We Blocked FaceBook in Pakistan

Yeh, but would it be possible to reform Islam away from death for Homosexuals and oppression of women without changing the Quran? At least Christians can cling to the New Testament which doesn't openly advocate violence (unlike the Old Testament). Come to think of it, what is written in the Old Testament is probably one of the large sources of issue with religious Jews on the planet.

 

It's not so much about re-writing, but about interpretation and translation. She encourages Muslims to develop reasoning and critical thinking skills, and believes that Islamic scripture can be debated. The Quran was written and translated in a patriarchal society, and she believes this bias against women is reflected in translations of the Quran. For example, the traditional verse 4:34 is questioned in the Reformist translation of the Quran.

Here's a traditional translation by Yusuf Ali:

In the Reformist Quran it indicates a woman would be obedient to G-d first, above her husband -- and suggests that a man may not have the "right" to beat his wife according to this verse. They base this on translations of the Arabic. Here's what it says about that verse...

I'm interested in what you think about that, and Obamanation's question as well.

 

Its going to be lifted after may 31st. Crazy that they went as far as to BAN it.

 

in most of Islamic countries laws are same as Europe and USA I think even Iran before Mullahs regimen had secular law and maybe you don't know that we had a Shah (Reza Shah) who banned women to cover their head. Reza shah lost his power by your troop when you occupied Iran in World war two. in his era no Mullahs dare to go to streets with their uniform, so you have to know how much Mullahs owe you! lol
in fact in Islamic country priests and Mullahs more reiterate in peace parts of Quran and Hadith but anyway can't prevent Muslim to read other parts.
you can't accept new testament and deny old testament. anyway prophet Jesus never got power in his time but Prophet Mohammad and Jews got it so I guess their attitude should be somewhat different.
last year I saw a report from Oprah Vinfry about some religious people in Nort of Texas. those people had polygamy, married girls underage (12 years old), no Music and so on. they Justify their behavior by old testament mostly. Most of Jews prophets had more than one wife.

 

well said, though wajid what will u say abt those ppl who use proxy or VPN for login into FB since they r addict of FB ( 1st day when fb was banned i heard 30+% ppl were using proxies or something like that for using FB.

 

as you know Quran descend in Arabic Language so for more understanding you have to be familiar with Arabic language.
in the verse of Quran you mentioned above, I guess Yusuf Ali translate it more close to Quran than other translations I saw in English. yeah in Arabic said "Azrebuhone" means beat woman whereas in other translations said leave woman!

in this part

their means!! oh their money mentioned in Quran. men paid money for Marriage and beside pay cost of living so always women must be ready for services men desire.
"Qavamoon" in Arabic means "in charge of women" and in continue you see "because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other"
"Fazl" means superiority not strength.

 

you are right I think but anyway Pakestani people have democracy in their country and seems they love Islamic laws. guess we need time.

 

What I think, what I want, what I say is not Islam, if someone want to be a good Muslim then follow Quran and prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, any misinterpretation of Quran means its against Quran or Almighty Allah.

 

"Men paid money for Marriage and beside pay cost of living so always women must be ready for services men desire." Wow, that sounds more like describing a prostitute, rather than a healthy loving relationship between a husband and wife.

Anyway, here's the list of 4 words, that according to Irshad has a variety of meanings. Depending on how you translate them, it could make the difference between whether a Muslim man might expect their wife to live as an obedient, subservient, inferior. It could make the difference if a Muslim man thinks it's ok to beat his wife, or if he should just get out, take a walk, and take a break. Right?

1. kawamuna ala al-nisa
in charge of women
providers for women
observant of women
observe/maintain


2. DRiBuhunna
scourge
beat
beat lightly
strike
get
to travel
to get out
to beat or regret
to set up
to give (examples)
to take away
to ignore
to condemn
to seal
to draw over
to cover
to explain


3. NuSHuZ
rebellion
disobedience
opposition
flirting
engaging in an extramarital affair
marital disloyalty


4. QaNiTat
devoted to G-d
obedient


Not clear on your answer, is the verse below what you support?

Yusuf Ali:
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

 

Great post as usual Rebecca. I was going to chime in to say that what babak44 was describing was prostitution, but you beat me to the punch.

Frankly I find the idea of being obligated to provide any "services" to your partner simply because they support you financially absolutely abhorrent.

I wonder in relationships where the woman earns more than the man (rare in Muslim couplings but it does happen from time to time) if then the woman is suddenly allowed to demand what she likes from the man? Is she then allowed to beat him if he is disobedient because she uses HER means to support HIM?

 

Now Pakistanis create rival Muslim Facebook

It is Millat Facebook

 

They hate Facebook so they decide to make a site that looks the exact same? If they have any success I'm pretty sure a lawsuit will be (rightly) headed their way.

 

this manner was before Islam even worse in Arabia I think. even now in maney parts of the world wife is a material for sell and buy.
I guess Moslim more follow their culture in this matter some do that and some don't.

I guess in that part of quran you mentioned, can see some advice not command. next verses show reconsliation way:

I guess already answered it

 

wow! I can undrestand you. feel anger in your voice! lol
I remember some years ago when read this part of Quran to my wife. she responded "I don't care what God said, I'm master not you".

 

as I see this facebook wasn't filter in Iran! but I'm not sure Muslims post their real photos and names.

 

To believe that verse, is to say G-d wants all women to be beneath, inferior, subservient, obedient to men -- if they get out of line, it's permissible to beat them (lightly) into submission. As it appears you feel believing the Quran, you have no choice but to believe Yusuf Ali is the word of G-d, while it disrespects and disregards half the people in the world (women).

Thanks Alexis, always nice to see you.

I could understand using a proxy, there are probably people in Pakistan making money on Facebook. It's nonsensical for the government to say that they need to agree with every single page on Facebook, or they will ban the entire site. I was on Facebook the other day, found something offensive, and just clicked the back button. It works.

 

what mentioned in Bible? I not sure about Christianity but guess this religion follow same manner.
all the Christian follow what Bible old and new testament said about women? in Bible also slavery and polygamy (old testament) permitted.
why you write G-D? are you Jewish believer?

I haven't any problem with this verse of Quran but our women don't accept it!

we discussed about Religion not our believes I think.

 

What if there was a Facebook page saying "women are inferior, women are subservient to men, beat them if they get out of line." Many people would consider that as hateful speech, and there would probably be many complaints. Yet, somehow when the hate speech is associated with religion, it typically gets a free pass. Funny how it works that way, isn't it?

As far as Christianity, I think you would have a difficult time on this forum finding any Christian that says they support a verse like that. But yeah, in the history of the Abrahamic religions, they are known for a patriarchal system that discriminates heavily against women. I say G-d like that, because of a promise made, but I'm agnostic.

I'm glad the Iranian women don't accept that verse! LOL.

By saying "we discussed about Religion not our believes I think" what would you like to add?