And cost nearly double what I can build a comparable speed PC. Turns out I don't need support. Macs are clearly more expensive for an individual. So they cost less to support and more up front. What is the net gain? But the real issue is once again what software you need to run and your applications. If you are an online marketer you'll find a big gap in the Mac World. If you want to play mp3's, make home movies, and chat it up with friends or hit your facebook page, or do some online shopping... then Yippee MAC. Same old issues that have been around since inception. I own both. I use the PC much much more.
With NO support, NO guarantees everything will work together, NO guarantees of interoperability. Does Dell or MIcrosoft guarantee that? No. Apple does. No fear of failure. Could you be any more vague? iow, if you want to do what most people use a computer for....
They're not clearly more expensive for an individual, at all. Like for like, nope, they ain't. Yes, I can go out and but $25 worth of cheap 2nd rate components (that I'd actually pay $200 for, but that's another story) and put together a 2nd rate, underpowered computer that'll break down in under 12 months. But if you want to compare like components, then sorry, I don't see the difference. Don't need support? OK, so when that cheap motherboards breaks after 3 months, or the networking ports, or whatever, then you'll just get another one. And spend another 100, 200 bucks. Then again, there are some people who'd find that the perfect occasion to get ... support. And maybe even an in-warranty repair. But with a $200 DIY, you wouldn't be getting that, now would you ... Money. The point is that the up-front cost difference, if there is to be one, is more than compensated by the heavier support costs. Funny, I've had like a zillion careers, and used a Mac since 1984. Never once have I been confronted with the absence of software to do whatever I needed. Maybe that's just me though ... I installed Windows Vista on a dual-boot partition on my Mac for work (I was doing MS training, funnily enough ...). I haven't touched it since I left that job, and have truly not regretted that (nor missed it) for a second. Queue flaming ... 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... now.
apple has played the game well. they know what supplies to go to that they trust and get a good price for them. Yes they use relatively "good" quality parts and they are revolutionary for the computer industry. on the other hand, macs do cost more than PC's period. Although you may find a higher percentage of PC repaired or have failures vs. a mac especially when it comes to laptops. I think Apple is among the most reliable for laptops. Then, it is a matter of what features you have "integrated" with a PC vs. a Mac. that is another price point people do not think about. PC's lack a lot of built in junk on some products. Mac includes stuff that you otherwise would not expect not to mention the availability of premium materials used in their computers (mainly laptops) and new iMac.
i would say macs are alot more expensive to support. a new logic board for a mac costs around £500 you could buy a brand new pc for that price
Yeah but if that new PC is dropped on someone's foot, the lawsuit alone could buy someone a whole house! That's why PCs are much more expensive. (And other examples of poor logic.)
I can second this. Macs are way easier and I feel like they don't get virus's as much. But support is so much cheeper then dell.. Everything you do for dell you need to buy something.
Macs sell for more after your done with them; they retain their value. They are sexy! And they never get slow like windows does after a few months. I also find the 8 hour battery pretty sweet.
These are opinions, apparently no actual factual cost surveys have been conducted. System configuration costs?! HA! You can barely do system configuration or hardware changes, let alone getting the damn thing opened in the first place! That's a BAD thing! Apple has 0 guarantees of interoperability. All and any of this has everything to do with who, how, and when a software (not apple as a company) was designed. When a computer is assembled by myself, instead of no guarantees of everything working together, I would say that I'm more confident that my computer will work -- I built it -- I should know. As for support, all companies do what they should do. Some people blame their computers for faulty software. Some people call Dell screaming "Microsoft Office doesn't work!" when it has nothing to do with the electronic functionality of the hardware Dell is responsible for. If Dell sells you faulty hardware, they will refund/replace it for you. If Microsoft gives you a faulty disc, they (the store) will refund/replace it for you. If Apple sell you faulty hardware, they will refund/replace it for you. All companies score equally in this area. Funny, I've never once needed support for my computer. Explain any problem you've had and short of a completely understandable and chanced manufacturing fault, I'm sure the whole forum will be laughing at your own computer illiteracy and lack of ability to do just about anything. You lazy whiny babies are always screaming things are someone else's fault. Mac or PC, I couldn't possibly give a damn. Can you prove this value retention? Unless I've sold my Mac a week after purchase (given it's useless, I'm sure I would), then any theories of value decrease/increase should be explainable through other causes, involving the market, not Mac as a company. P.S. I find most PC's pretty damn sexy. Mac's are bland white -- it's getting pretty goddamn depressing and out of style this century. Rounded corners too? What is this? A toy for 4 year olds? Well -- that's the mental capacity of most of its users anyways.
