but i beg to differ its very very amusing... you see getting an american to admit the wrongdoing of his armies "war efforts" is like getting a radical islamist to admit that theres anything wrong with their terror campaigns...one simply cant help but be amused heres another: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War or do you only accept non biased estimates made by the US army and politicians? (note the heavy sarcasm) now before you use the "insurgent" and "collateral damage" insult to human life let me just point out that you force these people in to war flying over half the globe to other peoples land and by bombing the shit out of their countries and invading with thousands upon thousands of mercenaries all because of your BS politics and paranoia...YES their deaths count too maybe not to some paranoid trigger happy mercenary supporter but it counts nevertheless...you see the "insurgent" gets a choice: be killed by the local army for not wanting to fight or be killed by you for not wanting to be killed by the local army (i know a BIT more about this than you do) i love the US double standard...if i was to come to your country with bombs and guns its terrorism...but when you do this on a mass scale to other regions over BS reasons its, somehow, not terrorism but is something to be proud of and deserves support and whats wrong with having a sense of humor about it? its better than being a heartless fanatic with his head in the sand standing in front of a US flag lol...
Only to you. Your wiki link still does not substantiate your statement. Had there been some evidence to substantiate your statement, you would have put it in quotes, within your post. I don't think there is a person alive who does not believe war has casualties. Well, I will admit that comparing American war efforts to a radical Islamist targeting and killing civilians is an absurdly amusing comparison. Is that the point you were trying to make? Individuals make mistakes. I would guess the helicopter pilot in the wikileaks video was mortified when he found he had killed two kids. He'll have to live with that, and may die from it (some end up taking their own lives). One thing I will guarantee you. He didn't see the kids in that vehicle before pulling the trigger. It was difficult to make them out in stop action replay. Yes it is a double standard. Just like when the police roll into your house with guns, that is all well, good, and legal, but when you roll into some random persons house with guns you are a criminal. Grow up. I think I finally found the humor in your post. It is you saying you know what you are talking about when you cant provide even a single link to back the false and inflammatory statements made in your first post. Was that the humor? Lets be honest. You aren't going to provide evidence because it doesn't exist. Furthermore, if it did exist, you wouldn't present it. You wont even present the statistics that DO exist showing how many civilian deaths were caused by sectarian violence in Iraq vs how many were caused by Allied combat forces. That makes you a troll and I'm now amused so lets continue the conversation on a topic that actually could have merit. You seem to have an issue with the U.S. using mercenaries. Taking the BS claims of murder targeting innocent civilians out of the picture, what do you care if we pay our soldiers or we draft them? On a personal note, what do you think of our ex-president Clinton? My guess is that you were a Milosevic supporter and are pissed off at the outcome. The organized killing of women and children your cup o' tea? It wouldn't surprise me.
wiki conservative estimate of casualties of US war efforts in iraq: 100.000dead wiki high estimate of casualties of US war efforts in iraq : 1.000.000+ dead washington post estimate 150.000 on this link http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/09/AR2008010902793.html its not the deaths that are amusing its your flat out denial of any responsibility for an EASY 100.000 dead and this is a very very conservative estimate... you also target and kill civilians only you dont call them civilians you call them "insurgents" and "collateral damage" ...what is absurdly amusing is that you make it sound like these poor people actually had a choice whether they want to fight the #1 mercenary army in the world or not... nice try but you fly mercenaries over half the globe over bullshit excuses and BOMB and OPEN FIRE on people who have no choice but to fight back...i know a lot about not having a choice but to fight you see when the US exports violence to your region the local army does a force draft this means: if you dont fight you get a bullet in the head...you can surrender to police but you dont know what will happen to you or your family in a war if you dont fight...you have no idea what im talking about do you...good for you... the humor is in your selective blindness to obvious facts about your war efforts...how many people has alquaida killed? i bet its under 100.000 right? i bet its waaaaaaay under 100.000... ive been to iraq many times before the US war efforts...nice try with the "secterian violence" crap...it was not the war zone it is today and those 100.000 people would be alive had the US gov. not exported its violence to iraq over BS "foreign policy"...i put it to you that with enough weapons and bombs i can turn your city in to a war zone too...i could make you fight for my bullshit cause as well ...go ahead and deny it lol... well if your army consisted of volunteers this would show that they fight for something they believe in...otherwise they are just mercenaries...all other armies you fight do it for free...and my claims are not BS you turn civilians in to soldiers or "insurgents" they have no choice and you know it...no BS at all here... you mean honest honest bill clinton? ...as for the personal note im not serb...when your governemnt supported separatists in my former country i got a choice: fight or a bullet in the head...i was lucky and managed to flee to bosnia and had to do it again when yet more support was given to muslim separatists in my country from good old bill clinton...so i fled to serbia...im not supporting milosevic i think as much of him as i do about bill clinton but at least i did not have to fight...call me a pussy but i value human life more than the politics of milosevic/clinton/separatists and all other war mongers...
