So the more personal the nature of the relationship, then beating is allowed? By this we can presume the beating of your close relatives is also permissible, or is it only if it is a female relative? Is it OK to beat your mother? How bout your best friend? Do you really think the marriage bond is strengthened after you beat your wife? Do you think she loves you more, or less after wards?
Im not married. Beating is NOT promoted in Islam, Islam encourages talk between the two to resolve the issues, but if a husband BELIEVES it to be a remedy to the problem, only then Islam has given the permission to take this action. In current society obviously beating will increase the tension, so it will not be helpful, not in the society I am living in. So I will prefer to give divorce if talk is not reducing the tension.
SCOREBOARD: For those attempting to follow the play but forgot to set your TiVo... here's the score: -1- O'nation - Asked if it was ok to beat the wife. -2- Thegr4 - Husband is like a boss, OK when she has it coming. -3- O'nation - Asks Thgr4 if HIS boss beats him. -4- Thegr4 - Bosses do not have the right to beat workers .... [Note: This raises the question why answer #2 was used at all. Gr4 DI clarify that it's different because marriage is "more personal"] SUMMARY Wives have almost as many rights as employees. What have we learned in this thread? -- Lesson A) Islam allows beating the wife if it will help avoid divorce. This stands in stark contest to the rest of the planet where beating the wife will generally *cause* a divorce. -- Lesson B) ThGr4 has no experience with women if he doesnt think the his explanation is offensive to the ones that havent been subjected to serious brainwashing. He needs to remain in a Muslim land or he'll either die a virgin. Prob a good idea to stay outta the US. Here if you hit a girl you'll get pulverized by her dad, brother, or in certain states... any guy that sees it. Here wifebeaters go to prison, where ironically enough they often become someone's wife and get beat when they get outta line. Maybe it's the muslim influence in our prison system.
Forgive me if I didn't quite get the meaning of what you just wrote. Are you saying you, individually, would recommend divorce over beating your wife? Didn't you say Islam recommends beating prior to permitting a divorce? Or did I misunderstand you and you believe it is important to give beating a try prior to divorce?
Beating is permissible if talk fails, meaning if that's the intention if husband beats wife and he believes that it can bring some change then husband will not be sinful. It doesn't mean that its necessary, or it has to be done before divorce. In current society, which I am a part of, I am pretty sure it will increase tension, so I will not even think about it.
That's the problem with your society, lesbianism legalised, gay marriage legalised, prostitutes legalised, but when it comes no natural marriage, no, over my dead body. That's why you have so many illegitimate children, I might be talking to bastard people, sorry that may hurt, but there are fare chances that you or your ancestors may be bastard. But that doesn't matter to your society. But when it comes to saving the pure relation of husband and wife, no don't even say OH! to your wife, just take divorce and get separated. What about the children, they don't get attention, they will become thieves, prostitute, drug addict, drunk, nah that's fine. And about the man where will he go to fulfil his desires, to the prostitutes, Well that's OK in your society! And the resulting illegitimate children, well that also OK. Most of them are found in dust bins. So called human rights rule! regardless of the mess it leaves behind. You cant compare man made rules with the rules of Allah.
Interesting that you think my opposition to wife-beating equates to an attack on "natural marriage". I checked. Neither of my kids are bastards, although given he acts a lot like me I suspect my son has been called one on multiple occasions. You have never been married, so trying to convince me that wifebeating is the answer to preserving a relationship when I've pointed out that it's more likely to cause a divorce might be a sign that you are clueless on the topic. Yeah... human rights, schmuman rights... let's hit a girl and be holy. Does Allah have any similar quaint rules? Trying to think of parallels where you could apply this amazing logic. Maybe... Spitting in your neighbors face is allowed provided a man thinks it will salvage their relationship. You may only pour gas on a wildfire if it appears it might be about to spread. If you ever get married you'll figure out that I'm right. Until then, you're giving me directions on how to get to a place I've been and you haven't.
How ignorant and narrow minded you are, I am talking of a society as a whole, I am not talking about individual. Im talking about 4.5 billion people who are non-Muslims. Whats more acceptable: Children without no one to look after and eventually ending up with drug, prostitutes, thieves, drunk. And the divorced man seeking prostitutes for sexual pleasure and giving rise to illegitimate children which are thrown in dust bins and left to die, or if they survive end up with the same fate as that of the children of divorced family. OR trying to prevent this from happening and taking every possible measure to save the family. It hurts when someone reveals the truth! They don't want to wake up.
