Scary but true... Islamic demographics in Europe!

I see that your doing some reading to loose you ignorance. You only posted a few fragments that best interests you. Let me quote some of Wikipedia that describes Illiria and illyrians to you.

"Illyrians were last mentioned in the 7th century AD. All the remaining tribes except perhaps the Romanized Vlachs[5] were Slavicised in the course of the Middle Ages, while the Albanians may represent an instance of southern Illyrian (or Thraco-Illyrian) continuity.[6][7]"


"The Illyrian languages have been thought connected to Venetic language but this view was abandoned later.[32] Other scholars linked it with the adjacent Thracian language supposing an intermediate convergence area or dialect continuum, but this view is also not generally supported.

All these languages were likely extinct by the 6th century although the Albanian language may represent a remote descendant of Illyrian dialects that survived in remote areas of the Balkans during the Middle Ages.[33"

Now your ignorance Leeds you to believe that Albanians didn't fight the Turks in ottoman empire because they were Turks them self.
Again some articles from Wikipedia.

" In the summer of 1444, in the field of Torvioll, the united Albanian armies under Skanderbeg faced the Ottomans under direct command of the Turkish general Ali Pasha, with an army composed of 25,000 to 40,000 men. Skanderbeg had under his command 7,000 infantry and 8,000 cavalry. 3,000 cavalry were hidden behind the enemy lines in a nearby forest under the command of John Musachi (Albanian: Gjon Muzaka) . At the given signal, they descended, encircling the Turks and giving Skanderbeg a much needed victory. About 8,000 to 22,000 Turks were killed and 2,000 were captured. His victory echoed across Europe because this was one of the few times that an Ottoman army was defeated in a set piece battle on European soil. In the coming years, Skanderbeg defeated the Turks two more times, once in 1445 in Moker (Dibra), and once more in 1447 in Oranik (Dibra) "

also

" In June 1450, an Ottoman army numbering approximately 100,000 men led again by Sultan Murad II himself laid siege to Krujë. Following a practise of scorched earth (thus denying the Ottomans the use of necessary local resources), Skanderbeg left a protective garrison of 1,500 men under one of his most trusted lieutenants, Vrana Konti (also known as Kont Urani), while with the remainder of the army he harassed the Ottoman camps around Krujë and attacked the supply caravans of the sultan's army. Three major Ottoman direct assaults on the city walls were repelled by the garrison, causing great losses to the besieging forces. Ottoman attempts at finding and cutting the water sources failed and the same happened with a sapped tunnel, which crumbled suddenly. An offer of 300,000 aspra (Turkish money) and a graduation to the Turkish army made to commander of the garrison Vrana Konti was disdainfully rejected by him.[25] By September the Ottoman camp was in disarray as morale sank and disease ran rampant. Murad II acknowledged the castle of Krujë would not fall by strength of arms and in October 1450, he lifted the siege and made his way to Edirne, leaving behind losses amounting to 20,000 dead.[26] Soon thereafter in the winter of 1450–1451, Murad died in Edirne and was succeeded by his son Mehmed II. "


This part shows how the pope considered Albanian national hero Skanderbeg as a defender of the Cristian cause.

" Skanderbeg's military successes evoked a great deal of interest and admiration from the Papal States, Venice, and Naples who were threatened by the growing Ottoman power. As an active defender of the Christian cause in the Balkans, Skanderbeg was also closely involved with the politics of four popes, including Pope Pius II, who hailed him as the Christian Gideon. "



This part shows were Albanian armies defeated sultan Mehmet II who was the conqueror of Constantinople and brought the end of the Byzantine empire.


"In 1466 Sultan Mehmed II personally led an army into Albania and laid siege to Krujë as his father had attempted sixteen years earlier. The town was defended by a garrison of 4,400 men, led by Prince Tanush Topia. After several months of siege, destruction and killings all over the country, Mehmed II (Fatih-The Conqueror), like Murad II, saw that seizing Krujë was impossible for him to accomplish by force of arms. Subsequently, he left the siege to return to Constantinople (Istanbul). However, he left a force of 40,000 men under Ballaban Pasha to maintain the siege, even building a castle in central Albania, which he named Il-basan (the modern Elbasan), to support the siege. Durrës would be the next target of the sultan, in order to be used as a strong base opposite the Italian coast.[31] Skanderbeg spent the following winter in Italy, unsuccessfully seeking aid in Rome and Naples. However, on his return he allied with Lekë Dukagjini, and together on 19 April 1467 they first attacked and defeated, in Kërraba region, the Turkish reinforcements commanded by Jonima, the brother of Ballaban Pasha, while Jonima himself was killed.[20] Four days later, on 23 April 1467, they attacked the Ottoman forces and laying siege to Kruja. The Second Siege of Kruja was eventually broken, resulting in the death of Ballaban Pasha by an Albanian arquebusier[7] named Gjergj Aleksi "



I am sick and tired arguing with an imbecile like you. Is not even worth my time anymore but i will remind you of this:
Kosovos independence is a done deal and you and all the savage Serbs can cry all you want.