You are just full of contradiction aren't you. Who needs me to argue against you when you argue against yourself. In case nobody told you, the US Army is 100% volunteer. That applies to the paid soldiers who volunteer for that service as well. At least you had the decency to explain your f*cked up thinking. According to you, armed combatants in Iraq and Afghanistan qualify as innocent civilians so, by that logic, the US military's war campaign is no different than Al Queda. Coming from your culture, I might even be able to understand how you would think that way. I've got news for you. The whole world is not like Serbia. And yes, for you to sit on the sidelines while your beloved Milosovich killed women and children based on their race DOES make you a pussy. Don't worry. Some of my countrymen volunteered to put their lives on the line so you didn't have to. It doesn't make you a criminal, but you get to live with what you are. Its probably why you are so bitter.
where do i contradict my self? a volunteer does shit for free right? right? does the US mercenary get payed? YES! so how does this make him a volunteer? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volunteering you need to learn what volunteer means first...i agree that the US mercenary has the free choice of getting a normal job and that nobody puts a gun to his head to become a mercenary...unlike the "insurgents" that have to fight FOR FREE or get shot once the US exports its war machine on somebody elses territory... no there is a BIG difference between the US mercenary army and alquaida...your bombs and bullets are much better and kill much more civilians...you are much more proficient at spreading death and destruction...also you have better marketing... i dont kill people over politics...sorry to disappoint you..."my beloved milosevic"? oh i get it youre shit out of arguments and youre trying to paint me as a milosevic supporter + you ignore the 100.000s of dead in iraq and youre trying to turn this "serbs are all evil" US propaganda bullshit against a NON SERB ...how about addressing the 100.000-s your mercenaries killed in iraq? no? i understand why you ignore this lol... all muslims=terrorists all serba=evil rapist ethnic cleansers all US war efforts= honest goodwill peace efforts learn what volunteer means you ignoramus LOL...and there was no widespread violence in yugoslavia before the US gov. gave support to nationalists-separatists in my country but you know better than me dont you go get a clue... how about adressing the 100.000-s of dead people in iraq thing? no? i know why lol...dont worry i understand...
Terrific. Lets argue the definition of volunteer. By your definition, if you are paid to do it, you don't believe in the cause. This means the hundreds of thousand of soldiers employed by the US government don't believe in the cause or they would do it for free. Let me ask you a question. How much could I pay you to eat human sh*t on a daily basis? USD $100k?USD $200k? You still have to volunteer, don't you. Since you are a bit thick, let me explain to you the obvious contradiction in your two posts. In one example you claim the US army is NOT volunteer because they are paid. In your next example, you imply the opposition IS volunteer, though you claim they have to fight or be shot by their own people. Are you as challenged by simple logic as you claim to be? Now you are providing the humor. Here is something you may find of interest. Did you know you can drink your own urine? I've heard you can recycle your own urine as many as 8 times before it becomes truly toxic to you. There have been stories of people put adrift on life rafts in the middle of the ocean who immediately begin drinking their own urine because they have no idea how long it will be before they are rescued, and starting early might mean the difference between death from dehydration and surviving long enough to be rescued. You sound like the type of guy who might refer to Urine as a soft drink, or Coca-Cola as human waste, just because they both can be used to hydrate the human body. There are other MAJOR distinguishing factors. Get a clue. You've made that apparent. Don't feel too bad. There have been many people throughout history that have made such excuses for their cowardice as millions of people were slaughtered by their leaders. You aren't the first. "Beloved" or not, you ran away by your own admission. And no, the war crimes trial for that asshole was not a US event. There is nothing to address. You think enemy combatants in a military conflict are all innocent civilians. You sir, are a loon. By that logic, doctors hack healthy organs out of millions of people annually. All of the people jailed by police worldwide are innocent. If you can't come to grips with the basic premise that it takes two sides to have an armed conflict, you are so far beyond reason it is a waste of time to talk to you. I can understand you may just be punishing yourself for your own cowardice and this is how it manifests itself. Consider me a friend just trying help you work through your issues. I won't even send you a bill for the therapy(A Volunteer!)
