Hey Fellow writers and members, Hope you guys have already read this thread already but I am writing this down just to let you know people that the person whom I am referring here is a scammer (100% sure). His user name is bcwsites http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showt...light=bcwsites I worked with him in the month of August and he took around 200 articles and he owed me $400, however he paid after 4 months, since he was relocating to India and excuses he said. I understood his problem, so I was okay with that. Again, in Jan 2010, he offered some articles which were worth $525, now after 3 months he is not paying me, but he is saying I will pay tomorrow, however his tomorrow never came. He is completely cheating now I realized. Nowadays, he is not even picking my call. I am confused as what to do. I owe so many bills, so I am almost crying everyday because of credit card and other bills. I know its partially my mistake that I haven't taken any upfront before doing the work, still I trusted DP clients blindly and this is what I got for that simple mistake. I have his phone number(0-9908860057) and he is from Hyderabad. His email address is . He is logging in here every day but deliberately doing this. I would be glad if anyone tries to do something in this regard. Please let me know your suggestions through my email address
Oh yeah, I didnt update it. He promised tp pay me full amount on April 2nd. After begging for 1000 times, he made two deposit of 5000 INR. He said I will deposit another 10k tomorrow on 15th and today is 25th, still no clue. Not picking my calls, just sending crap message like I will call you, Call you later, I am at office, I am in meeting and so on. He is a big lier and scammer on the Internet. Being an Indian, it is shameful to see such a kind of person in our country. This guy is totally nonsense and I also got several PMs regarding this guy as he is cheating other members in other forums. Now I know he will come here and post crappy messages. I know how to answer...lets see...
Irrespective of the problems you are having, you should not be publishing personal details such as his telephone number or email address. That is wrong no matter how much you feel he has conned you.
I am very sorry for your misfortune, but as ronbrown said it is not right on your part to put his phone number here. That makes you as bad as him.
Aside from the part that he took 4 months to pay originally, and then you did business again - publishing his personal information is a no-no. You know the saying though 'once bitten twice shy' ... you should have learned after the first experience.
You people saying not to post his personal info are amateurs. Scammers and deadbeats need to be outed entirely so that their info can be found in searches. Ideally his home address would have also been posted, but apparently he didn't have that. That there are little repercussions in someone having only their username posted since they can get a new username easily. Having more info posted on the other hand is a bit more difficult to cover up.
You don't have a clue. If you really think it is OK to post someones personal details such as email address and telephone number, and then suggest his home address should have been posted too, then you really should consult an attorney on the consequences of doing that. We are only hearing one side of the story here. There is no proof that what the OP says is true and it does seems a little dodgy that given their previous experience they did more work, of higher value, without asking for some payment up front. To say that there are "little repercussions" is not true. Doing this to someone who then suffered as a result of that would leave you open to all sorts of problems and a lawsuit you are unlikely to win. Since the other party is in India this is unlikely to happen but it's better to learn caution as quickly as possible before the person doing this thinks it can be done with impunity then learns that doing that is a costly mistake. Do I think nothing should be said if someone has a genuine grievance? Not at all, but there is another side to the story we haven't heard. I have no problems with someone mentioning company names, but personal details that leave the person open to abuse is not on.
God isn't going to do much here im afraid (or anywhere else for that matter). What you need is the rule of law, see if you can get local authorities on your side. Also live and let learn. Now be more cautious when you spend/buy. Buddy take care it happens to everyone and it's important you get out of it.
if the scammer is using that email address or phone number to scam more people and by writing that info here it will make it harder for him to do so , so i dont see the problem Name And Shame !
You are the one who needs to get the clue. I have been a full time webmaster since the mid-90's, and I have never once heard of a shady character suing someone just because they had their personal info posted. This type of outing goes on all the time. You just don't see much of it here at DP since there is a high population of entry level webmasters here and thus the transaction amounts are usually fairly small. When you start running with the big doggies and see scams into the thousands and tens of thousands you will understand the importance of the total outing method. I said there were little repercussions to outing someone by their username only since they can just get a new username and continue scamming. There are people who do this for years. Scam, ban, new name, scam, ban, new name, etc... It's no secret that DP itself has people like this in the buy & sell section. As for posting accurate info on the shady individual and the harm it may cause, good luck getting a court sympathize with them.
