United States Heading towards a Depression?

Korr: I was merely passing one piece of financial information. I have no read on Chinese economic conditions. OTOH; it is one big rapidly growing economy and its actions are focused on dominating. China makes me nervous.

 

A well managed and regulated economy by the central govn't is what is needed for a recovery that is beneficial for all the citizens.


The above has nothing to do with ideology but the nuts and bolts for recovering from the previous Administrations mismanagement and philosophy that was voted out of power. Avoiding the previous ideology of exclusion and favoritism in fact was exactly why this country was founded and is its unique strength when applied.
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China's stockpiling of commodities could potentially create a bubble that could be extremely profitable to a serious student of commodity futures. It's something to think about if you have the spare brain cells.

 

This is funny.

When Obama was doing the bailouts (specifically the auto bailouts), conservatives wanted to see Detroit stop making cars and start producing clean energy technology instead. These sentiments echoed throughout the Republican party. We were going to sell this new technology to the world and it was going to save the US economy.

However now that liberals are using the oil spill as an opportunity to push forward with clean technology production, conservatives are pouncing on it as a bad idea that won't be viable for 15-20 years.

Typical.

This is why I can't take Republicans seriously.

 

I couldn't agree more. Republicans just don't understand that without new government regulations, private enterprise would never figure this stuff out. While Japanese car companies may have managed to produce fuel efficient hybrids based on anticipated market demand without any new regulations whatsoever, American auto businesses are just too stupid to get it. What we need to do is have the government take over these companies and deed the shares over to the Unions. Institute strong new environmental laws and high new taxes on gas. It is EXACTLY what our economy needs!

Furthermore, I don't see this spill as an issue of corruption in government, or the MMS failing to inspect and enforce the laws on the book, oh no. If anything, this crisis is a loud cry for more regulation and government mandated green energy! This is exactly the type of crisis we needed and it should not be allowed to go to waste. Those who claim existing regulations, had they been followed, would have averted this disaster have had their chance. Elections have consequences and we need to do what we think is right. I propose new taxes to get us to 8$/gallon gasoline. Not only will the tax revenues fund additional bailouts to help stimulate our economy, but the investments in green energy will instantly shoot through the roof. Join in and help us fundamentally change this great nation!

 

I never heard this. Conservatives wanted this? ALL conservatives? Or some conservatives?

WHICH conservatives wanted this???

Both Republicans and Democrats are pouncing on it as a bad idea. Fix the leak first.

And, what exactly do you mean by "clean technology"? Do you really mean "clean energy technology"? You mean nuclear power, right?

 

I don't recall, but this argument (for Detroit to enter the clean energy game) was all over the place among conservatives. Probably not long. Maybe one news cycle. I would guess that southern Republicans were the most vocal at the time since that is where the foreign auto plants are.

Nice bait attempt. You want me to say that yes, I mean nuclear power so that you can reply that Dems have traditionally been against it. They have started to change their tune in recent years though.

 

Nonsense! Don't give in to him DDDD! Nuclear is not an alternative, even if it doesn't produce green houses gases and costs a fraction of fossil fuels! It took an eco disaster just like the one going on in the gulf right now to kill off all new Nuclear plants in America. Failing to call that progress would be a horrible mark for progressives. Just because France is the world's number 1 energy exporter because they have embraced nuclear energy, doesn't mean we have to fall into that trap!

If anything, we need to look at TMI and the Nuclear energy business as an example and use this to put the nails in the coffin of the evil Oil producers in the US. Truly a crisis too good to let go to waste!

 

Watching Glen Beck for the first time in ages. Same story. Still going nuts about government spending.

Funny how conservatives never have anything to say about the fact that Republican members of congress pride themselves on funneling as much federal money as possible into their districts.

The fact is, Republican states take a disproportionate amount of federal dollars compared to what they pay in federal taxes.



Conservatives demand that their congressmen spend, spend, spend. The national debt means nothing to Republicans and their voters as long as the money is flowing into their areas.

Yet another reason why I can't take Republicans seriously.