ok your mind is weak ill try to explain it real slow quote wiki: "Volunteering is the practice of people working on behalf of others or a particular cause without payment for their time and services. " hint: note the bold and underlined parts...now take a few hours to think about this maybe you will understand no you just have the attention span of a chimp...i said "well IF your army consisted of volunteers " take note of the bold underlined italic word *IF* ...now stop thinking about eating excrement and check what i wrote...can you see it now? dont worry ill give you time...now please tell me: where do i contradict myself? actually thats quite a good example...referring to urine as a soft drink is exactly what you are guilty of...youre not as thick as you look... well when separatist nationalists come and ask me to go fight and kill people who have done absolutely nothing to me i dont do it because i have more balls than you do...LOL you are actually trying to make it sound like i did something wrong...yes i ran away 2x...i dont hate anybody and i dont see any courage in taking arms and shooting at people or bombing them...call me crazy look nobody wants to fight the US mercenary army nor do they want your mercenaries on their land...trust me on this one ...if you think this you are just plain out of arguments or insane...but when the US mercenary army invades you have to fight...what is it about this that you dont get? or do you pretend not to get it just because it does not suit your empty arguments? you dont understand that in 3rd world shit holes freedom of choice is something we dont have...if an armed group of separatists came to your house what would you do? tell them "no thanks ill fight for the USA side!" RIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGHHHT now heres the part that you dont seem to want to get: when you force a country to fight then you make normal people in to "insurgents" GET IT? chew on a banana and use what little grey matter you have between your ears to envision yourself outside of the security of your US and put yourself in my place or some iraqis or afghanis place...think about your family and your options in this situation...now think about how much balls it takes to actually run away...dont hurt your brain do the thinking in small steps break it down bit by bit...do you get it now?
The difference between volunteer and conscripts (EG National Service) is that National Service conscription is obligatory and volunteers choose to sign up and get paid as a job of work or career choice or whatever you want to call it. Volunteers are not forced into service by conscription is the difference.
RD, I don't think you should use facts with him. He clearly gets agitated when reality conflicts with his preferred view of the world. Notice his (LOL) count per post has gone from 5 per sentence down to 0 per post, while the bold and underscored text content has skyrocketed. I guess it hasn't occurred to him that a lie spoken loudly has no more merit than one that is whispered. While I now find his posts more entertaining than he does, I'm concerned that his obvious frustration in his inability to convince others of his contrived reality may cause him to kick his dog or beat his wife(or boyfriend). Personally, I've never understood the kind of person that would run away while his wife gets gang raped, or his children are murdered. I guess some people truly believe there is no just reason to take the life of another human being, but I just can't comprehend it.
Me neither sometimes you have to do what it takes and if that means defensive homicide - well what can you do, if that is option presented to you. There are garden tools and kitchen utensils that can be utlilised if like me you are unlucky enough to live in a crackpot like the UK where there have been cases of people going to prison for standing up for theirselves on their property against those with bad intent. It's a land gone so called politically correctly crazy. This statement > "Volunteering is the practice of people working on behalf of others or a particular cause without payment for their time and services. " Just goes to show how flawed the info on Wikipedia is in regards to full definitions... Especially in this case. They should have a context citation there on Wiki imho.
where did i say i left my wife/children behind? oh right i didnt thats just you doing what a US demagogue does best: flat out make silly shit up so that you dont have to address the 100.000s of murdered "insurgents" and "collateral damage" or any other points that i make...