 

This thread is now officially offtopic.

 

It's impossible to stay on topic with guys like atvking is the way I see it. He posted so much nonsense that it's impossible to not to comment it. Thou, it's waste of time to even speak with someone like he is.

 

They forgot that as technology becomes more advanced religion and superstition will decline anyway, I'm sure compaired with the rest of the universe we're not very intelligence creatures.

 

@klardi

ok heres quotes from your quote:
"the Albanians may represent an instance of southern Illyrian (or Thraco-Illyrian) continuity."

take note especially of these parts from your quote concerning your language:
"but this view was abandoned later"
"but this view is also not generally supported."
go back and read what you quoted a little more carefully LOOOL

note the "may", "abandoned" and "not generally supported" ...your "evidence" is pfffffffffffft to say the least

i posted facts that are very important and you have yet to dispute:

1) first historical mention of albanians in history 12th century.
2) earliest undisputed text in albanian 12th century
3) serbs 7th century...thats like 500 years before you

this is something you conveniently avoid commenting the truth must hurt eh?...or maybe you have some actual historic evidence? stands very clear in Wiki when the albanian people are first mentioned in history no doubt about this...sorry if you dont like the truth...

as for your skenderberg...i agree you fought the ottomans in the beginning...during ottoman expansion but i have a newsflash for you: EVERYBODY DID LOL...you conveniently forgot to mention what happened in the 500 years that followed: YOU BECAME TURKS! and serbs did not ...

quote klardi:
"This is how the majority of Albanians converted to Muslim. To avoid paying taxes for non Muslims and to gain high political rankings under ottoman empire " these are your words! LOL

well you guys sure put up a hell of a fight AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

i like how you skip time-lines of events and grasp at straws...nice try though...only theres a big hole between 1450 and 1900-s

i agree kosovo will never be a part of serbia theres no need to flare up in your nationalist/separatist insecurity ...i know why you are insecure LOL

@ moreplayerz.com
either say something intelligent or go troll somewhere else...its obvious you dont have the brains to comment on anything and all you are capable of is silly 1 sentence propaganda...go grow a brain or try to post something intelligent...like where you are from?

@helvetti
but this is very on topic...mulism expansion in europe...we already have 2 fake muslims states in europe...could not be more on topic LOL

 

Impossible, or at least difficult. He can't back up almost anything he prints so topic swaps are a necessity. He gets angry when his arguments are proven groundless, so his goal changes to obtaining an emotional response, officially qualifying him as a troll. The funny thing is, I suspect he actually believes what he puts to print even when he's fallen back to trolling, which leads me to believe he had no problem giving a nod to Milsovic's actions, even if he fled and didn't directly participate.

I thought this sentence, for instance, was outstanding:

@ moreplayerz.com
either say something intelligent or go troll somewhere else...its obvious you dont have the brains to comment on anything and all you are capable of is silly 1 sentence propaganda...go grow a brain or try to post something intelligent...like where you are from?

Four personal insults about your intelligence, mixed in with questioning of your ethnicity (as if that had anything to do with it), and the funny part..... he calls you a troll. Notice all the links, quotes, and discussion of the topic.


@ATVKing:

1) still waiting for my dollar. You are being very selfish.
2) Still waiting for more stories about the evil Albanian immigrants. Arent they the cause of all your problems?
3) still waiting for more advice on how the US should deal with it's immigrant problem. Didn't you recommend open borders?
4) Still waiting for more advice on dealing with the growing US Muslim population if we opened the borders. Didnt one of your heroes recommend genocide?

 

Geee switching to personal attacks and insults! I'm shocked! Well, not at all.
See, all you care about is somones nationality like that would make someone better or worst human being. No matter which nationality you belong to I would be ashamed if it was mine too.

