Brother Sunlove you can ask me some of your questions.I will try my best to convince you not once but many times as you want.I will post later about Prophet Muhammad's(PBUH) tolerance towards slaves.The religion of Islam is a very beautiful religion when it comes to human equality and to liberation of slaves. When Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) brought Islam to his people from Allah Almighty, they used to practice the Judeo-Christian and Pagan slavery. They used to buy and sell slaves, abuse them, and flog them to death if slaves disobey. The Muslims had fought long and bloody battles against the Pagan Arabs to liberate slaves and women.I will post all that.If you have any doubts ask me.
Again taking verses completely out of context and trying to reword the meanings into your own meanings (well of course this is all copy-pasted from a site too, since you have proven your inability to actually research instead of parrot. I love your last two paragraphs which if are your own words then it shows your twisting of truth outright and no one has to look any further. try again if you will, but as always your info is wrong to start with so I won't try to detail out each part since you haven't taken time to research what you copy/pasted in the first place. How about just link to the page you are copying instead of taking up so much space here? OK.. like this: Islam lies
Possessing people. What is that? ..... You didn't prove me wrong if you think you did. Slavery was OK with Muhammad. He talked about it as it was normal and in order of things. In these cases at least. A prophet of the Size he claims to be, should have much loftier ideas about all people.
funny thing about slavery at times. A good master back then would be better than most bosses today. The USA history of slavery was mostly that of one human have a greater value of another human. Bondservants where those who after their time was up (seventh year released) if they wanted to remain working for their master they can choose to and become a bond servant. They would have an ear pierced to represent this. I would imagine that that would be a good boss to work for. Slavery in other areas and other times all had different views on the slaves, mostly that of being no greater than an animal (kind of how many people treat other people vs. their own pets today.)
Whining about slavery people forget that we are slaves to God. I don't suppose the Koran makes that connection. Slavery is no more about the oppression of people than Communism is. That's just the way it tends to work out here on Earth.
Check the link in the signature. You'll find a lot to compare and links to quran of different versions.
It is not the question of copy-pasting from a site.It is the question of proving all this wrong.As long as I am copy pasting the truth it hardly matters where i get all this information from.Instead of telling all this is false why don't you explain why is it written in Bible. Again you are telling the same thing.Is it wrong to marry a orphan girl ,take care of her,give her respect and make her your wife. Is it wrong to marry a slave and treat her equally like your first wife. Even though slavery existed but cant you see they were treated equally like other people unlike in other religions.When you deal justly with slave(wife) and your first wife then how can she be slave anymore.She will live happily and protected and not as a slave.please think.. Now Lets start with basics Mr. Love.Why slavery existed and what Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) did to curb it... Why did slavery exist during Islam? And how did Islam deal with it? First, it is important to know that thousands of years ago life was different than today. Today, people wouldn't accept slavery for any reason. The reason for this is because people are a lot more independent both financially, education wise, mentally, etc... But people back then were different. When a tribe or a group of people lose a major battle and their money is mostly, if not all, is taken as war booty by the other side, then people could and would accept being slaves for the following reasons: 1- Both financial and social security. When their country or tribe lost the war, they also lost most or all of their money as war booty. Being out of money and food, it becomes necessary for an individual to find the means for basic survival in life. Living as a slave would provide this. 2- Protection from hostile individuals. Even under the Islamic rule, you can still find hostile individuals who violate the Law and take matters into their own hands. An enemy family can be sometime in danger if they don't have a "protector". 3- Widows, Orphans, and the extremely poor of the enemy side need the financial and social protection from a Master. Back then, there were no governments with good social system that protects everyone. Slavery back then was that social system in special cases. 4- "Right hand possession" are the human-captives of war who lived as slaves among Muslims. There are probably more points I can add, but I think these are sufficient enough. Islam is a religion that came to fight slavery and end it once and for all. Liberation of Slaves: The reason why Muslims had slaves is because when Islam was still weak and growing, the Arab Pagans' tribes used to launch continuous attacks on the Muslims to destroy Islam once and for all. Muslims had entered many bloody and vicious battles against the non believers which had cost both sides many lives from the men. When the Muslims used to enter a city after defeating its army, they would face a new dilemma. They often meet hundreds of non believing women and young children and elderly left without any support because their men had died in the battle field. For this reason, Allah Almighty allowed for the Muslims to take those people as slaves to help them survive. Keep in mind that during that time, the Muslims didn't have an Islamic government and welfare system to take care of the orphans and widows from the non believers. The Muslims had to take care of them from their own means. Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him ordered the Muslims to be very sensitive to their slaves. He ordered the Muslims to buy the slave young boys and girls the same quality of clothes and gifts that they would buy for their children. He also ordered Muslims not to hit or be violent to adult slaves. He ordered Muslims to be loving and caring for them. Prophet Muhammad also urged wealthy Muslims to buy slaves from the Pagan Arabs and to let them free after that. One of Prophet Muhammad's best friends was a slave from Africa called Bilal Al-Habashi. Bilal was bought from his Pagan master by Abu Baker Al-Siddeek, one of Muhammad's best friends. After Abu Baker bought Bilal, he set him free. Islam as I mentioned in the introduction came to fight slavery. Allah Almighty ordered the Muslims to gradually liberate slaves and to give them their freedom in many cases. Let us look at Noble Verse 4:92 "Never should a believer kill a believer; but (If it so happens) by mistake, (Compensation is due): If one (so) kills a believer, it is ordained that he should free a believing slave, and pay compensation to the deceased's family, unless they remit it freely. If the deceased belonged to a people at war with you, and he was a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (Is enough). If he belonged to a people with whom ye have treaty of Mutual alliance, compensation should be paid to his family, and a believing slave be freed. For those who find this beyond their means, (is prescribed) a fast for two months running: by way of repentance to God: for God hath all knowledge and all wisdom." In this Noble Verse, we see that Allah Almighty ordered to free a believing slave if a Muslim accidentally kills another Muslim. This Noble Verse came to encourage Muslims to liberate slaves. Let us look at Noble Verse 58:3 "But those who divorce their wives by Zihar, then wish to go back on the words they uttered, (It is ordained that such a one) should free a slave before they touch each other: Thus are ye admonished to perform: and God is well-acquainted with (all) that ye do." This Noble Verse is another proof that Allah Almighty did encourage Muslims to liberate slaves. Narrated Abu Musa Al-Ash'ari: "The Prophet said, "Give food to the hungry, pay a visit to the sick and release (set free) the one in captivity (by paying his ransom)." (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Food, Meals, Volume 7, Book 65, Number 286)" Narrated Asma: "No doubt the Prophet ordered people to manumit slaves during the solar eclipse. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Eclipses, Volume 2, Book 18, Number 163)" If a Muslim beats his slave or slaps him on the face, then he must set him free: "Zadhan reported that Ibn Umar called his slave and he found the marks (of beating) upon his back. He said to him: I have caused you pain. He said: No. But he (Ibn Umar) said: You are free. He then took hold of something from the earth and said: There is no reward for me even to the weight equal to it. I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: He who beats a slave without cognizable offence of his or slaps him, then expiation for it is that he should set him free. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Oaths (Kitab Al-Aiman), Book 015, Number 4079)" Narrated Anas: "The Prophet said, 'None of you will have faith till he wishes for his (Muslim) brother [this includes slaves, since a slave is considered a brother as shown above] what he likes for himself.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Belief, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 12)" Narrated Abu Musa: "Some people asked Allah's Apostle, 'Whose Islam is the best? i.e. (Who is a very good Muslim)?' He replied, 'One who avoids harming the Muslims with his tongue and hands.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Belief, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 10)" Narrated Al-Ma'rur: "At Ar-Rabadha I met Abu Dhar who was wearing a cloak, and his slave, too, was wearing a similar one. I asked about the reason for it. He replied, "I abused a person by calling his mother with bad names." The Prophet said to me, 'O Abu Dhar! Did you abuse him by calling his mother with bad names You still have some characteristics of ignorance. Your slaves are your brothers and Allah has put them under your command. So whoever has a brother under his command should feed him of what he eats and dress him of what he wears. Do not ask them (slaves) to do things beyond their capacity (power) and if you do so, then help them.' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Belief, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 29)" THE ENDING OF SLAVERY IN ISLAM Perhaps the best example I can provide regarding Laws developing gradually in the Noble Quran is the ending of the Judeo-Christians' and Pagans' slavery in Arabia. Let us look at the following Noble Verses: "Serve God, and join not any partners with Him; and do good- to parents, kinsfolk, orphans, those in need, neighbours who are near, neighbours who are strangers, the companion by your side, the wayfarer (ye meet), and what your right hands possess: For God loveth not the arrogant, the vainglorious;- (The Noble Quran, 4:36)" Freeing of slaves is Commanded by Allah Almighty: "It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness to believe in God and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the God-fearing. (The Noble Quran, 2:177)" "Never should a believer kill a believer; but (If it so happens) by mistake, (Compensation is due): If one (so) kills a believer, it is ordained that he should free a believing slave, and pay compensation to the deceased's family, unless they remit it freely. If the deceased belonged to a people at war with you, and he was a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (Is enough). If he belonged