I didn't. You left your countrymen (and women and children) behind to be ethnically cleansed. I personally don't see a big difference. People like you are nearly as accountable for those actions as the people committing them. Personally, I loathe the necessity for the US government to send troops to country's like yours. It is an unnecessary risk of American lives and a monumental waste of our(MY) money, regardless of what our interests in the region might be. If less people ran, like you did, and stood up against that kind of insanity, the need and/or excuse for the involvement of troops from the US and other countries overseas would be eliminated. What makes you exceptional is that you actually protest the efforts that stabilized the region and brought an end to the genocide. It is enough to make me scratch my head and wonder if you weren't on the run from that region for some other reason, like involvement in those very activities. Milosovich supporters were concentrated in Belgrade, so it is not beyond the pale. I also want to thank you for adding a bit more humor, by using the word "demagogue". Classifying all casualties of the US military in Iraq as murdered civilians is the height of demagoguery, which makes you a hypocrite (I've pointed this out for several posts now, but I wanted to make sure you got the point). Here is a simple yes or no question for you. Are you Muslim?
you stabilized my region? what an unreal statement...your country gave support to separatists/nationalists in my country AND THEN the violence started...the UNITED States of America supporting separatists is the accolade of all hypocrisy arent you all about being UNITED and multi ethnic? the insanity you talk about came AFTER your country and the UN gave support to separatists...nobody knew what would happen...NOBODY...so one day a buch of separatists/nationalists come knocking on my door and im supposed to go fight against people who have done NOTHING to me??? are you serious? i mean really??? i have nothing against any croat/muslim/serb/bosniak/albanian what are you talking about???? Im Yugoslavian my countrymen (croats/bosniaks/serbs/muslims/slovenians/macedonians/albanians) lived in PEACE...my country does not exist any more...the genocide you talk about came only after your country and the UN gave support to their political little puppets..."the sun will shine 3x harder and money will fall from the sky if you all separate" lets turn the tables put yourself in my shoes...a buch of armed separatists come knocking on your door what is the "brave" thing to do? go killing for them? LOL...would you for example go to war against the people in YOUR neighbouring city just because somebody else says so OR DO YOU ACTUALLY NEED A GOOD REASON? ...remember that you cant mention bullshit demagogue reasons like genocide because at that time there was none... how much balls does it take to join a group of armed men and go fight against the minority? NONE...this is what i was asked to do go fight against the serbs and muslims!...i had relatives in bosnia so i fled there but the war came there too...im in serbia only because mainland serbia was not involved directly in the war and nobody came asking me to fight your little bullshit war... you are a demagogue just like the separatists in my former country...pretending like there was actually something to fight for! what a load of bullshit!!!...youre a demagogue because 100.000-s of people would be alive in my country AND in iraq if your noble noble army did not invade left and right with your "holier than though" bullshit excuses for murder and bombing (you call this terrorism when somebody does it to YOU) many demagogues accuse me of being worse than the devil for not wanting to fight its what demagogues do LOL it gives them the false impression of blood being washed from their blood soaked hands...it does not matter to them that their war mongering politics resulted in the deaths of 100.000-s of civilians...no its the peaceful guys fault LOOOL! and the war mongers are SO brave (heavy sarcasm) and no im not muslim...not that this has anything to do with the 100.000-s of dead civilians in iraq and the FACT that your army and politicians kill more civilians world wide than all terrorists combined...
So now the Serbo-Croat conflict is somehow the fault of the US? In your mind, is there anything the US is not responsible for? Jesus Christ man, did we kill off the Jews in Nazi Germany too? How about the millions of dead Chinese at the hands of the Japanese, did the US do that too? Did the US somehow also sponsor Stalin's gulags? As I said before, given that you ran, I can see why you feel the need to blame others. That is the message you took from my post? That you should have joined the cleansing? Are you reading impaired? Let me used borrowed and somewhat famous words so there is no confusion. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing" It would be interesting to know in exactly what way those words apply to you.
where there is smoke one should not pour gasoline...one should either keep the fuck out or do something peaceful to actually lessen the tension...giving support to separatists and then pretending that action=no reaction is just naive... 100.000-s of dead civilians is the result... go ahead and pretend that your war monger government bears no guilt LOL its very amusing to me... your jew/nazi , jap/china , stalin/gulag examples are just weak attempts of steering the conversation from your role in iraq and yugoslavia with unrelated BS... your "famous words" its something US demagogues like to use to ,somehow, wash the blood of their hands...triumph of evil LOL... only a c-o-w-a-r-d joins a well armed group of men and goes on killing sprees...it takes no balls at all...then the cowards return home and brag and boast about their brave brave war efforts (ultra heavy sarcasm) in hopes of somehow suppressing their guilt and lemming like nature...the truth is they could not find a better job or do anything better in their life than become a brainless gun-for-hire-puppet...