 

@obamanation

you are the king of all trolls LOL...go back and see who started with the personal insults...if i follow suit then this is only in response

and again i never said "evil albanian immigrants" ...also go back and read my posts or go troll somewhere else...use correct wording and stop trolling statements in my mouth and you will get a response...

quote obamanation:
"so his goal changes to obtaining an emotional response, officially qualifying him as a troll"

what does making stuff up qualify you as? guess...it starts with a T and ends with ROLL...can you guess? LOL ive told you 1000 times i dont support milosevic you pedophile troll...

offer to obamanation: you accuse me of topic swaps...ill go back and count who swapped topics more in every single post between me and you...if i swaped only half as much topics as you did ill ban myself from the forum BUT if you swapped at least 2x more than i did you ban yourself OK? do we have a deal you TROLL?


@moreplayerz

ethnicity is obviously very important to you because in your first post to me (go back and read it) you called me a liar when i said i was not a serb...then you go putting words in my mouth in your next 1 sentence propaganda post...then AGAIN a one sentence propaganda troll post...then you out do yourself and actually post 2 sentences only with more propaganda and with no actual thoughts of your own..."this is not worth addressing" is all you can come up with...so what else am i supposed to think about you other than: you are a stupid troll...prove me wrong

as for personal attacks and insults your buddy klardi sure does not bother you does he? it would be too time consuming to list his personal attacks but im sure you did not notice
oh and who started with the personal attacks between me and you?
quote moreplayerz: it's waste of time to even speak with someone like he is lol you hypocrite does that not sound like a personal attack?

i asked where you are from because it gives me insight as to your expertise in this matter...i told you my ethicity and its only polite for you to do the same or piss off with your one sentence propaganda this is a discussion forum go slap open a dictionary and look up the words : discuss or debate ...

 

He attacked me personally?!? Where?!?

No, it doesn't sound like personal attack at all. Are you serious?!?

 

he attacked ME...not you...but this did not bother you of course...this makes you a hypocrite...

"with someone like you" this refers to ME and not my post...this is a personal attack...you said its a waste of time debating with somebody like me...this is an obvious personal attack implying that im not worthy of your time...its a direct personal attack...get it?

 

You use a lot of ... probably to give a weight to your posts... Seriously...
And what words I have put in your mouth?

Care to comment this? Are you communist?

 

...is just a style of writing...means nothing...truth be told its easy to misinterpret feelings over the internet just by reading text alone...

as for putting words in my mouth you said:
Ummm so according to you, a non-serb, a country which want to be independent is separatist country and has no legitimacy?

i never said separatist countries have no legitimacy...please go back and read...i said separatist countries support each others separatist actions to give legitimacy to each others separatist actions...wash each others hands so to speak...once a country is internationally recognized its obviously legit...my problem is with WAR over separatism...as for peaceful separation i have no problem at all this is every persons/nations right...

also no im not a communist lol

 

You have no clue what are you talking about.
And you are full of hate:

Care to share with us why do you hate those countires?

 

i never said separatist countries have no legitimacy??? this bold stuff is your point? what about the whole sentence????

do you understand english? there is a difference if a country acquires its independence though war or through a peaceful separation...this is what i was referring to...are their ACTIONS legit or not...once a country becomes independent and is recognized by the whole world its STATUS is legit how ever you look at it...notice the difference between ACTIONS and STATUS...

i dont hate small butt fuck countries...this is you putting words in my mouth again...where did i say i hate them?...they are small...and they are "butt fuck" as an exaggeration of the importance of their acceptance of your independence...come on palau? comoros? samoa? micronesia? LOL its obvious they dont know shit about kosovo or serbia LOL...you payed them to accept you LOL...

 

If someone have something theres no reason to give it to them. As I said, you have no clue what are you talking about. Now you claim that there's difference within those countries but than again you lumped them all together.

I payed someone to accept me?!? Where did you get that from?!?
I just wondering how do you address countries you DO hate (acorrding to your claims) if you address those "butt fuck" . It's called contempt.

 

i dont understand your first paragraph?

as for the second...palau has 20.000 citizens total...most of whom are simple fishermen/natives...how the fuck to they know about kosovo LOL

also i hate nobody...for example i refused to take arms against " kosovars" when the war started...i had to go to montenegro to avoid being drafted...i may not agree with your separatist politics but this is only politics...i dont really know anybody in kosovo so how could i hate you?...i have albanian friends...also croat and bosniak and serb and american...i hate nobody...discussion is just discussion...the only thing i kill is time...

 

Just to make it clear: how many time did you run away?!?

 

3x

2x during the wars in bosnia and coratia and 1x during the kosovo war...

 

So what gives you a right to say single word about Kosovo?
You fled your own country. You are traitor.

 

no you are just shit out of arguments...you never had any in the first place...separatists nationalists like you who MURDERED over politics calling peaceful people like me a traitor is just so funny LOL...you really have a bent perception of reality...YOU fled your country i stayed in mine: yugoslavia