Dude, whichever wacko forced Steve to convert should be put to death himself. The version I presented above, is it the one we have for ourselves or the one we want you to believe in. Either way detailed arguments establishing it, and refuting all objections against it are at the other place.
It's also here and thousands of other places that document history accurately. I guess it reverts back to the shame problem I noted earlier. Forced conversions in islam is a normal behavior. It's how the religion spread. Why be ashamed of it? It's just one example of what islam is about. You even acknowledge, in a round about way, that islam's goal is world domination. It's islam's law, or war. Thanks, but I'll pass on that.
I can't personally agree with the accessment that any religious edict be law (without reason or dissention); as I know that would lead to endless wars. I like a government that adopts it's laws from reason, and that often comes from religious influences. The whole idea that if people don't accept things with blanket compliance that war is an evitability, is a scary thought to me. I'm really hoping that's not the exclusive view of most muslims. While I can't avow to be a true believer in any faith, I respect Jesus, and I respect the gospels in that they promote a voluntary approach to religion. That it's a personal chose to accept god....not a world or place where a certain view of god is law or else. I can't say that's been the history of many religions though, but I don't blame the originators for their followers (within reason).
Hi, spdude. I am glad I can discuss with another muslims Religios issues. Can I say something also? PLease do come read and answer my questions as I have the feeling muslims run away from my questions. May I prove you wrong here? This happens EVEN TODAY! Monday, September 18, 2006 Two kidnapped Western journalists who were freed in the Gaza Strip were forced at gunpoint to convert to Islam and at times roughly treated during their two-week abduction. ............. http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=139392 Forced conversion has been a norm in the past ... ................................. Terrible hurricanes which swept over the South Asia, when a peace-loving people were subjected to all imaginable terrors and torments wholesale massacres, pillages, abduction and enslavement of men and women, destruction of temples, palaces, images and libraries, and forcible conversion. The intruders sought to destroy the culture and religion of the land as the handiwork of Satan. Not only the fierce conduct of the intruder rulers but the newly converted people added more strength. Together with forcible conversion, and voluntary acceptance of Islam by fear, temptation of material gain or benefit, rarely by conviction, resulted in the steady flow of the natives to the fold of Islam, which constitutes the most important change in the native society during the middle age............... http://gaj123.tripod.com/IslamInAsia01.htm ............ May I say that you are completely wrong on this one as well. All religions except Islam are well aware that the laws of God are to be implemented freely from His children. 1. In most religions (except Islam) God instructs the spiritual teachers, saints, prophets etc. to teach people: 1a. To Love each other. 1b. To Love their neighbor. 1c. Even to Love their enemy. (These three are from the New Testament.) How can God give such instructions to Jesus and then 600 years later to give completely opposite instructions to Muhammad? God is God, Almighty, Loving of all. War is for the fools. Peace is for the smart. This is the word of God. And it is absolutely True. Question: 1. How can you prove Muhammad is a True Prophet, the last one as he claims? (I know for a fact there was at least one more after Jesus and that is not Muhammad). 2. Who is Muhammad to speak for God, that there will be no more prophets after him? 3. Since when God started using warriors as Spiritual Teachers, can you show such? 4. Do you know that Muhammad denies Jesus crucifixion? This alone shows that Muhammad was not that great of a prophet (if at all). 5. Do you know that Muhammad at age 58 (I believe) married the 9years old Aisha? Do you think Muhammad was her best choice? 6. Don't you think that could be a bad example for the coming generations, where much older men can marry very young girls for sexual pleasure? (Actuall they are doing that nowadays) 7. Did Muhammad approve of having slaves or captives and did he possessed any? My opinion: I strongly doubt God will ever use VIOLENT people as prophets-Spiritual Teachers to bring a Divine Teaching to the people on earth. For a violent prophet(or spiritual teacher) will give an excuse for his followers to use Violence in their relations between themselves and others. God does not like violence among his children on earth the same way your father wouldn’t like to see his children fighting each other. This is the problem with the war I have. It is against the God's will. The fruits of the war are death and destruction. Destruction (generally) is the goal of Satan. sunlove, Thank you for reading this. I hope you can answer my questions.
Please pose the questions in the thread I linked to above... or simply search that forum to find the answers already given... you know, similar to when you have adsense related questions you first search the forum right. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=329747
it's a seven day ban for talking bad about Vietnam veterens. Should be over soon. In the meantime: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I thought in case Christians had questions about Islam, and they wanted the opinion of an ex-Christian preacher, they could ask him their questions. http://www.islamtomorrow.com/ His site is packed with videos, audios and articles.
Why not post them here? Why not answer them here? Is there a financial interest in diverting people here to another forum?
Did we leave Jews out intentionally? I know, I know... I thought in case muslims had questions about leaving islam, and they wanted the opinion of ex-muslims, they could ask their questions here.
No financial interest, lol. Five years of effort has been put in gathering all the material in those threads, by people who spend hours daily replying to the exact same stuff being mentioned here. It really is more efficient to direct people there.
