United States Heading towards a Depression?

Interesting. I hadn't heard this conspiracy yet. Care to elaborate?

 

@DDDD, During the Suez Canal crisis, the USA held a big portion of Great Britain's war debt. President Eisenhower threatened to sell off or dump Britain's debt on the open market if Britain didn't back off. Since this would have devastated GB's economy, they had no choice but to back down.

Back to recent history, as I understand it China got a great deal of their oil from Iraq/Saddam and China's demands for more oil was escalating faster than anywhere else in the world. As Saddam was consolidating his power through the oil-for-food scam (that largest crime in history), the story is that Saddam was making increasingly hostile demands on China and threatened to withhold oil unless China supplied Saddam with a nuclear bomb. This sort of behavior is consistent with Saddam's need to make sure Iraq was never invaded again - and possession of a nuke would have guaranteed that Iraq would be invasion-proof.

Here, then, is the Big Question: If China secretly told President Bush II to invade and overthrow Saddam or China would suddenly and without warning sell off or dump all of USA's debt on the open market, ALL AT ONCE, how devastating would that have been to the US economy, really? What if China's leaders followed that up with public statements that they didn't believe the USA could make good on the debt? Would that have caused a mere recession in the USA, or would it have caused a complete economic inflation catastrophe, including prices of food and etc doubling overnight?

Keep in mind that Saddam gassed his own people, and China's leaders were responsible for the bloody Tienanmen Square massacre. So, these are the types of people we are dealing with here

There is no solid proof of this, but there is strong circumstantial evidence AND you have to admit it's consistent with the deviant behaviors of Saddam and China. And insiders in the Bush White House insist that Bush was frantic to go public with a big reason to overthrow Saddam. There was already plenty of reasons to overthrow Saddam, but no big reason to sell to the American public.

 

Yup and I'd say the "hopey changey thingy" is working out for us quite well too! Despite all the fear mongerers trying to convince you everything Obama does will literally change us into a Euro Socalist cess pool. The thing is... a lot of europeans have a far higher quality of life than we do here in America. Even the janitors and garbage men in Europe get a MINIMUM of five weeks of PAID vacation each and every year.

But I suppose every REAL American knows, working 50 to 60 hours a week, 50 weeks a year to make your boss richer at the expense of all else makes you healthy, wealthy, and strong. Also, giving multibillionaires tax cuts will make every man a millionaire. How's that "trickly downy" thing working out for you folks? It's only been in place since oh... the dawn of modern capitalism.

 

I am glad you said that. What is a real American ? If no one knows, I am glad to tell it
here. The word "American" literally means "home ruler". To the extent that a person rules his
or her own home, he is an "American". It is called "Freedom".


Those Europeans and now the so-called Americans have one law on paper, and another different law in
day-to-day living. They are taxed out of their skulls, so much that both the Dad and the Mom
have to work. Freedom ? If Jackson, Washington and a few others from the past were here to tell us that what is now is called "freedom" is "freedom", they would laugh. For us living now, it the opposite to watch, it is sad.

 

I would definitely disagree with that. Most Europeans definitely do NOT have a "far higher quality of life then we do here in America". Have you done business in Europe? I have. I worked for an American/European company for five years. I discovered during my travels to France, Italy, and Germany that in general Europeans pay one-third more for goods and get paid one-third less than in the USA.

Europeans tend to have a much richer appreciation of history than Americans do and also are much more educated when it comes to current events. But in many European countries there is an unofficial caste system that limits how far someone can advance, which unfortunately also limits their standard of living.

 

You apparently have never seen sanitation workers in NYC. If you had, you'd not have made any of these statements.

Have you ever been overseas? They live better? They are lucky if they have a garage, much less one automobile. Have you ever seen the average flat in the UK as a for instance? Dollar for dollar, here in the US, we have more, we spend more, we make more. Oh, and, yes - we do work more.

