Islam calls us Jews and Christians, Pigs and Monkeys

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&q=islam+pigs+monkeys&btnG=Search+News

Why shouldn't we label them thus? In fact I have once said that if a Muslim had to eat pigs he would be accused of Cannibalism.

"Things are said about Jews and Christians, sometimes comparing them to pigs and monkeys, which would attract the attention of the Thought Police if they were uttered here."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...ent.html?in_page_id=1787&in_article_id=405456

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=397500503034113739

That's not new ...

 

It's easy to be the bad guys - you can say and do whatever you want as you are not held to any standards of behavior (look at the apologists for Islam). A lot harder to be the good guys.

 

So many islam haters in this forum!!!!

 

Yes, that's because these morons kill in the name of Allah. Our religious leader spoke, and muslim cowards replied by killing a nun. No wonder you people get thrashed in all corners of the world.

 

By default, verses in the Qur'an are taken literally, amongst Muslim scholars, unless there is good reason to think otherwise. A lot of phrases in the Qur'an are known as metaphors because scholars are aware that such a phrase was used by poets of the time, however without knowing this one could mistakenly take things literally.

One of the verses about pigs and monkeys, 5:60, can be translated as:

This refers to the the idea that Allah had, in times past, turned "People of the Book" into apes and swine for their evil deeds; just as others were drowned in the time of Noah. I'm not going to argue for a literal or metaphorical interpretation, but even if taken literally, anything is possible from God; maybe they acquired some disease that made them that way. Whatever the case, the verse does not mean that the Qur'an is viewing "People of the Book" that exist today as apes and pigs, nor descended from such, whether you take the verse literally or not. In fact, the idea that Islam views Jews and Christians as being, or descended from, apes and pigs is mostly spread by anti-Islamic media for obvious reasons. After quick web search, I could see that practically all links containing this specific notion are non-Islamic (e.g. Special Report - No. 11, by memri, which I cannot live-link) and reference obscure speeches and experiences which are unverifiable.

The extension of this concept, that the pigs and apes (not the Jews and Christians as the aforementioned websites would have you believe) that exist today are descended from the tribes that were turned into apes and pigs would just be speculation by people (Muslim or not).

 

Oh yeah????? well, answer this:

Whether in context or not, the koran instructs the believers to slay Jews and Christians and other unbelievers. Try taking this out of the context and in the context and gimme an explanation for both contexts. Huh, I think I nailed you with this one, mate.

 

It is irrelevant what people think the Koran says. People ARE, in fact, killing people in the name of Allah and promoting evil in the name of it.

 

dilipsam's reply to my post regarding apes and swine was essentially, "Oh yeah," which doesn't qualify for much (the rest of his reply begins a new claim). Perhaps, he could not come up with a decent argument so moved his own thread, concerning the quotes about apes and swine, to something totally different; a common method employed by people who can't debate with reason.

So, dilipsam, do we take it that you cannot argue with my response? I'd like clear that up before moving to your next claim. By the way, my post didn't use any argument of context, the verses even on their own are clearly referring to past tribes.

 

True followers of Islam have no values.

 

I had given you the Google link. Why are there so many news items for that?

If the Koran says it within a certain context, then why are your preachers (local imams) resorting to such lectures in their mosques. So, instead of reforming me, go reform your imams.

Whenever provoked, Muslims start preaching and swearing but why isn't that when Muslims are on the wrong side, no muslim has the guts to question them?

 

Nine, count them, nine items is a lot? You can give me a thousand links to news articles, but can you give me one directly from a group of Muslim scholars or the Qur'an/hadith that states that all Jews and Christians are pigs or apes or descended from such?

As I pointed out, the Qur'an states that certain evil-doing tribes in the past were turned into apes and swine; no real Muslim would deny this (be it in a literal or metaphorical way), but where do your links get to jump to the idea that Jews and Christians that live today are descended from those "apes and swine?"

Lets see your first few "news articles" then:

1) Linked from "counterterrorismblog.org" no doubt a popular news outlet for anti-Islamics, a blog by Douglas Farah (whoever he is) says:

...Nothing more, no sources referenced. You expect people to swallow that pill?

2) Linked from the Israeli "Jerusalem Post" (jpost.com). Surely a non-biased source there!

Again we are expected to take their word for it. No sources given.

3) Linked from the British Daily Mail, an article by Peter Hitchens

This is again that mysterious quote of some unknown preacher. I'm seeing a pattern here...



