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How to convert an Athiest to a Muslim

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by thegr4, Jun 20, 2010.

  1. Will.Spencer

    Will.Spencer NetBuilder

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    #181
    In Western societies, we punish child molesters. In Islam, they are worshiped as prophets. See the minor difference there?

    Also, although Muhammad waited until Aisha was nine to rape her, the historical records shows he molested her from the age of six by rubbing his penis between her tiny thighs. That's some dirtbag y'all have chosen as your spritual leader.

    But wait... there's more... there's always more... in support of "family values", Muhammad also promoted kidnapping married women and raping them.

    Sura 4:24: Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those (slaves) whom your right hands possess. Thus has Allah ordained for you. All others are lawful, provided you seek them (with a dowry) from your property, desiring chastity, not fornication. So with those among them whom you have enjoyed, give them their required due, but if you agree mutually (to give more) after the requirement (has been determined), there is no sin on you. Surely, Allah is Ever All-Knowing, All-Wise.​

    In other words, "You can't have sex with married women, unless they are slaves, with whom you may rape or do whatever you like."

    Full analysis at Marriage is not a requirement for a Muslim man to have sex with a non-Muslim woman. Some excerpts:

    Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3371:
    Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): 0 Abu Sa'id, did you hear Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-'azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born.

    Abu Dawud, vol.2 footnote 1479 p.577-578:
    "After the distribution of the spoils of war a man may have intercourse with the female slave after passing one menstrual period, if she is not pregnant. If she is pregnant one
    should wait till she delivers the child. This is the view held by Malik, al-Shafi’i and Abu Thawr. Abu Hanifah holds that if both the husband and wife are captivated together,
    their marriage tie still continues; they will not be separated. According to the majority of scholars, they will be separated. Al-Awza-i maintains that their marriage tie will
    continue till they remain part of the spoils of war. If a man buys them, he may separate them if he desires, and cohabit with the female slave after one menstrual period."

    Malik's Muwatta, Book 29, Number 29.32.99
    Yahya related to me from Malik from Damra ibn Said al-Mazini from al-Hajjaj ibn Amr ibn Ghaziya that he was sitting with Zayd ibn Thabit when Ibn Fahd came to him. He was from the Yemen. He said, "Abu Said! I have slave-girls. None of the wives in my keep are more pleasing to me than them, and not all of them please me so much that I want a child by them, shall I then practise coitus interruptus?" Zayd ibn Thabit said, "Give an opinion, Hajjaj!" "I said, 'May Allah forgive you! We sit with you in order to learn from you!' He said, 'Give an opinion! 'I said, 'She is your field, if you wish, water it, and if you wish, leave it thirsty. I heard that from Zayd.' Zayd said, 'He has spoken the truth.' "


    Seriously kid, if there was a god, don't you think he would have picked a better prophet than a scumbag like Muhammad?
     
    Will.Spencer, Jun 27, 2010 IP
  2. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

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    #182
    "Husband is not allowed to hit women"

    "it is allowed in specific circumstance."


    Are you stupid? Do you think the rest of us are stupid? How, in one sentence can you say how husband is not allowed to hit a woman, and then in the same goddamn sentence you tell us how it is justified in some circumstances?

    It is sad that you go through these contortions to justify a man beating his wife. Pathetic and you are a disgrace to men everywhere.
     
    browntwn, Jun 27, 2010 IP
  3. thegr4

    thegr4 Well-Known Member

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    #183
    Wife beating is a permission given in Islam as a last and final measure, If a husband believes it can work to resolve the matter. Why do you ignore that ISLAM promotes talk between husband and wife to resolve issues and utilize every possible means to correct the problems. You are just against Islam, you will never understand the true values of family. Wait until you get old and your children will throw you in old house to spend rest of your life. Just because you stink and you cant even go to toilet yourself to pee.
    You cant just pick a specific case of fictitious character and say if that will work or not.
    If I have a wife and we are having problems that are preventing us living with each other and she's never even heard a shouting, then I will not even shout at her. It totally depends on the nature of people.
    How a person expresser a dislike, and how the other person responds to it.

