Scary but true... Islamic demographics in Europe!

I'm not sure who I find scarier. Awinjsclarke posting videos of Muslim Victory in a thread discussing Muslims trying to bring Sharia to the west, or Vazon encouraging Europeans not to forget their barbarian roots so they can deal with "the problem". AtvKing is probably thinking we can round them all up and execute them(when he isn't drooling on himself), though he now seems to be confused into thinking Muslims are a race of people.

That goes for you too Blogmaster. We aren't dealing with a problem of "Mexicanization". A long long time ago when I was raised in coastal California, half of the students in my primary education classes were Mexican. The Mexicans were here (in California) before we were. The problem you see today is one of immigration, and it isn't just Mexicans. Every Central American immigrant comes up via the border with Mexico, so we tend to refer to them all as Mexicans.

You probably all know Arizona just passed a law authorizing the state and local police to enforce Immigration laws (verify citizenship), which means a good number of the 400,000 of Arizona's illegal aliens will be fleeing the state, or being rounded up and sent out of the country. I believe it is a Felony arrest if they re-enter illegally, which means they will be entering our prison system the second time they are caught. I'm personally a fan of this legislation, even though the idea of asking for a person's papers based on a racial profile seems a bit Gestapoesque. During WWII we rounded up all the Japanese and stuck them in concentration camps while we fought the war. While that obviously had it's civil rights issues, and may have been a bit extreme, it probably also averted problems without murdering people en-masse like AtvKing's friends did. I'd like to think that if Muslim Americans became a noisy lot, pushing for Jihad within the U.S., the noisiest amongst them would find that there are still open cells in Gitmo. So far, generally speaking, it doesn't appear to be a problem at all. even though 40% of them think the US government perpetrated 9-11.

From what I've seen, Australia has been the most outspoken on the subject, but you will find Americans are very much of the same mind. We are very open to having Muslims of any country, or people of any country for that matter, immigrate and integrate. Those who are unable to integrate in regard to at least a few basic principals, meet with resistance both from the Government and the remainder of the population at large(almost all of whom are immigrants).

 

i dont condone any sort of violence...your mind is just too weak to understand anything i write...but rounding up people is more your cup of tea...read below:

oh and who is preaching about rounding up people? (i know your brain is very very slow but try to understand anyway i bolded it out for you above LOL) also whats up with "illegal aliens"?!? aliens like ET? illegal? oh i get it! its one of the famous US euphemisms like "insurgent" or "collateral damage" where you dehumanize HUMAN BEINGS and somehow try to justify murder/bombs/rounding up...but WAIT you said above and i quote "The Mexicans were here (in California) before we were." LOL

what makes you a "legal alien"? the fact that you ancestors ethnically cleansed 6 million native americans and plain stole their land? now that mexicans want to do the same its, somehow, illegal even though your ancestors did EXACTLY the same? (minus the ethnic cleansing and slavery and theft)

you can not imagine how amusing you are to me...you redefine the word: hypocrite (and moron LOL)

 

Nothing wrong with rounding up/deporting illegal immigrants.

 

deporting them back would mean starvation for most...there are simply no jobs for them in their country...they are "illegal" simply because of imaginary boarders set by a handful of people in your government...

i beg to differ with your statement...true that there is nothing "legally wrong" with deporting...but morally i dont agree...they are human beings and they want a job...its just heartless and inhumane...

 

Since you are a refugee, your views on this matter are biased. If people have no jobs in their countries than that doesn't mean that US (or any other country) should open up their gates for them and let them flood in and bring down the economy.

 

@ atvking: Consider that you spend a fortune to by a big enough house after years of hardwork had nice interior done, but suddenly lots of poor homeless people come in and start living there. They eat food from your fridge. Now would you call the police to get them out or keep them there, feed them and live with them which'll be the "humane thing to do"?

 

They feed their families in Europe & America..provide them jobs and services..live in the most beautiful lands they could imagine..yet they terrorise them and try to kill them in their own countries. People must realize this IS a plan by Arab leaders.. Al gaddafi had the courage to say it in public... THIS is a plan and I'm saying this based on facts!