As for paid time off, keep in mind that it's all relative. If you want to live in a 2 room flat, no car, no garage and one TV - basically live well within your means, be frugal and conservative, you could manage a 3 month vacation here too.

 

Actually, I believe it is now spelled "Freedumb"

@GeorgeB/Corwin/Mia: You are all correct, in my opinion. Germans, for instance, have a 37 hour work week on average and take a month off every year(all the way down to the garbage collector). That "quality of life" as you call it, comes at the price of social mobility(as Corwin pointed out) and workforce productivity. The productivity in particular fuels the power of the nation as a whole, which is why the US remains so powerful and why China is growing so rapidly. At some point, China will start implementing more and more socialist economic policies(Funny that as a communist nation they slack in this area) to deal with the enormous portion of their population that is below the poverty line. Then you'll see their shooting star fall to earth, just like Japan's did.

 

I believe the USA is in a recession mode today, with the deflation of home prices and unemployment running very close to 10%.

We should be able to avoid a depression and the economic indicators, show a leveling off of the downed pine, which should mean we've reached the bottom area

So I think, that things will be looking up economy wise and it should be very evident by the first quarter of 2010


Best regards … Ron

 

We are already in the second quarter.

 

Got it. You all disagree with my quality of life statements and made fair points.

But no one touched the trickly downy thingy which when added to the first part completes my point. Presenting you with a full point of view to dispute and not just part of it. But again, fair points on the standard of living discussion assuming your facts are correct. Don't really have time to research them at the moment.

I suppose if we could all stop taking things to extremes in this country and assuming everyone has a hidden super agenda we might actually start getting somewhere. Regulating industry to keep them from rampantly and blatantly abusing the system can be done without going to the extreme point of imposing draconian government dominion over all commerce and stifling growth.

Both sides need to consider that and move forward with that in mind.

The only impossible part is pleasing everyone. And therein lies the problem because when people passionately oppose something they start making extreme arguments and using words like socialism when referring to Obama and crusades when referring to Bush and the 2 wars.

Even doing something common sense like looking at regulation that will help change the way things are done on Wall Street and cutting the fat, i.e. getting rid of niche industries that don't actually contribute anything but rake in the lions share of profits being middlemen. That's still something that would be met with arguments about how many jobs it would kill and how it's just a part of a huge socialist agenda... Even though it would obviously be better for the nation as a whole (which btw is the government's job) the people opposed to changing it will make extreme arguments against it and around and around we go.

Fiscal conservatism isn't a bad thing. In our day to day lives we call it being frugal and managing our money. But social progressiveness isn't a bad thing either. Everyone sitting on the castle they've built being fat and happy and opposing all change stifles our progress just as much as over regulation.

 

Fair enough.

Bush's and America's war is against Muslim extremists. Obama's policies are socialistic. Why not call a spade a spade? I think the word crusade has an extra attribute which is inapplicable, namely the spread of the christian faith, but I'm OK with the word regardless. I think you will find it difficult to find even a single aspect of the word socialism which does not apply to Obama's health care program.

You'll get no argument out of me on this. Reform on Wall Street has needed to be done for a long time. Reasonable regulation that doesn't cripple the economy through enforcement or compliance is welcome and needed. The irritating part is the politicization of it. Don't get me wrong, the timing is impeccable. Too impeccable. It is political theater at its best. Obama has the angry mobs beating at the gate, the party in power is looking to take a beating in November, so lets roll out the sacrificial lamb(even if that lamb has needed sacrificing for some time). Believe me, if Obama didn't feel the threat of such an overwhelming ass kicking coming to the Democratic party, he would not have thrown his friends from Goldman Sachs into the burning spot light of this congressional grilling. It is a giant distraction to take the angry mob's laser like focus on Washington's gluttony and the corporatism which his administration is definitely a part of. He's thinking he can dress Goldman Sachs in a fireproof suit and hold a public burning ( he wouldn't want them to suffer any real damage). If things really get bad, maybe he'll throw a trial attorney or two under the bus and add some tort reform into his health care bill.