The big difference between us is that you completely believe what the OP is saying while I'm aware that there are always two sides to a story. I've seen many people come onto forums with an even more convincing story, but when the person they complain about put their side of it, it put a new complexion on the whole thing. The internet is full of computer warriors and vigilantes who see it as their duty to stand up for the little guy, and posting personal details while calling someone a crook without any real proof could lead to potential damage to that person - I'm glad that you agree that there are repercussions of doing so. It's true that a court may have no sympathy if the individual is shady and was damaged by accurate information, but that's the point of my posting. There is no proof that the information the OP provided is accurate or even complete. Just because he says it is so, doesn't mean it is. I'm aware scammers exist - I don't deny that - but I don't think enough information has been provided for another party to make that judgement, and in these circumstances they are leaving themselves open to action by publishing personal details of someone they claim has scammed them. At the end of the day it is only an opinion. It's not about who has the biggest cahonas, who runs with the big doggies, or whose been around the longest. I do a lot of work with consumer groups, with much of that work dealing with court action and strategy. I see a lot of cases being brought where the legal status of a claim is dubious (at best) but the fear that puts into the defendant is very real. I've seen many cases won by default, on flimsy evidence, or lack of hard legal facts, because the defendant didn't think they had anything to defend because they were "in the right". The concept of "total outing" may be appealling, and it may work in circumstances where the person being outed IS shady and the information provided is completely accurate, but to suggest that calling someone shady without any real proof is a competent or risk-free strategy in all circumstances is woefully misleading. When there isn't enough evidence available, or you know there must be more to the story (as a couple of other posters have hinted at), then caution is advised - caution is advised in ALL circumstances if the person being "outed" has large pockets and is vindictive. I've seen the outcome of court cases where the defendant has been ruined financially, or been forced to sell their homes to pay for their defence, and being made to suffer for years as the result of court action taken by another party on the most dubious "evidence". I'd hate to see it happen to someone else because of a temporary lapse of judgement. My original posting to remove the details wasn't directly out of sympathy for the person being named, but as a warning to be cautious.
Let's go back to your original quote: You are clearly stating that nobody under any circumstances should have their info posted and that is what I responded to. If you get taken for $xx, $xxx, $x,xxx or even $xx,xxx and just want to forget about it, that is up to you. Some people like to put the word out. Which again, according to your original quote is something that you said was wrong no matter how bad the con job.
Erm. That's your interpretation and I've clarified that in further posts for those who didn't understand the context and warning that you refer you. And given what is still known - which is only the OPs original posts - I would say the same thing again. You're carrying on as if nothing further has been said, progress has not been made, no further explanation has been provided, and previous repostes replied to. You're going over old ground again when things have moved forward. So, we can agree to disagree. You have your opinion and I have mine. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. Carry on with your support of "outing" if that's your preference and if you think it's an appropriate way for people to behave given the flimsy evidence and one-side-of-the-story available here. The forum is for people to provide opinions. No-one is forcing anyone else to take the advice or take any notice of the opinions being expressed. Your experience of supposed conmen being outed in this manner, and the consequences of that, may have resulted in a positive outcome, while my experience regarding inappropriate behaviour and being involved as part of a team (often as a very minor part of the team) providing advice and strategy regarding civil court actions shows a darker side with far less favourable outcomes for the inexperienced, the unwary, and the unprepared. I've seen set asides, withdrawl at the last minute, wins, losses, County Court Judgements, wages garnishment, statuory demands, bankruptcy orders, trashed credit ratings, charging orders being made on peoples homes, sale orders on homes, families broken up as the result of court action and the financial costs of defending or taking action, months of sleepless nights, illness (sometime critical), and all sorts of human tragedy that are the direct result of civil court action being taken either as the pursuer or defendant. Bullish behaviour like "outing" may make people feel good, where everyone can have a good jibe about someone based on the flimsiest evidence without any rebuttal or defence, but there are consequences and downsides. I've seen the very worse of the consequences when people act without thinking or believing what they are doing will come back to haunt them. It's got nothing to do with the amount of money involved because court action isn't determined by the amount owed and only the person who believes they are owed the money, or who feels they have been harmed by the malicious actions or as a consequence of the actions of another, can determine what it is worth to them. I don't really care all that much about your support of outing. I gave my opinion to the OP and I still stand by that opinion. I only hope that when you next feel aggrieved you have the sense to determine whether the best outcome would be achieved by being cautious or by "outing", and if you choose "outing" I pray - for your sake - that it really was the best choice.
