Who is the scammer? post your vote, plz

@RonBrown you dont need to repeat same things you have been saying, I was agreed above, to resolve the solution, but you are acting same like xtazi, which shows, that you might be in touch with him on IM, i dont need to clearify about myself anymore here .. I dont have any interest here anymore. I was agreed to resolve when some other people said above like momi. And i dont care whatever you say. Why shall i face, even he is not accepting his project ... so if you think that he is right, and i should give him files with source code without domain locking, I am ready to do that, But he is not accepting this deal as well, So you are talking so useless, and non-sense. You are simply fighting, and not looking forward for any solution.

 

latest message from Adnan

Lol go ahead. Give it your best shot man. Also if you don't up doing well in this one then please let me know. I have more than 100 small new ideas. I just can't start them up coz of not enough problem. As we all know, you were so much fascinated by my website idea that you imposed domain locking and encryption. and that is why you started acting like a retard man and demanded more money from me for actual open source code of the files.

Yes go on.. speak some more, we are all coming to know about your intentions slowly and im sure at the we will all see you are not so honest with your dirty intentions.

ps: Yes you are ready to resolve and you are ready to give me all the files and open source but its too late now because i moved to another freelancer a week ago to get my project done. I hope you didn't think that my life will stop when you made me wait for 4 months and after that the project got canceled. I surely moved on to a new freelancers to get my project finished. There is plenty of freelancers out there who would do the job properly and give me open source files as well without getting obsessed about a project.

 

@xtazi35, I knew it that you will post here, and thats why i said this on chat, and there is nothing special there. and ofcourse, there are plenty of workers world wide, you are free to hire any one, Atleast i will never work for you, You abused my honesty, and i hope you will get a good return. I worried only about my rating that you hurt, My intentions have never been negative, And still i have no bad intention, But you cant understand, to understand that, you need a sense, which you dont have..

also you know why did i wrote that message on chat? Because when you came to me for this project, you said this is not a common business, now you made it common yourself.. I have no mean from you now. you have done whatever you could do against me.

I dont care! I believe Honesty is the best policy, And i follow it. I am not like you.

so by calling me scammer, i wont be scammer ... but yes, you cheated me badly! so you are the cheater person.

I have already shared all the case here truely, didn't lied anywhere. so why shall i hide my intentions ? if i had dirty intentions, i would have recovered the lose easily ... But now. I never intended to cheat or scam any one .. But yes if i sell or run similar business, thats my right, I am the creator, and cheated by you .. i dont need to repeat explanation ..

Thanks for every thing you did for me to destroy my reputation, But i hope you will be failed! when people will work with me, they will know what i am! ..

 

Honestly, both of you should stop this madness and move on with what you have planed to - we all make mistakes, though only some of us learn from them. Take care of yourselves in the future and you'll be just fine

 

@ActiveFrost: thats what i was trying to do, i tried to resolve this issue, but he took more steps against me, like he gave me negative iTrader as well .. Now he is neither taking project nor removing rating and this thread, but keep blaming on me .. you think yourself, if i was a scammer, why would i waste time here? scammer doesn't need to care about ratings, or any such threads. their aim is to scam people. I never intended to cheat any one, i am honest programmer. I am not worrying about my current clients, they know about me very well, but i am worrying about future clients who might be uncomfortable when they see my ratings .. in my all experience i never cheated, nor scammed anyone ..

 

Yes I do. When you decided to answer my last post telling me I was posting nonsense, and then told me what I "meant" to say when my post was quite clear about what I was saying, your drivel deserved an answer.

Maybe you could clarify who was posting nonsense now. I'm not the one who is having to backtrack on my original position.

Does your paranoia know no bounds? Your statement is verging on the ridiculous. I know neither of you, I've never been in touch with xtazi in any manner except by way of these posts.

Heck, I don't even know why I'm dignifying that part of your post with an answer.

Yet you continue to respond

There you go again. You just can't leave out the insults, can you?

You're the one who is fighting. I posted my original opinion and you decided to fight it and insult me. You continue to fight it, but my opinion is the same as the majority of people who have replied. You are the one who has finally agreed that we were all correct after all.