    @will.spencer:
    The only acceptable sexual relation in Islam is with wife or with slave women. You dont have the concept of slave women, let me tell you what a slave women means:
    After war ended in those days, it was a tradition that all the things which the loosers leave behind are now a property of the victorious people. They also used to leave behind women. Those women if Muslims tried to return to there own tribes they would not accept them, as they know that they have become impure now, because it was a tradition in that society. So, it would risk the life of those women to return them to there original tribe. So, what's the solution to this problem.
    One solution is to have those women as slaves, the slave is not which any one can just posses on any ones wish, it was distributed with the consent of the tribe to specific person who can look after the slave. So it was also permissible to have the same relation with a slave women as a man has with his wife, it was allowed and the resulting children were not illegitimate, and there bring up was responsibility of the person who is owner of slave women. That was only with those tribes whom they have no treaty for war detainees.

    There is no concept of slave women in current society, as we have treaty with all nations that war captives can not be detained and they have to be returned. So you can not keep them as slaves. If there is no such treaty only then you can detain war captives. Today, all the nations are responsible for returning the war detainees according to United nations charter.

    We only consider Sahih hadits to be authentic, dont bring daud or any other hadits.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2010
    thegr4, Jun 27, 2010 IP
  4. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #184
    GIVE ME AN EXAMPLE! If you think beating would help ANY situation, give me an EXAMPLE!
     
    Obamanation, Jun 27, 2010 IP
  5. thegr4

    thegr4 Well-Known Member

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    #185
    This is not my subject I don't study people relations.
    If a student does not learn a lesson, teacher punishes, that student.
     
    thegr4, Jun 27, 2010 IP
  6. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #186
    You don't know. Thats what that answer says. "I don't know of any situation where beating would help a relationship". If you can't think of a single example where beating would help a relationship, why would you ever help promote beating as something to be used as a last resort to save a relationship? You've made a passionate argument about family values, dramatically exaggerating stories of babies in dust bins and mothers turned to whores, but now you are a person who claims not to know anything about relationships? Use your head boy. If it seems obvious to you that beating could only hurt a relationship, its because IT IS TRUE. If you can reason that far, then perhaps you can make the extra step to say that beating of your wife(or any woman) is wrong. Sinful. Once you arrive at that point, you'll realize the Qur'an is dead wrong on this topic, as it is on many others. Either way, quit promoting an activity that you don't know the first thing about by your own admission!
     
    Obamanation, Jun 27, 2010 IP
  7. thegr4

    thegr4 Well-Known Member

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    #187
    In my society where I am living in, I cant think of any example. It does not mean there is no example.
    If a woman is ignorant and does not listen to her husband and keeps on going to the wrong path, husband fails to convince her through talking then husband can hit her if he believes that way he can gain her attention.
     
    thegr4, Jun 27, 2010 IP
  8. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #188
    So you can't think of an example where it would help save the relationship, but you still fight for a husbands right to beat his wife. Why did you waste all of our time with the "value of marriage" arguments. You can't provide a single example where it would help. Why do you continue to support the practice while acknowledging it wont help. I can only surmise you think beating a woman makes you somehow more of a man.

    Why don't you go ask your priest. Let him give you an example. If he can't provide you with one, perhaps then you will believe there is no example. If he does provide you with an example, come back here and share it with us. I'd love to hear it.
     