Watch what this idiot is saying carefully.. trying to embrace a religion on the world and making excuses.

[video=youtube;LNUqLztI4mQ]http://www.youtube.com/v/LNUqLztI4mQ[/video]

 

i cant only tell you what i did i took on a whole family of refugees from bosnia they lived for free in my house for about 5 years...they ate from my fridge because human beings have a weakness for food and shelter...then they eventually got jobs and rented their own space and moved out...im not religious and i dont believe in karma...overall it was a rewarding experience for me...meant more to me than materialistic bullshit...to be fair i am not poor i make money so im not exactly mother teresa either

fact: there aint no 500.000 jobs to be had in mexico ...these human beings risked their lives to cross the "boarder" and probably are in debt because they did so...im not claiming all 500.000 will die if deported but some will...some will be forced in to crime (one has to eat) some in to prostitution and some will not be able to continue feeding their families...not that their life is peaches and roses in the USA...

"they took our job" (as in south park) is what it boils down to...if you cant get a job its not really the poor immigrants fault is it?..."the law" aside can you morally justify it?...and in your example above they dont really move in to your house unless you let them...

 

AtvKing: I need $1000 to make rent so my kids don't get thrown out into the cold this month. I'll send you my paypal address so you can send it to me, ok? In fact, don't worry about the $1000, just send me one dollar. I am going to publish your name on several charity websites so you can donate that same dollar to everyone else who also needs it(there are hundreds of millions). If you refuse even one, I'm going to blame you for the children who go to bed hungry because of your greed. What type of greedy humanity hating bastard won't even spare a dollar for the betterment of his fellow man.

In case you didn't know, we(the US) accept millions of immigrants legally every year.

 

ill donate 1000$ to UNICEF, and prove it, if you do the same...if not explain what giving away money has to do with rounding people up and deporting them? they are not begging for money they are looking for work...two very different things...

and you take on millions of immigrants to exploit as cheap labor once you bomb/war their countries to the stone age or impoverish their region with your bullshit sanctions and foreign policy and IMF/world bank bullshit...THANKS

 

Can always count on you for a stupid answer. I'll give educating you another shot. Outside of jobs, there is are administrative cost in having a population. Police, fire, HEALTH CARE, and a variety of other costs. The taxes collected from each person are supposed to offset those costs but they don't(I'm sure you've heard of our budget deficit). More than 50% of our population pays no income tax whatsoever based on their income level, though they will now enjoy yet another entitlement the Federal government has seen fit to bestow on them.

When we add people by means of immigration, those costs go up. When those immigrants are poor and uneducated, they weigh heavily on the cost side while adding very little to the tax base. It is one of the main reasons so many immigrants have a hard time getting a legal permit to enter the US. There are BILLIONS of poor people who would like to come on down and get one of the many high paying jobs that don't exist for anyone right now, and certainly not for the uneducated. Unfortunately, if you fill your life boat with more people than it can hold (financially), the boat sinks. If people would fix their own governments, they wouldn't need to immigrate to the US for a job, or call us for help when they are being slaughtered by their own country men. Unfortunately, the world is chalk full of people who run away from their problems, instead of making the sacrifice to make the situation in their own country better. Some of them even have the balls to blame the US when the problems of their own making don't magically go away on their own. It's kind of a sick mix of jealousy and stupidity.

I digress. Please forward me and the other 2 billion people on this planet the dollar we so badly need. As I said earlier, failing to deliver on that will make you the most selfish person on the planet(and a hypocrite).