I'll give you your dues, it took courage to admit you were wrong and do the right thing. If Xtazi will not accept the project then that is a petulent and I fail to see the point of his original post if he didn't want the project anyway. At the end of the day neither of you come out in a good light but at least you did the right thing in the end.

 

I dont know why are you so aggressive to me, Even i have said every thing from top to bottom here, How can you call me scammer? I dont need to say again that i am not a scammer, That is obvious that i am neither a cheater nor a scammer .. This guy gave me huge lose, honestly i couldn't even afford that lose, And i was to give him all the codes, if i talked about domain locking, that i also explained about it, what and why. When i agreed to give him code without domain locking, he refused me ..

So if he doesn't want to take project, why did he insulted me here so much ? why did he gave me a negative rating? and all. Was he in so rush to move the project to other guy? he didn't even inform me that what he is doing here against me, I got to know it from some one else.

is it not my honesty that i informed him what will be given ? If i wouldn't tell him, he couldnt even understand that domain is lock. I told him every thing clearly, But he decided to destroy my online image as he said on chat, and thats why he is doing this all ...

Also very kindly, dont think that i am doing this because i think you all are correct, of course not, I am doing it just because of my business reputation, He did this very wrong way.

He has been doing propaganda against me here, and he hurt my honesty, played with my reputation. He shown himself as irresponsible, No one has any right to insult other like he is doing, Did i steal his money ? Did i keep his money for free ? Didn't i afford the lose he gave me ? I could say many things, But i am not like him ..

If you are neutral person, they why dont you think yourself, Did i do all the mistakes? and ofcourse, i dont think that owner has a right to make illegal copies of project and distribute illegally, If you think that he should be able to do any thing with its code, That did i say that i am giving him encrypted code? i have been saying, that he is able to do any thing, but he just cant make illegal copies of it ..

When client asks about these rights to his/her provider, provider has to think if he can allow these rights within project cost, or not, Mostly providers increase cost when they come to know that the client will make copies and use this project commercially, There whats wrong i did? I said whats the common thing, He has been saying that i am giving him locked code, But if he is able to do any thing except making illegal copies, how can he say that the code is locked?

I am not here to scam or cheat people, My business reputation is much important then projects . He tried to make me down here. I cant bear it really. I am honest guy, and this is very serious issue to me ..

as he said, he didn't want to resell. then why he has a problem if every thing is open, just domain is locked. Well i dont want to recall any thing again, But if he keep insulting me, You tell me honestly how can i bear that ?

 

This is the first time I've ever hear that a Freelancer owns the work which was ordered by a client!

Are you mad AdnanAhsan?

This guy offered to pay you $3000 and that's over 2 years of salary in Pakistan! You also too much longer time than you agreed in the beginning! (45-60 days) but it took you 4 months! In all the projects that have been done for me, I have never seen ANYONE ask me to pay more for the resale rights! The content belongs to the client! Why do you want it anyway? The only thing that comes to my mind is that you want to sell it yourself, if no then why not give him all the right.

It's just like this, you order a bread at the baker and then he tells you that you can eat it but not give/sell it to anyone else... WTF...

Anyway I think you guys should just do this:

xtazi35: Ask him for the whole project and send the further $1700 you ow him.

AdnanAhsan: Finish everything and give it to the client! Receive the $1700! Everyone is happy!

Hope it all gets solved!

 

Look, here's where the difference of opinion lies. If you can't see it then there's nothing I can do about it.s.....

You've kind of answered that yourself. The following tiny extract sums it up. "...that owner...". My view is that if someone pays you for your time to create something, the result of that time (the work product) belongs to him. All of it, not some, not a part, ALL of it.

Coming from that premise, you have no rights to tell him what he can do with that. It belongs to him, he's the owner of that work, and he can do whatever he wants - change it, sell it, use it, give it away, licence it to other people. It's none of your business what he does with it. He paid you to create it, you give it to him.