    Obamanation, Jun 27, 2010 IP
  9. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

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    #189
    Ah yes, the wisdom of Islam. Women as slaves and property. It has been through this forum and posts like yours that I have learned about the true nature of Islam and how the hate, and violence, and maltreatment of women is commanded by your God. Thank you for further enlightening me about Islam. You are a service to the community.
     
    browntwn, Jun 27, 2010 IP
  10. thegr4

    thegr4 Well-Known Member

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    #190
    I am talking about my society I am living in. Muslims are all over the world each living with there own cultural values. But you don't value culture, you don't have any culture of your own. I may be wrong, yes you have "You only live once" culture.
    You don't know what a family means, you don't know what your parents mean to you and how to respect them and how to treat them, you might have send them to old house or mental house already.
    Guess what, the same thing will happen to you when you reach there age. And when you do, don't blame your children.
     
    thegr4, Jun 27, 2010 IP
  11. Blue Star Ent.

    Blue Star Ent. Well-Known Member

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    #191
    What ? Being honest ? Please continue being honest and admit that NO Example Exists With You. You do not have experience in this. Admit it.


    Therefore you are here in this forum, not knowing the basics about your religion, yet pushing your religion. Why is that ? Why push something on others that you yourself do not understand or can even fight for ?


    I have a polite request : Stop pushing your religion unless you understand what you are fighting for. That time has not come yet. If you can continue to honestly push it after understanding the history behind it, that is the decision you must live with.
     
    Blue Star Ent., Jun 27, 2010 IP
  12. thegr4

    thegr4 Well-Known Member

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    #192
    Please read my full post, you should know what a slave woman means.
    Its not what you call "call girls" or prostitutes.
     
    thegr4, Jun 27, 2010 IP
  13. browntwn

    browntwn Illustrious Member

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    #193
    I will tell my 99 year old grandmother who lives with my family that you think we should kick her out because we are not Muslims.

    Your ignorance of women, of the West, of freedom and liberty is sad. I truly do feel sorry for you. I think the vitriol you display is a symptom of your desire to prove your worth as an Islamist because you have not found any other source of personal worth.

     
    browntwn, Jun 27, 2010 IP
  14. thegr4

    thegr4 Well-Known Member

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    #194
    I am not a married man. Do you think all Muslim husbands have bad relation with their wife. And it rises up to the extent of beating them, if that is so, then you are wrong.
    Look at the divorce/crime rate of Muslim and non-Muslim countries. Both are inter-related.
     
    thegr4, Jun 27, 2010 IP
  15. BENNY8877

    BENNY8877 Member

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    #195
    Check on Click Bank there may be a product like this.
     
    BENNY8877, Jun 27, 2010 IP
  16. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #196
    Once again you change the topic with ridiculous unfounded allegations against western culture. Let me bring you back to the point. You have NO examples in your culture. You say our culture has loose moral values, yet we have NO examples in OUR culture either where beating can save a relationship. If there are no examples in your culture, and no examples in our culture, doesn't it follow that THERE ARE NO EXAMPLES where beating your wife would help the relationship?
     
    Obamanation, Jun 27, 2010 IP
  17. Blue Star Ent.

    Blue Star Ent. Well-Known Member

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    #197
    You do have common sense dont you ? Use your common sense. You do not have to be married to answer the questions
    you have been given. You do not have to live in a garbage barrel to know it stinks in there.
     
    Blue Star Ent., Jun 27, 2010 IP
  18. thegr4

    thegr4 Well-Known Member

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    #198
    @Obamanation
    @Blue Star
    If wife is ignorant and careless about the importance of this relation and does not listen to her husband and every attempt to make her realize fails in that case husband can beat her.
    It is same as teacher punishing a child who does not learn lessons.
     
    thegr4, Jun 27, 2010 IP
  19. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #199
    And that will help the relationship or hurt it, in your opinion?

    Did your teacher physically beat you? Is that permitted in your culture?
     
    Obamanation, Jun 27, 2010 IP
  20. Blue Star Ent.

    Blue Star Ent. Well-Known Member

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    #200
    You are assuming it is the same. It is not the same. We do not believe you because we have experience. You do not have experience. Please read my first post to you about continuing to remain honest.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2010
    Blue Star Ent., Jun 27, 2010 IP