You Sir are strangely confusing considering the history of the region of the World you hail from. In your mind it seems it is all so simple. Do you realise how many people you just insulted with such a sweeping statement? Did the US commit the 9/11 atrocity? No! We're Islamic extremist militants convicted in the UK for a simlilar planned attack in 2006? Yes I find your anti American stance somewhat confusing tbh. I know a little about the history of the region you hail from though and the tit for tat between Muslims and non Muslims has been going on for hundreds of years so I detect perhaps that the US and coalition forces acted against Serbian genocide against Muslims may have some bearing? Serbs have fought both their Christian and Muslim neighbors at different times over the centuries so it is not difficult to see how any intervention in regards to a genocide given the history may be seen as an unfair intervention. Considering all the factors your statement about service people is extremely insulting what with what we face in this present day modern World.
You win. I'm convinced. I know you haven't provided any evidence, but you don't need to. Everyone knows the American military men are a bunch of cowards just itching to get shipped overseas for years at a time, away from their friends and family, for crappy pay and the potential to die in the line of service, or become a paraplegic. Just having an opportunity to kill innocent civilians makes it all worthwhile. We here back at the homestead cheer them on, hoping we can add women and children to the the casualty list. It is really people like you who bring peace to the world. If only everyone would run away at the first sign of conflict! If only the whole world could just hold hands and sing cumbayah in harmony. People like Milosovich and Hitler would have promptly stopped slaughtering innocent women and children on their own had the world not intervened. I mean, just look at how much restraint the people of Rwanda showed during the same time frame for lack of intervention. The real bad people in the world are those who support the bloodthirsty, war mongering, US military. The rest are just innocent civilians waiting to be slaughtered. With that line of BS, you should get a job as a politician, except most people wont elect a coward. Good day.
i really dont need to provide any "evidence"...who has the bigger murder machine alquaida or the US army? it does not take a genius to figure out who does more killing in the name of BULLSHIT politics...you have 100.000s of armed mercenaries on other peoples land...what dont you get? you whine about 9/11 yet this is just a drop in the ocean considering the 10.000s of BOMBS you unload on civilians all over the world...3K dead in 9/11 is just nothing compared to the 100.000-s of dead people your "war efforts" produce...im not trying to be a dick about 9/11 im just pointing out your blatant disregard for any non US citizens...9/11 was plain murder of civilians why is it so hard for you to admit the same about your MASS BOMBING campaigns? sorry if calling organized bombing / murder campaigns by their real name insults some mercenaries to be fair alquaida can rot in hell too...but this is no way cleans the blood of your armies hands... want to hear an insult? "insurgent" and "collateral damage"...you really cant insult anybody more even if you tried... as for the "serbian genocide" the truth is the first victim of any war...victors get to write their own account of history...not trying to paint a black and white picture but it seems that you are...all serbs= genocidal maniacs AND all US supported nationalists/separatista= good guys RIIIIIIIGHHHT spot the trend now all muslims are terrorists before that all communists were evil can you spot the trend? sure you can LOL people are lemmings they identify with their group and allow themselves almost anything...
Of course not. At least you admit you won't let facts get in the way of idiocy. Its like arguing with a chimp.
what "facts"? oh i forgot you didnt post any did you? you just go on to sidetrack with talk of drinking urine and eating excrement... any links i post go on "auto-disqualify" because it does not suit you to address the 100.000-s of dead (conservative estimate) google "civilian death toll in iraq" gives: http://www.unknownnews.net/casualties.html claims 889.000 dead in iraq AND afghanistan http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Family_Health_Survey claims 104.000-223.000 in iraq alone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_Iraq_War_casualties 600.000 in iraq with 78.000 just from airstrike (god damn iraqi jets eh?) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORB_survey_of_Iraq_War_casualties 1.000.000 dead (one million) http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/iraq 1.360.000 in iraq (one million threhundred and sixty thousand) http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/19/iraq 150.000 dead http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7967-2004Oct28.html 100.000 http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LDE6371KB.htm 100.000 http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1702230,00.html 100.000-250.000 http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2008/pr02/en/index.html 150.000 *world health organization* geaorge bush estimate 30.000 but at least he has a sense of humor and named it "operation iraqi freedom" he freed a minimum of 100.000 iraqi civilians from their lives! oh did you ever find them WMD?