to a people with whom ye have treaty of Mutual alliance, compensation should be paid to his family, and a believing slave be freed. For those who find this beyond their means, (is prescribed) a fast for two months running: by way of repentance to God: for God hath all knowledge and all wisdom. (The Noble Quran, 4:92)" If a slave requests his freedom from the Muslim master, he can get it: Yes slaves were taken from the blood-thirsty and hostile enemies, but they were also given the right to get their freedom when ever they want. The Noble Quran not only allows slaves to request their freedom from their Muslim masters, but also orders the Muslim masters to pay the slaves money to help them stand on their feet and to be able to face life with a good jump start. Let us look at Noble Verse 24:33 "Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until God gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which God has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is God, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them)," In this Noble Verse, we see that if a slave requests his freedom from his Muslim master, then his master not only must help him earn his freedom if there is good in the Slave, but also pay him money so the slave can have a good start in his free life. "The law of slavery in the legal sense of the term is now obsolete. While it had any meaning, Islam made the slave's lot as easy as possible. FINALLY Islam is a very merciful religion on slaves. Islam came and fought many bloody battles against the Arabs who believed in slavery and who brutally enslaved many people. Islam also sees the importance of liberating slaves, and had helped to gradually liberate slaves until all of them were ultimately freed. Islam allows for any slave to request from his Muslim owner his freedom, and orders the Muslim owner to grant that slave his freedom and to pay him money on top of it to help him get a good start in his new free life. SonLove is there anything more I can explain.If yes then ask me.
Oh my God how much you lie brother.First two web sites are by different muslims who created their own websites for non muslims to know and understand Islam The third website is by christians who converted to Islam. BROTHER WILLIE I strongly recommend you to go through these websites which I mentioned and understand Islam.Beware of all those false websites which guys mention here. They are anti-Islamic websites.If you have any queries please feel free to ask me.I am always here to help you.
Muslim= show me one lie I have told. Your sites that you show have many lies and many things printed that are distorted and I believe on purpose with the intention of being misleading. The verses on that site are taken out of context over and over again and his translations of the meanings are so far off it is rediculous. So, no you are not copy/pasting the truth. I debunked things from the start until I figured out you copied from a site, that others have already debunked the lies from. You will see, I haven't been here bashing islam which I believe is false on many levels, but I will correct you when you post lies about the Word of God or mislead others.
Ya i vil read these websites of muslim.D reason f my interest in islam starts like this i vil make it brief i must admit i did all d so called 'sins' on earth loto sex,crime,violence,drugs i did it all n i hd 2 pay.i hd a close encounter with death on my harley i found myself hospitalized after i collected senses with broken nose fractured knee stiches all over face oh jesus i was disfigured n ugly.my girl my frienz left me i kno y i was alone tottered i decided to change d way i perceive life .this blow changed me completely. I began 2 search peace in church i used2 go evry day 2 different church denominations.I started reading bible but found it work of men n convoluted.i bcame atheist but i was restless as if searchig somethin uncovered somethin deep i hd a dream jesus christ came in my dream his beautiful face with beard lit with moon light with clouds flying around n voice came oh willie y r u so restless n helpless.had i not told that last prophet f mankind muhammad vil guide u aftr me ,follow his path pray our alllah come follow his path come follow d rite path. in dream i had tears in my eyes.I wokeup it was midnight n i cried literally.
Let me guess - IP address the same as muslim? the strangeness of the writing here seems to wierd to be real, like someone purposely wrote it funny. (sorry if I am wrong and you don't know how to write in english? but this isnt even phonically written like most) Jesus said the Holy Spirit would guide - which I have already experienced in my life - not a man or prophet - the spirit! This tells me it was a muslim who wrote this, because it isn't even correct. LOL
..............but cant you see they were treated equally like other people unlike in other religions.When you deal justly with slave(wife) and your first wife then how can she be slave anymore.............. We are talking about Muhammad APPROVING slavery and POSSESSION of people. I cannot see now how they were treated 1,600 years ago. Seems like you don't see the point I made or you don't want to see it. SLAVERY IS NOT FROM GOD No matter how you treat the slaves. Muhammad was OK with IT! That is a sure sign Muhammad is not of the "Most Elevated Prophets" if he is a prophet at all. (Talking great things about God, doesn't make one a prophet.) Muslim, we can make an experiment if you wish. In Africa in some muslim countries slavery still exists. Go become a slave to somebody, then if they ever set you free come and share with us you stories. Or ask the slaves there how they are treated. If Muhammad preached: Love each other. Love your neighbor like yourself. Love your enemies. He would have never been OK with Slavery, no matter how difficult the times are. Jesus came before him and those times were difficult too. But Jesus has never been OK with slavery. The deeds one does speak for him.
