his reform efforts, Obama broke the first rule of medicine. Do no harm.

I believe that Will was addressing your overall anti-capitalist attitude rather than abolishing the FDA. You have to admit when you start selling more regulation and government control as "freedom", you might be better off spelling it "freedumb". Reasonable government regulation is a necessity. Heavy government regulation is a cure for excellence, achievement, and yes, freedom. You, my friend, are unquestionably a fan of heavy government regulation, socialism, caps on salaries, wealth redistribution, and stealing from those who have because you feel others are entitled to it. I wouldn't go so far as to call you Stalin like Will did, but those types of societies are exactly what that mentality breeds. Capitalism has created more freedom worldwide than all the socialists and communists put together... holding hands and singing cum-bay-ya... naked.

Weren't you the one who just made the passionate argument on behalf of the FDA? Oh, you were implying the FDA pays for all that research and all those tests. Is that what you were thinking? Who do you think is going to develop all those "miracle" drugs when you remove profit from the equation? You can complain about US healthcare all you want, but one thing we certainly do not lack for is innovation. It would seem we have the market cornered on it.

Ahh right. 38% of doctors, a good portion of which have a doctorate in Computer Science(which also explains Microsoft, IBM, Intel, and Xerox). The H1B program. When you consider that most of the Indians here were brought here by globalists in an effort to drive down wages in a high paying field, I suppose your statistic makes sense. After all, in America there are practically no Indians working in agriculture or manufacturing to bring down the median wage for the ethnicity. Explain to me again why an average Caucasian(or any other ethnicity) American should be in favor of this program once again? Oh right... its so all those poor Americans can buy Microsoft stock and make a fortune by being "competitive" in the world market place..... right?

 

You're ineducable. You managed to confuse yourself worse by searching. That's truly an amazing feat!

I went to a private hospital here in Singapore. Yes, Singapore does have a government insurance program and public hospitals, both of which are completely irrelevant. They touch nothing that involves me. The contracts between myself and the medical providers with which I deal are completely voluntary free-market agreements.

I say that I should be able to buy want I want. Freedom FTW!

You, on the other hand, should be free to follow orders and do exactly what you are told, when you are told, and how you are told. Your dream world is a prison and I wish you all the best in your life as a submissive.

Your fantasy Stalinesque system will prevent death? k-nifty! Tell us more immortal leader!

You are "guessing" an awful lot, and it's making your ignorance even more obvious than your idiocy.

Almost everyone with a clue has left India, due to the results of it's socialist government policies. This is starting to happen to the United States for the same reasons.

 

Inter-day at noon, Dow - +102: Spencer runs from America while others work for a wholesome society.

Maybe by holding their breaths for the next 3 weeks the Depression the pubs are hopping for will show up.....or the public will figure out their true dysfunctional rhetoric and vote realism over greed.

 

What a tool you are Breeze.

 

The people who believe Breeze Wood and practice living off the tax system without working are those who are looking for a free ride from the fed. They are definitely in the greedy crowd. Who is more greedy, those who want to get free money, or those who are willing to do day of honest work for a day of pay ?


Why did Breez Wood never answered Corwin or Will Spencer ?

 

Breeze has been smoking "the garden" again.

He and "Herr Vetti" are dreaming up the perfect planned society where all free thought is replaced with diktats issued from a Supreme Mother.

 

Meanwhile, "Gold Hits Record Near $1,375 as Fed Signal Sinks Dollar".

 

But is gold really rising, or is the falling dollar just making it look like gold is rising?

 

Like it matters. I mean, when the dollar collapses, will people really start trading gold bars for goods? Personally I think food, shelter and some of the most basic needs of human life would be priceless when compared to some soft, shiny heavy metal.

 

And that's where the beer fridge really pays off...