People spend hours daily replying/posting here. Perhaps you want to direct them to a single thread that is hundreds of pages long where it is impossible to find anything so that replies like "it's already been answered" can be served up as the proper response? We're already seeing it in action, right? Somehow I don't believe "efficiency" is your goal BTW, another good source people might be interested in is: Jihad Watch
Nice come back. Your ignorance just made my statements valid. Now, I am disputing pro-islamic propaganda. There are also only about 400,000 Muslims world wide, not 1 Billion. I don't watch Fox News. I love it. Even muslims now resort to using the Fox News Card. What next, are you going to cry? I did that search and came up with things like, "the facts behind the fiction", "the islamic myth", etc... Thank you for proving my point!
spudude, I was hoping you would give an answer to my questions (I suspected though you wouldn't). You don't want to answer my questions, and I understand you why. Silence usually means a sign of agreement. You agree with me, but just don't want to put it in writing. You are afraid that anything you say will discredit Islam. It is not easy to give up smoking for a man who is addicted to it, in the same way it is not easy for a man to give up old convictions. I doubt anybody can bring me sufficient proof that Muhammad is truly that great of a prophet as he claims to be. sunlove, Best of Luck
So, you think that's a fake website and Yusuf Estes was never an ex-Christian preist and never converted to Islam? http://www.islamtomorrow.com/ Here you go. Everything you ever wanted to know about Islam It's all nicely categorised. No need to sift through hundreds of pages. Just follow the links and read carefully.
Islam 101 for Infidels spdude, are you also syriankid? I see he is from Toronto also. Or does he teach at the same school you do?
"So, you think that's a fake website and Yusuf Estes was never an ex-Christian preist and never converted to Islam?" I'm not impressed with ex-Christians. An ex-Christian minister put together a list of contradictions in the Bible. The list is real. The contradictions aren't. After looking at it I was glad to see that the person removed themselves from the ministry. They were incapable of reading the Bible on even the most basic level. Mindless drones still try to throw that list around like it proves something. All it proves is the illiteracy of the person posting it. The same is probably true for your new hero considering what I know about Islam. I'm not going to bother wasting my time reading through pointless literature when whether or not islam is true rests on one single simple question: Did every prophecy that Mr M ever made come to pass? Quote a propechy from the quran and when it was fulfilled.
http://www.islamtomorrow.com/articles/trinity_discussed_by_nonmuslims.asp Tell me what's wrong with this article. I made it through a couple paragraphs before finding out it was garbage. Currently I have no reason to proceed through the rest of what I think I can safetly assume to also be nonsense. Where in the Bible does Jesus claim to be the son of God. Where does he claim to be God? If you can tell me that, I'll believe you've actually critically read this site you're refering to.
spdude, I gave you proofs you were wrong putting them on this site. I'll give one more HERE not directing you on another. You want Islam to be seen as Peace and Love, but that's not how it is practiced around the world. Here are examples from TODAY. Iranian leader urges more papal protests By LEE KEATH, Associated Press Writer 1 minute ago CAIRO, Egypt - Al-Qaida in Iraq warned Pope Benedict XVI on Monday that its war against Christianity and the West will go on until Islam takes over the world, and Iran's supreme leader called for more protests over the pontiff's remarks on Islam. Protests broke out in South Asia and Indonesia, with angry Muslims saying Benedict's statement of regret a day earlier did not go far enough. In southern Iraq, demonstrators carrying black flags burned an effigy of the pope. Islamic leaders around the world issued more condemnations of the pope's comments, .................... Al-Qaida in Iraq and its allies said Muslims would be victorious and addressed the pope as "the worshipper of the cross," saying "you and the West are doomed as you can see from the defeat in Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya and elsewhere. ... We will break up the cross, spill the liquor and impose the 'jizya' tax, then the only thing acceptable is a conversion (to Islam) or (being killed by) the sword." ............... "If the stupid pig is prancing with his blasphemies in his house," the group said in a Web statement, referring to the pope, "then let him wait for the day coming soon when the armies of the religion of right knock on the walls of Rome." In Iran, supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei used the comments to call for protests against the United States. He argued that while the pope may have been deceived into making his remarks, the words give the West an "excuse for suppressing Muslims" by depicting them as terrorists. .............. So far, protests over the pope's comments have been smaller. However, there has been some violence: Attackers hurled firebombs at seven churches in the West Bank and Gaza Strip over the weekend, and a nun was shot to death in Somalia. .............. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060918/ap_on_re_mi_ea/muslims_pope What do you think about all these protests and actions from Islamists? sunlove Looking at all this it makes me believe time and time again, thanks God we are stronger than you. How come it's only Islamists that reacts in this way? Don't you think that they get this behaivior from the Islamic religion? If Muhammad preached Peace, Love, Forgiveness, Compassion why don't we see that from the believers (muslims)?