No doubt since the pig is regarded in such a way by Muslims that it is used as an insult, but no Muslim of understanding would accept the illogical notion that Jews or Christians are related to pigs and apes (do their genes alter when they convert to Islam?).

and the result of those articles is ignorant beliefs and generalisations such as yours given here, that imams go about preaching this. I've never actually heard such a lecture in person, have you?

On the contrary all the articles I have seen by Muslim Islamic scholars (islamonline.net, "Ask About Islam" section, search for keywords, for example) have stated that the verses refer to unspecific tribes in the past, and emphatically state that this has nothing to do with Jews and Christians per se. Of course they're talking to a brick wall with attitudes such as yours.

 

I think this thread should be closed. No human should be judge by their religion, their colour, race, ethnic origins, what "their race" has done in the past.

We are all individuals and can not be held responsible for others, even if they hold some similar beliefs

"All we are saying is: give peace a chance."
--John Lennon

"Imagine all the people living life in peace.
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.
I hope someday you'll join us, and the world will live as one."
--John Lennon

Now where's that hash pipe gone?

 

He who has no sin cast the first stone.

 

Sure:

http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Area=sr&ID=SR01102

And how it's taught to 3 year old girls and children in cartoons:

http://www.memritv.org/Search.asp?ACT=S5&P1=165

Need we continue with denial?

 

Because, There wouldnt be any difference between them and us then..

 

This link wasn't in the list of articles the OP referenced, I was referring to them alone and furthermore the memri is not an Islamic website, nor scholarly, but in fact US/Israeli (check the Wikipedia article on memri). The amusing thing is that your "new" link is already pointed out by myself earlier in the thread, relevant part highlighted in bold since you had trouble spotting it...

Try clicking on the sources given at memri, most of them don't even work and practically all of them are unverifiable references to speeches (since memri claim to do their own translations they can make up what they want).

I can only assume that like with my earlier post, you have not bothered to watch it or even read the transcript properly. There is nothing wrong with the animation (even if it is a fiction and given with memri's translation) or its message to children and I would recommend it to any "People of the Book" today. The cartoon tells the story of part of a tribe that disobeyed the covenant of their Lord by working on the Sabbath. By this, we can infer they were Jewish, but as many of you may know Muslims consider the early Jews to be followers of Islam and that modern Judaism is a corruption, so from the Muslim point of view they are Jewish by descent but "Islamic" by religion.

The righteous part of this tribe knew that God eventually brings collective disaster to people when they disobey Him outright, hence the building of a wall (akin to the building of an Ark by Noah). Eventually God dishes out His punishment to the evil side and it even mentions how the pigs and apes died out: "Grandfather:"Praise the Lord, who has saved us. They remained in this condition for three days, and then were annihilated. The wind has cast them into the sea."

So how could it imply that modern Jews and Christians are descended from the pigs and apes if they were annihilated? In fact in the cartoon doesn't even mention the word Jews (memri only uses the word) and without the word Sabbath one could easily think that it was a more modern Arab-Muslim tribe, rather than the ancient Jewish tribe it means to portray. If you actually understand the cartoon it is more pro-Jewish than anything, since the righteous side is supposedly of Jewish descent too, and its central message is to not disobey God. This story is equivalent to plenty of Biblical tales concerning Jews. Maybe you can point out something in that transcript that even hints at modern-day Jews and Christians being pigs and apes?

Instead of getting your information from memri's interpretations of children's cartoons and three year-old preachers that apparently speak for Islam according to memri, look to the source itself.

 

I admit I'll have to agree with you on this one.

 

Incorrect. You specifically wrote:

And I did that exactly by linking here. Denial isn't necessary.

I have. Have you? For example.

I can only assume you didn't actually take the time to read it, and are still in denial.

I really don't care what your excuse is, you asked, I provided and you are now back peddaling because you know it's true.

Maybe you could read it again and instead of making excuses for it, accept it for what it is. Let alone the other link I provided.

The source is just fine. It's your denial that needs checking

BTW, there are 26 in total available from the site on this subject.

Did you have any more denial?

 

Keep dreaming that Jews was "islamic".

All this "islam" is big fake.

We all know Jews are the chosen. your "mohammad" wants to join the Jews before he invent "islam" but they didn't allow him to do so because he wasn't Jew etc.

So that wouldn't happend, they reject him and he was disapointed and jealous them (because they are the chosen people of God), so he crate the islam that similar to Jews bible, but he add some evil shits.

Jealous bring hatred, that's the process.