You see him asserting his rights as "making illegal copies" or "ditribut[ing] [it] illegally". You then attempt to restrict is his free use by encrypting it and ask him for more money for the code that he was paying you for in the first instance. That's where everyone sees you as being wrong.

By encrypting the product, or by asking for more money for the source code, THAT is the behaviour of a scammer. You don't agree, but that's why you have got everyone's back up. It doesn't matter what else has happened - he pays you late, cancels the project, posts about this publically - the core of the matter is that by encryting the product and asking for more money (a significant amount of money) for the source does not show you in good light.

No matter how much you attempt to defend yourself, that core process is at the heart of it and no-one is interested in anything else you have to say. We see it you extoring him for work he has paid for.

What utter tosh! Are you telling me it would have taken longer, or been more onerous on you, if this had happened? That is nonsense.

What you are doing is getting people to pay you for your time, then claiming that the work you created during that time belongs to you. That's like paying someone to build a house, then them claiming that the house belongs to them because they built it, and them telling the owner what they can or cannot do with the house they paid for. Where's the logic in that?

It doesn't matter how often you say it, your behaviour says different. You might not believe you are a scammer, and I do believe that your not a "bad" person or meaning to be one, but your behaviour is saying otherwise. Your view on the software is at odds with everyone else's opinion, and until you see where you went wrong you will never change your opinion and continue to see yourself as a victim.

But why not it they are the owner? If they are the owner, then by the same logic, you aren't. And if you aren't the owner then what rights do you have to tell them what they can or cannot do with it? They didn't pay you for a "license" they paid you to create some work, and you must turn over that work to them...all of it.

I've said it many times, but I'll say it again....because it belongs to him. He paid for it, what rights do you have to restrict it? That is completely, utterly, and shamelessly the work of a scammer.

Why would it be illegal of him to make copies of something he owns outright and which has been created specifically for him? That's where you've got it completely wrong. What you should be asking yourself is that since he paid for the work what rights do YOU have to restrict his use of it, encrypt it, or limit his freedom to do what he wants with it. It's his code, not yours. You wrote it in return for his money, you forfeited any rights to this work when you agreed to do it for a sum of money.

It is wrong. I worked as a contract software developer for many years and never once did I think that the work I did belonged to me. I would base my price on the product brief which would be an estimate of how many hours it would take me to complete the project. That was the basis of my price, not what the client intended to do with the work once I handed it over. If I created some software myself and sold it as a licensed product that's a completely different matter, but work that the client paid for was handed over to them when they paid - all of it.

Maybe not, but your unwillingness to recognise what you are doing as wrong, and your continued wrong statements about "illegal copies", "illegal distribution", "whats wrong with domain locking?" etc is doing you no favours.

If you're not bothered by what other people are saying then don't reply (I could say the same thing to myself), but until you stop the whole "illegal" thing no-one is going to give you the time of day.

You think I'm being aggressive? Wrong!

 

@RonBrown I agree with you completely!

 

Ok, i accept this mistake, may be i dont know about it, because i never faced this situation in my all experience, my clients have been asking for these things, i never had to face such issues, I agreed, i was wrong! And i want to give him all code, but now, he continued insulting me, and he is not taking project, but ok as i saw your opinion, I can say, its a mistake. But truely, i am not a scammer or cheater, it was a misunderstanding because i never got a chance to face such issue before .. but really, i am not dishonest! .. This is a mistake! I will take care of these things in future.

I am very depressed about the bad rating he gave me, he didn't show any patience as well, he never informed me what he is doing here against me. He shouldn't atleast give me bad rating, because i could resolve this issue. there was no need to give me bad rating.

well thanks for every one

 

Adnan, Kudos to you. It takes a strong person to admit they were wrong publically. That will do you more favours and good than any defence you put up. Lets hope this is the end of it.

As Ardit says...

Is the best resolution and both of you can leave with some dignity.

 

you can see i have been trying to resolve this issue since yesterday, but he had refused me, I am still willing to give him all the things and end this issue, but he doesnt intend to do so.