 

so your country is becoming broke because of the poor immigrants you exploit as cheap labor that clean your pools and pick your cotton who employs your "aliens"??? oh right=americans

i cant believe you wrote police,fire and healthcare as reasons...what a riot LOL...ill dismiss the police and fire sillyness (LOL) and just focus on your health care...you have free health care in the USA? (answer this LOL) ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States

so you treat them for free?? oh wait thats just another bullshit argument...im so surprised (yawn)

oh and i guess NONE of the guilt lies in your big rich corporations who outsource everything to 3rd world countries because the consumer society, you so adamantly promote, wants stupid materialistic products at cheap prices so YOU (as a nation) are no longer willing to pay americans to do the job?

oh and none of the guilt lies in your terrorist bomb dropping/ economic sanctions/ IMF / world bank ect ect impoverishment of countries your immigrants come from? just look at what the banks/government did to your own citizens LOL ...can you imagine what they do to others??...want to place some blame? look right at your capitalist masters LOL

pssst ill give you a tip: spend less on your terrorist bomb dropping mass murder campaigns it will save you a buck or two

pssst ill give you another little tip: if you call other people stupid it does not give credibility to your already silly posts + youre not exactly the sharpest pencil in the box are you?

 

AtvKing Says: "Lets ignore everything you put to print, focus on the US health care system I know nothing about, and try and pretend there is no cost to government based on the size of the population."

For the record, I referred to your posts as stupid. Do you understand the difference? Lets take your post above, for instance. It is a bit of one off post for you since you actually mixed a link into your random and nonsensical allegations. As is typical of the few other posts you provided links in, you used nothing from the link to back up your argument. Its like saying all American soldiers are mercenaries, and then providing a link to the wiki page on the US military. One might also say the earth is flat and provide the wiki link about the planet earth.

To have a coherent argument, you need to be able to back your claims with facts and have a basic knowledge of the meanings of words in the language in which you are making your argument. For instance, you seem to have trouble with the words Mercenary and Armed Combatant. By the definition you and you alone use, every soldier in every army on the planet is a mercenary because he receives a paycheck. I refuse to believe you are so loosely grounded in reality to actually believe such nonsense, so I have to believe it is just your lack of knowledge of the English language. I obviously have a lot of spare time on my hands and am happy to educate you on the basics of politics and religion, but I'm afraid I can't help you with the language issue. We have adult free education courses here in the US for those who failed to get a primary education in their youth. Do you have anything like that in Serbia, or did they slaughter all the teachers?

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/05/earlyshow/health/main5064981.shtml
A 2001 study in five states found that medical debt contributed to 62% of all personal bankruptcies.
my english apparently sucks so please explain "personal bankruptcies " and how this could be


http://www.monthlyreview.org/0903navarro.htm
More broadly, the total number of people in the United States, whether insured or uninsured, who die because of lack of medical care was estimated in a 1997 analysis to be nearly 100,000 per year three times the number of people who died of AIDs.


https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2102rank.html
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html
The USA's life expectancy is ranked 50th in the world after the European Union (40th)and just after Chile (35th) and Cuba (37th). for christs sake Cuba has better health care LOL

so what exactly are you talking about? how does your government pay and for what? shit cuba beats you LOL i mean a country crippled DECADES of your bullshit economic sanctions has longer life expectancy and thats according to the CIA

oh and in my shithole serbia you just participate with like 3-4 euros you get free treatment for anything except plastic surgery for cosmetic reasons...so what exactly are you chode-ing on about?

 

Terrific AtvKing! Now you are both providing links and citing quotes from them! A definite step for the positive. Lets go over some of the next steps you will have to get past to put together a logical and cohesive argument.

First, in application to this particular instance, you will need to make sure the claim you are making would legitimately argue against my position. To it, I made the statement that there are government administrative costs associated with the size of your population, one of which was health care. Your argument in this case, is that the US government does not provide free healthcare, and therefore, there are no costs associated with a growing population. This, of course, disregards all the other government costs(fire, police, primary education, etc) and focuses only on health care, which is practically an admission that you have no argument against these other costs. Generally, when forming your argument, it is bad form to admit defeat from the outset, but lets set that aside for the sake of a teachable moment.