So in summary, your recommended mindset is something like "This guy just took me for $500, and I can't even out him because he might sue me!" It comes down to an individual's level of risk tolerance. Some people have none at all and will quietly cry in the corner to themselves when they get worked over. On the other end of the spectrum are the loose cannons who cry foul over even a hint of wrongdoing. Somewhere in the middle is the guy who got conned and posts accurate info about the incident to warn others.
Not at all. I don't know where I've said that. You seem to be so willing to find fault with my opinion that you're now making things up. If we look at it from your perspective, where you seem to support outing as a default behaviour and a good thing to do. As I've explained that isn't a wise thing to do is all circumstances and people who do that are taking a risk, particularly if what they say isn't the whole story, the whole truth, and there is another view that isn't being taken into account. I've said all this before and it hardly needs to be said again. That's what I've been saying all along. The problem is, when people feel aggrieved they rarely analyze the risk. They say things without thinking through the consequences. The only provide their own highly emotive opinion which can lack important details and not provide a "fair" view of what really happened. It is only one persons opinion that is given at a time when they feel they have been badly wronged. It's bound to be a biased perspective. When you are feeling like that, it is not a good time to be posting details and information which could have potential consequences much worse for them than the wrong they feel has been done to them so far. Going back to the original post, providing these personal details was not wise. Would you be willing to call the person who supposedly defrauded him a crook based on what has been said? You have the sense to realize there is more to this, and another side to the story, and that it would be unwise to be willing to be judge, jury, and executioner based only on what is known. That is the cirumstances the initial postings were about. I know. It's exactly what I've been saying. If the information is accurate and complete the risk is reduced - but there is still a risk. If the information is incomplete, inaccurate, and doesn't provide the whole picture, then it is a dumb thing to do. So, it seems that we agree after all. The "loose cannons" as you describe them will always be a danger to themselves and will post information and details that - in the circumstances - aren't the best or wisest thing to do. The guy who posts accurate and complete information, and who has hopefully taken a more thoughtful approach where he's assessed the potential risk is doing so, is less likely to find themselves on the receiving end of a court summons. We're not so far apart. My default opinion is to be cautious and to be aware of the potential fallout from what you are doing. "Outing" should not be a default behaviour in all circumstances when you feel angry about someone elses behaviour. From what you're saying you seem to agree with that. At other times outing may be less of a risk (although a real danger does exist - you can't get away from that), but the more accurate and unbiased the information is that is being provided, the smaller that risk becomes. I don't want to go back over old ground, but I've seem the unintended consequences of things being said or done without proper counsel or thought, and I've seen the very worse things that can happen as a result of that. I wouldn't want anyone to think that this method of outing, no matter how accurate the information is, is a 100% guaranteed risk-free strategy, and I want to be clear that in circumstances where the information isn't accurate such behaviour is foolhardy. Since we're both now on the same page, it might be time to go back to the original post. Was it wise to provide these personal details based on what was said? My opinion is that is wasn't and that they should be removed. It was wrong to do it. I couldn't, hand on heart, be willing to make a judgement of whether the person they dealt with conned them or not because I think there are some important details missing and other questions to be answered before you could reach that conclusion. Given that, no matter how badly the OP felt he had been wronged, providing these personal details was not the wisest thing to do. You may disagree with my conclusion, as is your right. It doesn't make my opinion stated in the first post, or subsequent posts, any less valid. We have a difference of opinion. If we battled with everyone who didn't agree with us we'd never get anything done.
sorry for your misfortune there. but personal info shouldn't be posted here. And what if he pays tomorrow, can you delete erase the damage done to that accused scammer?