 

What??? Then why did he started this thread?? If he do not take this project then you better complete it and then sell it's licenses to other people here on DP or on other websites to cover the costs.....!

 

Why do people start to take things seriously only when everything is falling apart ?

You should have thought about it earlier.

 

@momi: thats what i am saying, and if he opened this thread, he could at least inform me that what is he doing here against me, and thats my right to know whats going on here behind me.
I asked him last night, he said, i will get my answers from his post, He hired another programmer, he is fine to spent more time, but he doesnt interested in my project now, i spent 4 days, waste resources and money, did hardwork, and i was giving him open code with domain locking that time, but then when here you guyz told me that this is wrong, i agreed to give me all, but he left me negative iTrader which hurt me too much, really i value my client's rating too much. I am still willing to solve this issue, i will give him all code, and he will pay me my rest 1700$, but he disagreed ...

@ActiveFrost: bro you see, i was giving all the codes, i was just locking domain, he could discuss same way here, just like he opened a thread as "who is scammer" and kept calling me scammer here, he could do some thing like "Do i have a right to get open source code without any locking" or "Please post vote, how can we resolve this issue" .. But he started propaganda against me instead . Thats so hurting me.

I hope you can understand this, he is not responding now, he doesn't need the project from me, but he tried his best to destroy my image here .

This is my business and the only source of income, i dont do any other job, think yourself, if i start scamming people, How can i run my business? I have been working with honesty, I believe that honesty is the best policy, My clients are happy with me because they know about me and my skills. their trust is built with my hardwork ... In fact, i have been working for other freelancers here on DP .. I got excellent feedback from my clients, few months back, i got a proper recommendation letter from my usa police officer client, i won their trust by doing hardwork and not by scamming or cheating them. I hope the picture is clear to every one now.

 

@adnan

This is not a game. You said the project is canceled since you can't give me any other option without encrypted source and now after almost 2 weeks gone when your reputation is at stake you act good and telling me now you are ready to give me the project.

SORRY.

I already appointed someone now to finish the project. I paid him advance just as i paid you when i wanted you to do this project. You pulled out of this project since you couldn't give me the source code. That was your decision. Even when i asked you on 5th October you were not ready to do any deal with me.

IT IS TOO LATE NOW.

Don't blame it on me now. I told you I am getting a new programmer before 5th October. We had a talk on it on gtalk and that time also you were not ready to do any deal.

Now when everybody is saying you are wrong suddenly you are now ready to make a deal ??? How strange!

SORRY i have appointed a new programmer now. YOU ARE OUT OF TIME TO MAKE A DEAL WITH ME.

I have no intention of destroying your reputation with this thread. STOP twisting things. You twisted enough and gave enough B.S. explanations about resell rights and all but it has gone to no where. Now when i moved on (after 2 weeks) you are blaming me that i am not responding. This thread was to let people know about our situation.

I asked you lot of times to make a deal and resolve this even before i opened this thread. And when i opened this thread I got replies that i should move on and file chargeback with CC and give you a negative feedback.

Anyways, if you are in this stage then i would say you are simple here because of your own stubbornness. You had all your time to say me yes when i was still concerned about the website. And that time you showed no interest. And when no one is supporting you in here then you are open to make a deal.

Too late. I am sorry. Life is about making most when you have opportunity to make it. And you failed there when i was asking repeatedly to resolve.

I moved on. So should you. I will not change my negative itrader in any case because for you or your actions i have to give the job to some one else and spend again for this project.

And if you think i moved on too fast to another freelancer then you are wrong. Because you told me in the begining of the project that it will take 45-60 days. But 4 months to finish a project is too much. And I already told you before a month that if you can't do it on the 4th month then i would move on to another programmer and cancel the project.

I have given you too much time to finish it up. I have asked you too many times to resolve as well. What am i supposed to do if you played the best role of being a dumb!

Sorry again.

PS: since you admitted that you were wrong the way you were trying to handle the project my objective of this thread is fulfilled. Project was officially cancelled long before the thread was opened.