"i hd a dream jesus christ came in my dream his beautiful face with beard lit with moon light with clouds flying around n voice came oh willie y r u so restless n helpless.had i not told that last prophet f mankind muhammad vil guide u aftr me ,follow his path pray our alllah come follow his path come follow d rite path." How do you know it was Jesus Christ?
Quote.........When a tribe or a group of people lose a major battle and their money is mostly, if not all, is taken as war booty by the other side, then people could and would accept being slaves for the following reasons: 1- Both financial and social security. When their country or tribe lost the war, they also lost most or all of their money as war booty. Being out of money and food, it becomes necessary for an individual to find the means for basic survival in life. Living as a slave would provide this. 2- Protection from hostile individuals. Even under the Islamic rule, you can still find hostile individuals who violate the Law and take matters into their own hands. An enemy family can be sometime in danger if they don't have a "protector". 3- Widows, Orphans, and the extremely poor of the enemy side need the financial and social protection from a Master. Back then, there were no governments with good social system that protects everyone. Slavery back then was that social system in special cases. 4- "Right hand possession" are the human-captives of war who lived as slaves among Muslims. There are probably more points I can add, ................... Muslim, with the points you showed me now you put Muhammad's reasoning on the same level as any other ordinary person. You see here things that ordianry people do. Fighing wars taking money, material things, taking slaves when they win the war. These are things that humans do. Not Divine Spiritual Teachers. .......Islam is a religion that came to fight slavery and end it once and for all.......... Muslum, you just mentioned in 4. "Right hand possession" are the human-captives of war who lived as slaves among Muslims. And in the very second sentence you say "Islam is a religion that came to fight slavery and end it once and for all." How could that be true? Once muslims are possessing slaves and at the same time Islam is fighting slavery. sunlove If Muhammad preached Love muslims wouldn't have taken slaves/captives.
Muslim, When you have a chance give me an answer to this: http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=141101&highlight=sunlove I am sorry, but don't you think that is offending to humanity? Having so many "muslims" in the Parliament and to have such a law? (Four witnesses to be present at the crime scene, ..... rape for example.)
what rubbish are you talking.Do you think wilie is my brother or myself. You guys cant digest the truth what brother Willie told and post rubblish to prove our religion wrong. You have so much hatred for us that you will do everything to prove our religion wrong.I have answered lot of answers here.I have proved how Bible of today is not the holy Bible of Jesus,terrorism in Bible,Slavery in Bible but still you guys are the same. Brother Willie It really is a very great dream.I think you should read Holy Quran and understand Islam because Islam is the true religion of God.What all Jesus(PBUH) told you is true.Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) is last messanger of Allah.Start believing in one God-Allah and pray to him only.Dont be athiest. Also, can you please tell who you are as Debunked thinks that you are me.Can you explain why you write like this.
Allah is a fake messenger of a none god. and the blood mohammed lets even now should be your first clue. IN CHRIST, and amen, who died, did not KILL mind you, but rather DIED for our sins, so that sins may be forgiven. when he went to heaven he poured his holy blood on the mercy seat. by the sacrifice of his life he did not go to heaven to fuck 72 virgins, but to save all, because, hey, Christ knew that women are people too. jesus knew this, yet this here mohammed, this supposed man of god, while alive, only only fucked them, and the younger the better. a bloody religion from the mind of a deseased and blood-stained man. islam will fail like all other lies. I say this in the name of Jesus Christ, the Light, the Way, the Truth
You really know our prophet wrong. That 72 virgins situation are totally LIE. How did you come up with this really? And respect other people's religions and prophets, since we write Christian, Bible and not christian, bible, you do the same and respect ours. Choose your words carefully..
Fuck you. This is America, not the Natrion of Stinking Islam. Choose your targets better and we wouldn;t be there in your countries kicking your ass