If we were only talking about healthcare costs in the US, your claim that the US does not provide free healthcare would be a legitimate counter argument. The next step would be to make sure the data you provided was both factual and backed your claim. In this case, your links told us three things:

1) Medical debt causes some of our population to go bankrupt
2) People die in the US from lack of medical care even when they are insured
3) Cuba supposedly has better medical care than the US

As you can see, none of these points actually back your claim. For your edification, the US has a formal program called Medicaid which helps to offset health care costs for the poor. California, and many other states, augment this program with programs of their own(California's program is called Medi-Cal). These programs do not verify legal residency status for the most part. On top of these programs, our hospitals do not turn away anyone in need of care, regardless of their residency status. This is called free health care, but only for the poor and illegal. It is why you see so many people who have money declaring bankruptcy from medical bills. Health care is not free for them.

I digress once again. Try presenting your argument again but this time:

1) Address the original point I made
2) Make an argument that argues effectively against the entire point
3) Provide links, and the applicable quotes from those links
4) Make sure those quotes contain factual data
5) Make sure the data is applicable and backs your claim.

Sorry to dump so much on you at once. If you have any problems, I'll break it up into smaller chunks for you.

 

This seems slighlty predjudice. I am not religious, but I think that a politician should be judged on his political ability, not his faith.

Ether way, european countries will never again be subjected to the oppression they faced under a monarchical leadership of the middle ages. Eve if Muslims leaded them.

 

sounds to me like the US gov and your "medicaid" is ripping you off and you ,and your government, are trying to blame poor illegal immigrants for it LOL...

oh and what happens to an illegal who gets your medical care? deportation LOL

you mentioned fire? are they all arsonists or are you grasping at straws here?

education? you exploit the shit out of your cheap labor and you whine about a little primary education for their children? true heartless slave masters LOL...shame on you...how about the greenbacks you save from using their slave labor?

police? ok you have a point...your decadent drug user population really likes to snort but its somehow the immigrants fault...they are all drug dealers LOL

how does any of this justify rounding up 500.000 people and deporting them to die in mexico? reminds me of milosevic who wanted to deport a million "illegal albanians" who had no "legal residence" (not defending milosevic im ATTACKING your argument...get it?) ...its called being a heartless bastard who gets a false sense of security from preying on the weak...

so if you deport all the "illegals" are americans going to take their places in sweat shops? or is your government and corporations just going to outsource this to china? so who is going to "pick your cotton"? LOL

 

OK, lets see how you did.

1) Address the original point I made - FAIL
2) Make an argument that argues effectively against the entire point - FAIL
My claim was the cost of government goes up with population. You respond by assigning the straw man that Medicaid is ripping me off, or how those who don't want to pick up the education costs are heartless slave drivers. Obviously none of this has anything to do with the cost of government going up with the size of the population. Remember, if you acknowledge your opponent's point, even if you plan to use it in an attempt to attack their character, you are still admitting defeat. Also, as an aside, attacking someone's character is a great and time honored technique, but once again there are certain guidelines you need to follow(worthy of a whole different thread probably). I won't go into it in detail, but rest assured, verifiable facts, even if somewhat tangential to the argument, are once again the basis for a good character attack.

3) Provide links, and the applicable quotes from those links FAIL
4) Make sure those quotes contain factual data FAIL
5) Make sure the data is applicable and backs your claim. FAIL
OK, clearly your reply has no links, or quotes from those links. For that matter,it didn't even claim to have facts for the most part. If you are going to pick this up, you need to move beyond the grade school name calling and generalizations. I'll admit they worked well in the second grade school yard, but calling someone poopy pants as an adult is not only ineffective, but leaves people wondering about your mental state.

Give it another try. Help me to help you.

[Edit] As a side point, you exceeded the acceptable number of LOLs per post by four. It came across as nervous laughter. Very disturbing.

 

I can't believe that people from Western Europe and US do not see the problem. How long you will ignore it? How long you should pretend that you are tolerant? Are you indeed such blind that you can't
see what is happening in your neighborhood, in your own street?

These Muslim immigrants do not want to become part of Western civilization. They do not want to respect your laws. They want to take as much they can from you, and once they become enough powerful they will kill you all. You have to deal with the problem before it becomes too big. Open your eyes and protect yourself!

 

I agree with that