 

Check the time and date when you started this thread, that is Oct 1st 2010 2:52 pm, but you never told me about it, you never told me what are you doing here, And also for your kind information, i dont care some people are not in my favor, i accepted my mistake, because of these people here, and i will take care of these things in future projects, i asked some company about this issue, they said, that people who handle small projects, they are not much aware about this rule, when projects are large, companies / providers have to take care of these things, That was enough to give you ability to change any thing you want, Well now when i am willing to resolve it, You are showing your attitude, You believe me, I dont care whatever you do against me, But i dont want to make my new clients hesitant to work with me, And i hope they will happily work with me .. You dont need your project, thats fine, you gave me rating and wont take it back, That is fine! ... Now dont expect any thing from me.

Guyz you have seen, I was doing my best to end this issue, But you see how he is showing his attitude, I am a programmer, not a begger, He told me on chat, that he will destroy my online image, if any of you have any doubt i can show that chat, thats why he tried to do.

Now its enough, i dont care anymore, he did what he could do against me.

But i hope, people will understand it now, and if they give post not in my favor, trust me, that doesn't matter now, because i did my best to resolve this issue, Its the biggest nightmare to work with him, I will never work for him again for sure!!! ...

I have no responsibility of his project now, i wont like him to come back to me if his current programmer fails to do his work!!!!
He abused my honesty, But i am a strong person, and i hope, I will be more careful while working with other clients like him .. But i hope, its was my first and last nightmare ...


People who suggested you about chargeback and negative iTrader, were not aware of the real case, and they suggested you, before i shared all the details here.

Thanks for every one else who posted here, no matter what posted.

 

i dont know in what sense you wrote like this, not sure you are telling me or the buyer .. I never cheated any one, i am the victim, not criminal .. wasted time, money and efforts .. i got no benefit, but lost too much, 1700$ isn't a small amount .. 1300$ he blamed me, but he got the working website which was 97% done .. so he didn't lost them, but purchased a site.

I never intended to cheat any one, any one can try to make other down, but there is no proof that i cheated him. but i have proof that he cheated me. I gave him website for money not for free, and the 1300$ he spent, also used in development of this project. I didn't keep any money for free, but yes he gave me a lose of 1700$, which is not a small lose .. I dont want to discuss it any more, this is just a propaganda against me ... I dont value it now. Please if you are not sure what are you going to say, do not post. I am an honest person. i didn't CHEAT!

We could solve this issue before, if he inform me what he was going to do here against me .. I am a responsible person, i dont compromise on my business repo. But he didn't show any patience, he came here started a thread against me, given me negative iTrader.

See he started this thread on 1st oct, he asked me if i can integrate his website with application for 200$, that time he didn't inform me about this thread too. but was expecting me to do more work for him, if he started this thread and decided to destroy my image here, how could he expect more work from me ?

This guy tried his best to make me down here, but see i was trying to end this issue, he refused, he said this is not a game, But he played it very well. Lose of 1700$ isn't a game to me. In my whole experience, i never cheated any one. This is the only guy who tried to prove me as cheater, even he cheated me badly, not only cheated, but insulted me too much.

 

Just against some of your Points,

Thread Title is the Sole Discretion of The Thread Starter to Decide. He was calm enough , to not Say AdnanAhshah is a Cheat With No Reliability... Thank Him For that, At First.

And If You Could Give him All things Open Source now, Why Didnt you do it earlier?

See. he spent $1300 on you and Now He rejects your thing, See, He even can spare a $1300 to be away from you! Its Not about the Itrader or the thread which Hurts as you say, But It was his Hard earned Money!

No Freelancers Owns a Right to their Work, Or can Encode it with Domain Locking or any of them, if its not Said earlier when the deal and price is fixed!

I would sure stand with the Buyer.

Now, As a Man With Pride, He would possibly Never take the work from you Again...

So, The Resolution is To kindly Close it, And Leave ! And You have no rights to ask for $1700 Man, Not atleast a $100. You failed on time, You failed on reliability, You failed on Owner Rights, and still demand money?

Nope!

I would, as all others, Will stand next to him!

~ExP~