 

Hmmm, if it was "all over the place among conservatives" then why is it you can't post a single cite here? Doesn't it look like you are making something up? Or are you demanding that we take your word for it without any proof whatsoever? Would you grant the same courtesy to others?

Look, I'm not calling you an out-and-out liar, but if it was "all over the place among conservatives", as you suggest, then I would really like to see you post a cite. Especially since I enjoyed living in the Detroit area for seven years.

EXACTLY!!! Thank you for being honest.

France, Germany, etc all have clean electricity because they generate most of their power from clean, safe nuclear power plants.

It's the environmental movement that is responsible for the energy crisis in the USA, right? If we'd been allowed to drill in Anwar, BP wouldn't be drilling seven miles deep.

The environmental movement's hypocrisy is presently washing up on the shores of the Gulf Coast. Why have they been strangely silent on this government's inaction, hmmm???

 

The southern conservative states and their politicians are responsible for allowing the worst environmental disaster the world has ever witnessed. The reason Republicans can not be taken seriously is they accept no accountability for their philosophies that tragically impose their single-mindedness to everyones expense.....a strong central regulative gov't is necessary in maintaining proper governance for solving and preventing the nations ailments the Republicans continue to disregard for their own personal gains against societies interest as a whole.

 

Two forms of thinking :

• Have others think and decide for you
• Think and decide for yourself

Which accomplishes more ? Which form is closer to slavery ? Which form provides more self-assurance and more self-worth ? Which is superior ?

 

Rules to follow while thinking yourself - being held accountable:

The Republican "think only for yourself" is what was voted out of power and who's legacy is now the headlines for the staggering economy, environment etc. - hopefully the midterms will keep their philosophy off the shelf.
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Very nice post.

Here are views on this from some very wise men:

"The policy of the American government is to leave its citizens free, neither restraining them nor aiding them in their pursuits." — Thomas Jefferson

"Society in every state is a blessing, but government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one." — Thomas Paine

"The makers of the Constitution conferred, as against the government, the Right to be let alone; the most comprehensive of rights, and the right most valued by civilized men" — Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis, Olmstead v. United States (1928)

"When all government, in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the Center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated" — Thomas Jefferson

"The general (federal) government will tend to monarchy, which will fortify itself from day to day, instead of working its own cures." — Thomas Jefferson

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters." — Daniel Webster

"It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong." — Thomas Sowell

"The state is the coldest of all cold monsters. Coldly it lies, too; and this lie creeps from its mouth; ‘I, the state, am the people.’" — Friedrich Nietzsche

"The more people are controlled, the less contented they become. But when will leaders understand the significance of this?" — Lao Tsu

"Next to the right of liberty, the right of property is the most important individual right guaranteed by the Constitution and the one which, united with that of personal liberty, has contributed more to the growth of civilization than any other institution established by the human race." — William Howard Taft

"The Constitution is an instrument, above all, for limiting the functions of government… Throughout history, government has proved to be the chief instrument for thwarting man’s liberty. Government represents power in the hands of some men to control and regulate the lives of other men." — Barry Goldwater

 

Nice sentiments, especially those from Paine and Jefferson. Unfortunately, it is outdated thinking. We now put warning labels on documents such as The Constitution and The Federalist Papers letting people know that such reading can be hazardous to proper thinking.

 

If the Founding Fathers were alive today, the left would label them "right wing extremists" and talking heads of the MSM would explain to an unquestioning public how their ideas would never work.

 

Are you suggesting that founding fathers were bunch of sissy loud mouth who advocate wars and hatred but would´t dare to take up arms to defend their country and would put their tail between their legs and run to Singapore?
I don´t agree with that. There is a reason that they are called Founding Fathers while you and your friends are called "right wing extremists" but in my opinion "loud mouth chickens" is a more suitable name.

 

............

....even as the industry as a whole had its best quarter in two years.


Further evidence of where the nation is coming from and where accountability is leading the American people in a complete manor than the self interests of a selfish majority of +1.

The interpretations of quotes from previous leaders implying self over unity only highlights the need for continued economic reform.
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Its interesting to note that in 2009 when US GDP was about $14.2 trillion the US fortune 500 companies (publicly owned by shareholders) contributed $9.4 trillion in revenues. That is approximately 70% of the GDP. Of interest the $9.4 trillion in revenues from the fortune 500 is larger than the entire economy(GDP) of the nation with the 2nd largest economy in the world, Japan.



