United States Heading towards a Depression?

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by decoyjames, Dec 27, 2007.

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  1. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #4961
    You are not warm, actually very cold. Read chapter 5, 7 and 8 and then you can explain for Crowin why he makes a fool of himself by talking about computers and automation as something that invalidates Marx.
     
    gworld, Jul 29, 2010 IP
  2. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #4962
    Form 1040ez. Its the equivalent of your payroll solution. Obviously I was talking about a lot more than payroll. I notice you didn't comment on my lemonade stand link. According to you, those kids parents should have known they just needed to roll down to city hall and pull a business permit, right? Problem solved.

    Lets cut through the BS and get right to the heart of it. Do you hire union? If not, would you?
     
    Obamanation, Jul 29, 2010 IP
  3. Corwin

    Corwin Well-Known Member

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    #4963
    Instead of making a fool of yourself by giving us a homework assignment, why don't you use your stunning intellect and prove to us that you know what you are talking about? Explain chapters 5, 7, and 8 to us and explain how computers and automation invalidates Marx. Explain it to us. Or is that too much effort for you? Or do you admit that you are incapable of making a compelling argument?

    Go ahead, gworld - you're the Marxist. Explain it to us.
     
    Corwin, Jul 30, 2010 IP
  4. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #4964
    Do you really want to go there?

    It's kinda hard to engage him in a debate when all he does is resorts to childish behavior, name calling and baby talk.

    I've had more intellectual conversations with my 7 year old.
     
    Mia, Jul 30, 2010 IP
  5. Breeze Wood

    Breeze Wood Peon

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    #4965
    Just why the great intellects above are voted out of representation in gov't must be a shocker for some....themselves anyway.
     
    Breeze Wood, Jul 30, 2010 IP
  6. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #4966
    It always make me sad to think of a poor 7 year old child in a trailer park environment being forced to spend time with some drunken "genius" who is waiting for his next welfare check.
     
    gworld, Jul 30, 2010 IP
  7. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #4967
    Need I say more?
     
    Mia, Jul 30, 2010 IP
  8. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #4968
    Earlpearl, while I wait for your answer on Union Labor, I thought I'd share some interesting stats from CNN's review of a recent Pew Poll. Apparently 1 in 10 workers in the border states (CA,NV,AZ,TX) are now illegal immigrants. When speaking about the construction industry in particular, that number averages 17% or one in six. When talking about drywall or Masonry work, the number jumps to 45%. The average wage appears to be around $36K a year or 17$/hr, all of it paid under the table unless they use a forged social security card and license. Since all the cash is paid under the table and no proof of citizenship is required to collect welfare, food aid, and medi-cal, nearly 100% of the illegals participate in these hand outs.

    All of the above numbers have nearly doubled on a percentage basis in the last 10 years. It was funny to watch the CNN pundit admit that flooding the market with cheap illegal labor has helped to create wage stagnation across the board. I know you claim not to be a pro-union guy, but I find it difficult to see how anyone who is pro-American labor can be in favor of fostering and continuing this type of behavior.
     
    Obamanation, Jul 30, 2010 IP
  9. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #4969
    Definitely, talk with the social services so they can take the poor child out of that environment and give him a chance to become a healthy adult. ;):D
     
    gworld, Jul 30, 2010 IP
  10. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #4970
    I know as majority of Americans you are not used to reading and research and think all the world problems should be solved by TV talk shows and hopefully in less than 10 minutes and while there is no interesting movies on other TV channels but some times you actually need to read in order to learn. ;)

    The reason that your comment about computers was stupid is that while in Marx time there was no computers, there were other industrial machinery that helped with automation and speeding up the production. You must first understand about how extra value and wealth is produced and the difference with distribution of wealth which produces no extra value.
    Let´s assume that a computer has a value of 1000 dollars and it is used in production of 1000 example of product A before it has to be replaced. Therefore each sample of product A has used 1 dollar value of the computer but no extra wealth is produced. You can read about this in Capital when Marx explains it much better.
    Computers can reduce the number of hours required to produce a product (like other type of machinery) and therefore an industrializes nation or factory produces the same product with less hours than other nations or factories that don´t have the same instruments. The ones that produce the product with less hours than mean time required will have extra profit while other ones lose. This is also explained in Capital.
     
    gworld, Jul 30, 2010 IP
  11. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #4971
    Thats cuz we is unedjumacated.

    Hello captain oversimplification. Computers didn't just reduce the amount of time it takes to do a task. They created whole new market places. Without the PC, no Microsoft. Without the ARM processor no smart phones, smart phone applications. Without digital broadband, no network based applications (video conferencing, online video games, etc, etc, etc). Marx was an observant guy with a few well meaning ideas on social justice. He was also wrong.

