A Negative Impact On Muslims And Atheists Alike

In the Politics and Religion section of DP there are really only two sides, the Muslims and those who oppose Islam. Because of this we typically hate each other.

However this evening I thought I'd try to put aside our differences to briefly touch on something that I feel is effecting both the anti Islam crowd and the Muslims negatively, although both in different ways.

In my time here I've grown to respect many of the Muslims who post in this section; granted I still hate their religion, and I do disagree with a lot of things they believe in - but at the same time those who are able to carry on an intelligent conversation I do enjoy conversing with.

Something that always gives me hope is when a Muslim specifically says "I hate wife beating" or "It is wrong to marry/have sex with children" - and the fact is, many Muslims here I've noticed do feel this way on both counts.

This thread is not to get into a fight about what the Qu'ran says about wife beating, or what is meant by it - there are other threads about that.

I would like to address a question frequently asked by Muslims here - in particular those who are new to DP. "Why do you hate Muslims?"

I would like to draw your attention to this post;

Many of you, Muslims, Atheists, Jews, Christians, etc. will read this and know that it is wrong.

However when you have a Muslim here, arguing that hitting a woman is OK if the male feels it will change things in a favorable way. He goes on to explain that women do not have the right to avoid becoming pregnant, and that beating a woman if it stops divorce is OK in Islam.

The reason for this post is mostly to encourage Muslims who disagree with the practice, and who believe a Muslim should not be a wife beater, to speak out in that kind of thread.

When wife beating and abuse comes up here, Muslims frequently feel upset and try to tell us that this is not OK, etc.

If you are a Muslim who believes that wife beating is fundamentally wrong, then you need to prevent creeps like this from speaking for you.

If a Muslim came out and said "I speak for Muslims! It is OK to murder babies!" (Just an example) and no Muslims stood up to say "Hold up - you don't speak for us! This is wrong!" then it is easy for people to assume they agree with his sentiments.

Animals like this are why people hate Islam - because they believe is OK to do things that most of us, Muslim and Atheist alike, know is wrong.

I guess I just wanted to encourage Muslims who don't believe in this crap (and I know many of you don't) to speak up and not let this kind of coward misrepresent you.

Anyway; I just felt like sharing that. I'd really like to see Muslims take a more proactive role in debating with those who misrepresent them - rather than just ignore it then ask why people hate Islam, or think every Muslim is a wife beater.

/end rant.

Alexis.

 

Yosuf Estes explains it best.

[video=youtube;sWFluxnAcwA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWFluxnAcwA&playnext_from=TL&videos=giw9LHFnQ64[/video]

[video=youtube;eYpje0qIvFA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYpje0qIvFA&feature=related[/video]

 

i agree with you , i hate atheism too but we should show respect for others

i hope to change your opinion about that .

 

Are you new here?

 

Moderator, why do you block my threads?
Scared?
Is this my last post in DP?
Should I consider myself permanently banned from DP from now by asking you this question?
You locked all my threads, Im not saying to explain to me in public, just PM me and tell me if it hurts you.

 

Thanks - I'm really happy that you got the message I was trying to convey here.

We both know it will eventually likely end up with people arguing about wife beating and Islam - but if just one or two people get the point I will feel this has been worthwhile.

@trustedfire9 - indeed. There are many times here that showing respect is impossible, but the rest of the time I do try to make an effort, and I know others do too - it just can't always be that way when discussing highly emotional topics.

@wmghori - this thread isn't meant for a discussion on wife beating; as discussed above.

 

http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1851457&page=2#post14469487

There you go alexis.
This is why people hate Islam, and rightfully so. Anybody who doesn't hate Islam (or any other degrading dogma of that kind), is insane.

 

I saw that and responded over there. I wont go nuts about it in this thread, but yeah - I'm disgusted by it too. It was a horrible thing to do and I've PMed you.

 

The trouble is that these beliefs are Islamic dogma. They are the word of Muhammad as written in the Quran. They aren't really up for debate.

Every "Muslim" who says "I disagree with these things" is guilty of attacking Islam. They are in a state of apostasy -- for which the penalties can be severe.

 

Very true. It is the exact reason why thegr4, when you take him through it step by step, is opposed to wife beating. When he arrived at that conclusion, and realized it was in opposition to the Qur'an, he immediately reverted to his previous stance of supporting wife beating. For him, and many like him, Qur'anic teachings > logic and reasoning.

 

I'm well aware of these things; but at the same time I still want to see Muslims who believe it is wrong to start voicing that opinion to creeps like thegr4 - he may be more receptive to hearing he is wrong from others who have no history of hating Islam.

 

Which is why you created this thread. I know. Can you hear the crickets chirping? I can.

The only Muslim who has posted on this thread is WMGHORI, who posted with an American Muslim cleric trying to downplay the Qur'anic requirement to beat your wife by highlighting the idea that women do not have to work in Islam. Hardly a condemnation of wife beating. You couldn't pay me to beat me.

Like I said, this is an extremely tough issue for them. This is not Hadith which these guys will disavow if it means avoiding controversy. This is the Qur'an. To say beating your wife is wrong is to say the Qur'an is wrong. It isn't going to happen. I doubt Nightcrawlers will even speak out on it.

 

Sam something.... who was it.... I can't remember his name; there was a blue avatar here who was married and made it clear he'd never touch his wife, and if he tried she'd probably kill him - lol.

I'd just like to see more of that - we hate them and they hate us - but I just sometimes like to see that little bit of goodness, because it makes me think there's still some hope for some of them.

 

I think the trick is making them live in fear and making sure they know that no is escape possible because there's no civil government which will protect them.

Then they are afraid to even defend themselves. I think that's important to protect sensitive male Muslim egos.

 

Posts which are made with insincerity should just be ignored.

 

You mean like posts from pornographers who promote Sharia law?

 

If you are referring the my OP, it was sincere. All my posts here are - I wouldn't waste my time otherwise.

I made it clear I hate Islam, I hate a lot of people here - and I know that the feeling is mutual; you hate me, you hate Atheism, etc.

A thread encouraging Muslims who are as disgusted by wife beating and the like as the rest of us is a GOOD thing.

Calling them to action on a subject many actually have GOOD opinions on is not insincere - it's setting aside differences for 5 minutes to say to those who do understand hitting women is wrong to stand up and say "You are a Muslim, I am a Muslim, but you do not speak for me. I do not believe in this garbage."

 

Like the one you just made here.

 

Makes me wonder what your day-job is.

No, I don't hate Atheism...I pity those who think Atheism is the only alternative to Islam. That isn't hate.

Islam does not allow for wife-beating, so it doesn't need your "input" to say that wife-beating and spousal abuse is wrong. I know that it is wrong, so does another 1.5 billion others who know what Islam is about. Why an Atheist who does not have any moral guidance or know what or how to justify the "good" can tell us whether this is good or bad? For someone who is blatant about her Islamophobia, you certainly have a lot of cheek starting posts claiming to "sincerity" when it is clear that (from the past record) you are certainly far from it.