The US is capitalist nation. Plain and simple. About 5 years ago, before the recession, the Fortune 500 represented about 71% of US GDP. Contrast that to 1955 when the Fortune 500 represented less than 40% of GDP.

Private business represents the US economy. It is not socialist, its not close to socialism, its not a country in which the Government controls business, etc. Its hosts the largest economy in the world, and most of its economy is handled by very large firms. Its just the way it is currently. Its a fact.

Its different than 55 years ago, when large companies didn't dominate the economy to such a degree.

Further, during the first quarter, 2010, members of the S&P 500 (which is virtually identical to the Fortune 500) experienced the greatest year over year growth in Profits in the entire time period in which this has been measured. (approximately 20 years). US privately owned nations (with widespread stock ownership) had their greatest percentage profit growth E.V.E.R.

Astounding.

Now how did their profits grow? Their revenue growth was only about 6-8% yet their profits grew dramatically faster, in fact the fastest ever.

They cut expenses. More specifically they fired people. That is why there is such high unemployment. Despite this enormous increase in profits the private business world is currently only doing minimal hiring. That way they are protecting their profits, and probably strengthening their balance sheets. But they aren't hiring.

Its called capitalism.

Now the President wants to increase hiring. But he can't force the private companies to hire. Why not? Its not a communist or tyrannical govt controlled nation. Its not China which pretty much oversees everything. Its not a one trick economy like Saudi Arabia, or Venezuela which have wealth created by a single industry, and also have nationalized these huge industries.

Its a big capitalist nation.

The President wants to spur the economy and increase hiring since unemployment is so bad, and private companies aren't hiring to a great extent.

The Republican Congress doesn't want him to do that. They both call him a socialist, a communist, and someone who wants to expand debt indefinitely.

Well, frankly, in a unique nation, which is so extremely large and capitalistic, the President is as far from a socialist as the Right Wingers are from making any sense at all.

Running a hiring program would increase debt. I acknowledge that. But it isn't socialistic or communist. Its not central govt control. Its not Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, or Venezuela.

Since the private economy isn't hiring yet, do some things to get more people working, buying things, paying taxes. If you want to cut govt expenses, I'd say cut some of the military budget. We spend 1/2 of what the entire world spends on the military.

I'd also say tax the bejeebers out of Rush Limbaugh, his like, and the GOP economic no sense people here. I'm not sure exactly how they might respond, but maybe some of them would just pipe down and quit uttering nonsense. At least that would make a better world that made more sense.

 

Dude, I know you don't want to sound like Breezewood, but despite the wordiness of your post, only the two sentences above are really relevant to the message you are trying to get out. When you put them in isolation, they just sound like the usual partisan bullsh*t. It comes across almost as kooky as the stuff BreezeWood puts to print. The president wants to create jobs but the Republicans are preventing him from doing it? Really? And this:

followed by this:

Really? Do you really believe that? Isn't that the definition of Tyranny? How bout we target a tax at Media Matters, or MSNBC. How would you feel about that. Tyranny? I can't believe you even suggested it in the same post you claimed the US doesn't run a govt. controlled economy. Its double speak.

Venezuela was not a "single industry" economy. They had a large and thriving middle class with successful businesses and business people in a variety of industries. It is interesting you point out the nationalization of businesses. In the last year, we have nationalized large portions of our financial and automotive industries, and now are targeting the energy business. Its a slippery slope my friend.

Again with a classically partisan argument, though it least it is about the positions of each party vs the parties themselves ("evil" republicans and all that nonsense). Rather than play out arguments that have gone on for decades on these topics, lets focus on one small tiny little question.

How can the government taking tax dollars from citizens, minus the cost of taking the money(20%?), and then handing those tax dollars back to the citizens(Stimulus), be stimulate the economy better than never having taken the tax dollars in the first place. How is that not just pissing 20%(or whatever percent the administration of our tax dollars is) down the toilet in a highly inefficient scheme?