Only if she has a male relative to go to court for her. I hope you stay unmarried until you learn some civilized manners. In other words "We can't beat defenseless women as we would like until secular government is replaced with an Islamist caliphate". One of my relatives relatives relatives got hooked up with a guy that hit her. Her stepfather and his father got together and explained to him the error of his ways. I know her stepfather... thinking about that gives me the shivers. I guess "natural" to him means "among animals." If you think beating your wife is a good way to prevent divorce, you're probably loopy beyond repair. For serious students of Islam, Wife Beating in Islam is an excellent comprehensive guide to this topic. For everyone else... here's the simple version: [video=youtube;iWGA8i6scYY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWGA8i6scYY[/video]
You've built your argument on the premise that beating the wife is going to save the marriage. Again, just not true. I could use similar logic if I said that robbing liquor stores will save a marriage, and then proceede to go on about the benefits of saving a marriage. It doesn't matter if everything after the premise is true if the premise itself is total horse-shit. Bottom line, you're still drawing maps to a place you haven't been. Might have a future as a corporate consultant, but not as a husband.
And this is the comprehensive Islamic women user's manual for advanced learners. A must for every follower of the prophet (PBUH) [video=youtube;fIlQq4NiSzE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIlQq4NiSzE[/video]
Sometimes Muslims come here and ask "Oh, why do you hate Islam? Islam is good and peaceful!" THIS IS WHY. All these people who come along and think of anti Islam folk as horrible, mean and wrong need to take a step back and see what we see. When a Muslim comes here and says "Wife beating is OK if it stops divorce" or "Wife beating is OK if talking doesn't work" is a pathetic little scum bag who needs his nuts cut off with a piece of broken glass. I have had it up to here with Muslims who come here and want to know why we hate Islam, then post bullshit like this. I'm not even going to get started on the whole thing about homosexuality being legal - FFS - if you aren't in the relationship then STFU - it's perverted to try to dictate what people can do in their own f'ing home. This wife beating conversation is going no where - the asshole thinks it's OK - we say it isn't - according to Islam it is - he's a sheep and will never, ever change his mind. Fucking pussy. Come to my country and try to hit a woman, we'll lynch you. I'm going to bed - Chaos, Rob, Nation, Will - great posts as always. You tend to improve my mood and opinion of males in general. (I don't think badly of men, it's just hard not to sometimes when you read this kind of bullshit - temporarily.) Try to forgive the rant, it's a sensitive issue for me. Bedtime, I think.
What's better, try to prevent divorce, or kill children by throwing them in dustbins! You are disrespecting humanity in the name of human rights. In Islam men women both have equal rights but when it comes to relations, some relations have greater rights because of greater responsibilities, like husband over wife, mother over father etc. These relationships remain the same no matter what age, what century you are living in. But no, now a days, women don't even give birth to children, its too labourous to give birth to a baby and to look after that baby, so they ask there husband to donate sperm to a fertility house, where women are hired for this purpose. They give birth to your children and once they are brought up, they are delivered to your house. Child factory!! Yes, that's right for you, why should wife bear pain and suffering of pregnancy just because her husband wants a child! Wife has the right to deny being pregnant, if you want a baby, go to fertility house. Men women both are equal. Beating in our current society is highly displeasing, and may not work to resolve the issues. The point is that every means is to be availed before taking extreme step of divorce. It not between two people, its the matter of whole family. Every person of that family gets affected from divorce its a hole that cant be filled in the entire lifetime.
You never answered my question. In your opinion, do you think beating your wife could ever help a relationship? If so, how. @Nightcrawlers: As the moderate Muslim from Pakistan, where do you way in on this? Is thegr4 misrepresenting the official position of Islam on this? Does he have it wrong? @Awinsjclarke,PoliteTeen: Is Thegr4 right or wrong on this?
No shit. Whoda thunkit. Actually, they do change. For ex: 100 years ago guys here thought hitting a wife was acceptable. You call the change a movement away from natural marriage... we prefer the term the correct interpretation... "progress". Try living in the current century. It might not stroke your little ego as much as pretend superiority, but there are a few advantages to living in reality. Yeah, that sounds exactly like my town, you have it pegged. It's almost like you're looking over our ignorant lazy western shoulders. But frankly even that is waaay too much work. I mean why cant we just order 'em online? Sure, I've heard there's always "computer sex"... but last time I gave it a shot I dang near got electrocuted before finishing (and I'm pretty sure the lubricant messed up the motherboard for good).
Every possible mean has to be tried before going to an extreme step of Divorce. Which obviously does not include doing anything that can further tense the relationship. Do you understand English.
Of course I understand English. How does your response above answer the question that was asked: In your opinion, do you think beating your wife could ever help a relationship? If so, how.
I am not a married man. But if I marry I will get to know her as closely as I know myself, same with my wife she will know me as closely as I she does herself. I should know what makes her happy and what makes her sad. If she is not that kind of nature that she can accept this, I will not even think about it. If things are not going right, then only way is to talk the way out.