Don't just write to get Paid--Write because you LOVE it!

I wasn't trying to say that, you should do something your client doesn't want you to do. If the client's goal is lots more writing, and you know this, then writing more rather than less is better. Of course it should be quality writing, just because he wants 500 words, maybe 490 would be perfect for the article and you should discuss that with your boss. Never did I say you shouldn't listen to what your client wants.

My point is, be flexible, but don't give up because of constraints! It's a valid point and everyone should stand by it.

 

@YMC, exactly, you shouldn't be so caught up with word counts, and should do whatever is appropriate while working with your client to be assured that he gets what he wants (which is ultimately TRAFFIC). And sure SEO does help, but ultimately, it's the quality of the content that will matter.

 

Uh, actually, you were.

He is not "fighitng" anyone. However, YOU are the only one he had someting negative to say about. Because, in part, you simpy do not know what you are talkling about on just about anything, period.

Uh, he knows that, and that is not what this thread is about.

Really? In other news, water is wet. And, he knows that already.

And he clearly noted that there are more things a "writer" has to keep in mind beside having a love for it.

Sorry, folks, not trying to start anything here, but, um, "wizard," if you are going to comment, leave out the typical BS and useless filler you use to try to make yourself look so knowledgeable.



Jen had a great article on her site written by another writer on this subject.

I wish I could find the damn thing.

Still lookin'....

Every now and then I wil turn in two samples for his approval, one his way, and the other my way, which is a longer version. I then let him decide.

Looooooove this thread.

Jesus, I just sounded like a nerd!

I need another beer.

 

Oh yes you are.

Please re-read the thread there are at least two others

There's another thread around here somewhere, offering rewrites for beer money.

You're welcome

 

*chuckles at the $5 per article noob* Okay, if you say so, kid.




My mail didn't get through, but there are a couple here who knows jen, jhmattern, more personally anyway. Ask her if she can find it. It's a good article that can be added here.

 

I'm not fighting anyone here, I was simply replying to someone who started all of this by calling me a fool for unprovoked reason. If you do not agree with that, then you are on his side and are inventing information from thin air; but all you have to do is go back to page 1 or 2, and see that I didn't start fighting anyone, so please, stop accusing me.

 

I'm not going to reply to your whole post, because you're not really arguing with me, you're arguing semantics, which I will not stoop to that level (I don't want to waste either of our valuable time). So I will reply to the above quoted text.

At no point did I oversimplify anything you've said. I've only stated a general piece of advice that all writers can use, and that is to overachieve rather than underachieve unless the over-achievement will be in detriment to your client's requirements. I drove my point home on the fact that producing quality work is better than producing adequate work, it's simply common sense--do you still disagree?

My hostile mentality? Assuming I have a hostile mentality is hostile in and of itself. It seems you're the one that is hostile, because my post in response to you, was not even trying to undermine your point or cause argument, except to add a different view. I didn't say you needed my approval either, you're not making much sense here.

Your analogy is in error because that is not what I was saying. I'm asking a fisherman to do the best they can even if they have a crappy fishing pole. I'm asking a fisherman to catch fish because they love to fish, not because they need 5 fish for the client, but bringing an extra 2 fish would be appreciated. There's nothing wrong with that. If the client has a requirement, you should do it, and stop complaining about it.

If you are disagreeing with me, then your argument is that 'no, the fisherman should bring whatever amount of fish he wants, regardless of what the client wants, the client can't require me to capture a set amount of fish'--that is exactly what your argument is here; while idealistic, it probably won't happen in real life except those few rare jobs that people like you have.

 

Tarkan, you're a complicated soul. I will not restate my points or thoughts and neither will I make further attempts to understand or engage you on this matter anymore. Except for this one single thing.

Just do this. Take a few minutes, have a cup of coffee and read a paper. Then come back and re-read both of your post as dispassionately as you can and try to think of the ideas, tone, impression and emotion it conveyed. If necessary, ask someone you know to read it and tell you what they think.

Your first post was condescending Tarkan, judgmental and inappropriately rude to a total stranger. Your second post was not much better, except you have gone to personal attacks.

Now, two things can happen after this.
One, you apologize and we both end it here as mature adults.
Two, you refuse to acknowledge this, continue with this line of behavior and you will lose whatever goodwill I have left for you.

Thanks.

 

I apologize? Hah, you're the one who started the disrespect by calling me hostile for no apparent reason. Please grow up and re-read your own posts before you recommend someone to re-read their posts; I've been posting here longer than you, so I don't get into fights or provoke them. You should be the one apologizing.

Even in my second post where I quoted your blaring red text, I didn't even insult you once or say anything condescending or disrespectful. Apparently you are imagining tones and attitudes--is it because my avatar is red? Is that what is giving you impression of aggressiveness? In that case, you're the one typing in bold red text.

 

"I've been posting here longer than you, so I don't get into fights or provoke them" .lol. Yes, that is very obvious.

So be it then.