Wouldn't it be great if he could wave a magic wand and make the public instantly forget about the multi trillion dollar increase in government spending he created through his new entitlement package? This in the middle of a down economy when the public's biggest concern was the size of government spending. That is what this Financial reform bill and the Goldman SEC complaint is about. A magic wand to make the public forget, and it might work. After watching him line up doctors and hand out lab coats, I have a hard time trusting anything the man does, even if it is something that needs doing like Wall Street reform. I suspect that whatever he comes up with will do more harm than good in the end. Bigger government.

Social progressiveness involves spending and growing government. Fiscal conservatism involves cutting spending and the size of government.The two are quite literally diametrically opposed. Social progressives think Fiscal Conservatism means not spending money you don't have, which it does, but their answer is to raise taxes. That isn't frugality, it's trying to earn more to pay for excessive spending. If you want to compare it to your day to day life, try giving yourself a 100% raise tomorrow because your wife spends all your money on shoes.

 

We're actually very close to a depression. We're still spending money. We're still borrowing money. We're still wasting money.

Only thing keeping us out of a depression?

Interest rates are still low.
We've not yet raised taxes.
Inflation is low.

But, we're gonna start taxing people more.
We're gonna start printing more money - raising inflation.
And rates WILL go up.

By all accounts, short of a recall election, impeachment or change of guard, we're pretty much fucked for a while yet.

 

Yes, but...

What do you do when you have a Congress that is run by Wall Street and special interests?

We see it in Obama, we see it in Scott Brown, we see in in all new Washington politicians - they go to DC full of optimism, and then you gradually see the fire go out in their eyes when they realize how corrupt the system is.

How do you get good laws passed and institute sound regulation on Wall Street when Wall Street has virtually unlimited bribe money? How many Senators and Congresshumans have secret bank accounts in the Cayman Islands?

Adam Smith said that the problem with a completely free market economy is that eventually all of the money will be gathered at the top, with little left for the middle- and lower-classes.

The first Republic, the Roman Republic, went along fine until the Senate became so corrupt that Julius Caesar had to size power to get anything done.

We have a health care bill that will make heath care insurers historic profits, we have a Wall Street bailout bill that has given Wall Street historic profits, and we have a Congress that is cannibalizing the middle class to benefit the super-rich.

And we have a young President who, like every previous young President, is going to start making decisions that will benefit himself for when he leaves office.

What do we do when we have a government whose personal self-interests contradict that of the middle class?

 

- DJIA 11,008.61 -158.71 April 30th

Well, for such a drop it at least ended above 11,000 Friday the end of April. Problem was though Wend. the Dow did close below 11,000 and just is unable to pull ahead. The strong upturn is taking a breather....fiddeling with a (mild) correction??? - just in time for a renewed upswing for the midterms.

That's a little closer to the European condition - as well as the Republican party after Govnr. Christ (Republican) became an independent leaving the GOP with the likes of Marco Rubio to hold onto the incumbent Republican seat in the Senate for Florida.

 

Now the economy of USA is growing very fast so it would not affect for long time.

 

It is? What planet are you on?

 

"sweetmonika" is just a stupid 1 sentence spammer with bad english and no brains...

 

Sounds like 99.9% of the people here.

 

My advice to everyone right now is to buy physical gold. No, not trying to fearmonger. But if things continue as they have been, then the chance of the USD crashing is high. And with the introduction of a new currency, it's best to look out for your own best interest and not follow the masses. Gold seems to be the only stable currency historically.

The real national debt is now at something like 33k per US citizen. And small businesses are hurt the most by the health care bill and taxation. Add carbon laws and you won't find many of them able to survive.

 

Looolll!!!

Monika's already on my ignore list but unfortunately that doesn't stop her posts from bringing up subscribed threads in my UserCP

Complained here: http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showthread.php?t=1792718