    "The hand-mill gives you society with the feudal lord; the steam-mill society with the industrial capitalist" Karl Marx


    P.S. Have you got my room ready? I'm moving in.
     
    Obamanation, Jul 31, 2010 IP
  12. Corwin

    Corwin Well-Known Member

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    #4972
    @gworld, I know that, like the majority of Americans, you are not used to reading and research, and so you think that all the world's problems should be solved by TV talk shows in less than 10 minutes. Some times you actually need to read in order to learn. Maybe then you will learn to use correct grammar so that you don't look like a six-year old using his daddy's computer.

    No. Absolutely not. That above statement demonstrates a complete and total ignorance of economics, deprecation, and the value of capital equipment. As a statement of Marx, it is complete nonsense. You made it up.

    Some times you actually need to read in order to learn. It's childishly obvious that you either never read Capital, or that you don't understand it. That's why you are incapable of making a coherent argument here. Like a fat lady in a milkshake store, you are grasping at straws.

    Your insults and shouts of "stupid" impress no one. It makes you look desperate and we only laugh at you. Look, try to make a coherent argument, please. You know that the people here are receptive. May I gently suggest that you learn to write better, and with proper grammar. Try to read Capital and actually refer to it because, in all honesty, your post makes absolutely no sense. No, don't try to make the claim that we are too [choose an insult] here to understand you because you and I both know that is a child's argument. If I insulted you, do you think that would suddenly change your position? Well, then, what makes you think that calling us "stupid" is going to change my position?

    Read Capital, then make a coherent argument. I promise you that you will be taken seriously. if you do.
     
    Corwin, Aug 1, 2010 IP
  13. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #4973
    what a BS, what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

    Marx most important contribution is to economic and not well meaning ideas to social justice but I am not surprised that you don´t know that.
     
    gworld, Aug 1, 2010 IP
  14. Corwin

    Corwin Well-Known Member

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    #4974
    @goworld, what O is telling you is that, yes, technical innovation has reduced the cost of manufacturing and also completely eliminated jobs from manufacturing. Those workers are now unemployed.

    But that same technology that has killed off worker's jobs, has also resulted in new jobs in whole new market places such as manufacturing PCs, smart phones, smart phone applications, netowrk based applications such as video conferencing, video games, etc etc etc.
    As far as the price of tea in China, China is the one manufacturing these devices. I am not surprised that you don't know that.

    As the expert on Marx, gworld, I would like to politely ask you to explain this in terms of Marx, by DIRECTLY citing Marx from Capital. Go ahead, I promise we'll take you seriously, as long as you refrain from the childish insults. O.K.?
     
    Corwin, Aug 1, 2010 IP
  15. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #4975
    I don't mean to pick at your grammar, but when you use phrases like, "What a BS", it seems pretty clear English is not your first language. Since you are still in a state of Quebecois denial while being a Canadian, would you mind sharing with us what your first language is?

    I am absolutely certain that when it comes to Karl Marx, you are far more knowledgeable than I. Why don't you share with me his most important contribution to economics. If you can, it would be great if you could cite some examples where his theories worked out.
     
    Obamanation, Aug 1, 2010 IP
  16. gworld

    gworld Prominent Member

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    #4976
    Video games and computers have nothing to do with how surplus-value is produced. If you are really interested to understand this process which is the heart of capitalism, you can read the section 2 of chapter 7. After reading it then think about it and you will understand that computers are just another production tool and video games don´t prove Marx wrong as mindlessnation claims.
     
    gworld, Aug 1, 2010 IP
  17. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #4977
    The fact that the moderation team here still puts up with this nonsense is the reason for its failing and dwindling lack of quality input.
     
    Mia, Aug 2, 2010 IP
  18. Corwin

    Corwin Well-Known Member

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    #4978
    No, YOU explain it to us. How can you demand that we prove you right, when you seem afraid to prove yourself right?

    I could just as easily write, "gworld, after reading Section 2 of chapter 7 of Capital, then think about it and you will understand that I am right". Right? Because at this point, I don't even know what point you are trying to make. Explain it to me. I never mentioned "surplus-value", what is that? "The heart of Capitalism"? Explain to to me.

    So, stop giving us homework assignments. DIRECTLY CITE MARX YOURSELF and make your OWN point or admit to us all that you don't understand Marx.

    This is your opportunity to impress us - GO!
     
    Corwin, Aug 2, 2010 IP
  19. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #4979
    Thank you for making my point again, and providing a link to it. Now that you get it, perhaps its time to be quiet for a while ;)
     
    Mia, Aug 2, 2010 IP
  20. Breeze Wood

    Breeze Wood Peon

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    #4980

    If Republicans are still waiting for their depression, the wait will be a little longer than the present.

    The strength of the DOW is surprising - and for a rally to move above 11000 truly surprising but becoming more plausible each day.
     
    Breeze Wood, Aug 2, 2010 IP
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