 

There seem to be lots of arguments between various people lately round here on non-topic stuff.

Is the copywriting forum turning into a watered down P&R forum?

 

What kind of fish are surrounding you?

 

And so much of it is interestingly coming from new members. Find it curious so many are coming here within such a small time attacking the old members and defending the new. Gotta love the chutzpa of so many new members inviting the old ones to leave when they disagree with what's been said.

Too bad really. Forums are supposed to be a place to exchange ideas. Without seeing the people you are talking to race, religion, age and socio-economic status don't usually interfere with the conversation - except, strangely enough among the very people who are supposed to be expert communicators.

 

YMC I have 40 years experience, I was doing business long before this forum started.

When do you get the mentality that time on this forum means more knowledgeable.

Any forum to grow needs new blood. Instead of discouraging new members, you should be helping them. Many of them will become the leaders of the future.

It is a total unfounded proof, that time of being a member to the particular forum over time, can be equated to any superiority of any form.

I sure hope this is a misunderstanding you have, and not an implanted problem. You have no more rights that someone that joined yesterday.

In fact, if you that is so anxious to post comments of their posts instead of creating your own. There is no seniority here. Apply to become a moderator, but that a different king of skill. I am beginning to suspect by the writing trend that you and snarke, may be one and the same, or closely linked together was lately your word usage is the same. Please tell me how your time on the forum gives you superiority.

 

It has nothing to do with superiority or offline experience. It has to do with establishing oneself as a member of a community. There is some level of dues to pay that has nothing to do with professional experience. Off world life is no different - move into a new neighborhood and start telling everyone that you know more than they do, are richer than they are and can show them a better way to do things and see how well you will be received.

Those green pips by my name exemplify my willingness to welcome and help others here. They were not awarded by a merry band of sycophants like you seem to be attracting and no, they don't make me superior to a new member. They do, however, show that I am a long-standing and contributing member of this community. You appear to not want to be a member of a community but something of a cult-like leader where everyone should bow before your proclaimed superior intellect and skill. Differing opinions are met with personal, off-topic diatribes and attacks.

I don't care if you are Bob Bly incognito, your behavior in this community has been atrocious. On other, more well-moderated forums, you would have been asked to leave a long time ago.

 

I strongly object to that statement. I am one of those that agree with Dyadvisors opinion, but certainly am not a follower, I never was and never will be. In fact the reason I am agreeing with him, is because he has PROVEN his statements to me, and one cannot argue facts, period.

I have nothing against you, in fact I awarded your posts more then once so those bars under your name carry my approval as well, but with this statement you are way off.

 

YMC: You seem to think it does. Those green blips on many people mean dips. Often the amount of posts are factored in.

What have you been eating lately? Your posts used to be pleasant. Now you have this very silly seniority community process as meaning anything. Why am I, a nobody, picking up friendship requests so quickly. Some from long time members. Many that I am helping to better their careers? Oh yes, that is not part of the "community." Where in the Q&A or rules are you getting your facts. Why am I a paying member, yet you are not willing to fully become a true community member? I also gave you "credit points toward your blips"

It is your choice to end this foolishness or continue it. Either way, I will continue to help others. You are free to do your thing. But please no not lay this time-share BS as being a factor.

 

Actually Kraven, I was referring to the wave of newbies arriving in the forum.

I do think that you have given too much credit to someone else and not taken enough for yourself. No doubt you have seen results from the suggestions he has given you. Never forget that you built a thriving business from scratch without his help. He did the same thing we do for our clients, pointed out some areas for improvement. They appear to have worked - hurray for you both!

I have nothing against our new prophet personally, just his methods. Seen them before. Been where you are; could write the book.

 

Guess only time will tell if you're another false prophet or truly mean well. Whatever, I'm done. Perhaps we should all ask Shaun to rename this forum for you since you seem to have assumed ownership. Have at it. Perry seems to enjoy sparring with you but I'm tired of trying to have an intelligent conversation and exchange of ideas with a close-minded know it all.

 

YMC: When is this magic book of knowledge coming out? Will it be free?

Do not compare what Kraven actually did, with what in your mind he did. That is sheer speculation. In fact when I help someone like Kraven, I also learn from that person. I do not pretend to have a halo.

Do you really think you know more about article writing than I do? As I am constantly learning, I certainly do not think I am a know it all. But In this one area, I do know alot.

There are very, very many areas on this forum where there are brilliant people shining and spreading goodwill and help.
I am not a master of all trades by any means. There I can only learn, and not contribute.

I see you have taken on many ventures like directories. Do you know more than me that too? You certainly do on crafts, no doubt about it. You have already wrongfully accused me of selling items. I asked for the proof and I did not see you provide it, or retract.

However I can put article marketing, sales, advising, and packaging together with a very high class client. Outside of that, my knowledge comes from learning from others.

You are starting to sound as close minded as _____. Why are you against people learning. And your insults about my abilities are all totally unfounded. Is this the bad time of the month? Why do you not knock it off, or put up your proof.