I couldn't agree more with Curtis Hunter, to every last bit with rounded corners (I actually said the same thing before, seeing as they reviewed Mac notebooks as "Stylish and smooth", mentioning nothing about price and performance). The only problem I ever had with my 6 years old PC was power supply failure after 4 years. I bought a new one for 25$ and it's still working. I also upgraded it with many components, such as DVB card, RAM, new graphics card, monitor etc. I own machines on both GNU/Linux, for better understanding and control of every last bit of hardware, and Windows, because of its powerful DirectX. Both are upgradeable and components get cheaper with every passed month. What could Mac provide me with?
I think this means it's time to bow out of this "discussion". You go Curtis! Tell 'em like it is! Sheesh.
The fact that you said that shows you didn't read the study. The fact that you said that shows you know nothing about Macs. Again, you show you know nothing about Macs yet you try and spread your opinion based on what? Buy some hardware at Best Buy, plug it into your PC and, if it doesn't work, who do you call? Does Microsoft promise you it will work? Does Dell? Buy some Apple hardware and plug it into a Mac and what are the odds it won't work? Zero. Yet people complain constantly about driver mismatches when they plug something in and it doesn't work. These things don't happen on a Mac. This is old news. I remember in the 90s people paying more for used Macs. Still true today. Again, you show you've never owned a Mac. I question that you've ever even seen a Mac close up. I'll repeat what I said earlier. I've never owned a Mac. I used them in the 1980s when I worked at Silicon Graphics and I used them at a networking company but, other than the freelancers I hire, I never use one for anything but borrowing one to test a site on. I've built computers from scratch, the chip level, from 35 years ago, so you can't prove anything to me about building computers. One thing I do know. At both my son's universities, everyone in their classes have a Mac. My boys are the only ones who don't. Guess what they both want as their next laptop?
You are trying to compare one machine, yours, to millions of corporate machines. This is an example of a "straw man argument". You're also trying to compare purchasing price of new components to maintenance cost of older machines. Not the same thing.
I'm sorry if I offended any Mac user, that wasn't my intention. I worked on a Mac, kinda bugged me at first how "Control" is replaced by "Command" button in shortcuts, along with similar minor differences to other OS's, but it is pretty good for a development machine. And as with Windows, it DOES get slower over time, but on both OS's it CAN be prevented by proper care. Also, about security - Windows 7 is even more secure than most GNU/Linux distributions, but since Windows dominates the market (about 92% if I'm not mistaken, google "os market share") people don't even look for security holes on Macs, let alone Linux, with its 1% market share, that is also developed by the same people that look for those holes. I do understand why Mac is so popular, I'd recommend it to everyone who doesn't have specified requirements for a machine or isn't too much into IT. Still, next problem arises and is best shown in my attachment.
Not true. You are mistaken if you think adding programs to a Unix system is the same as on a Windows system. A mistaken assumption on your part that Unix works the same as Windows and, therefore, would be as vulnerable as Windows is. I can make up numbers like you did, too, but almost the same specs on the Apple site are half what you show. Once again, your trying to compare new purchase price against the topic of this thread and that's after purchase maintenance. But you are also under the mistaken assumption that a Mac computer needs the same processing power as a Windows system, which it does not.
I never actually said that. More processes/services + fragmented HDD/RAM = slower machine, goes for every OS. Thing is, on Windows XP your RAM will remain fragmented unless you reboot it or use some third-party application to defragment it (never actually found another way). Similar thing is with HDD defragmentation, but that OS is now 7 years old. I never said that either, if it doesn't work the same it doesn't mean it is more secure, it just takes different approach. But that is just way out of this topic and I wouldn't want it to go more. This went far into a Mac vs Windows thread. I compared a Mac to a PC, not Windows powered PC. That either reflected your knowledge on PC/Mac components or you're just being ignorant. Go to http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MB535LL/A?mco=MTM3NDc3NjI and check it out for yourself or open my attachment. I understand this is kinda out of topic, but if you're giving away $5k+ more for a $2k same spec PC that is definitely to be taken into consideration, and if you're spending more than $5k on your PC support, you are doing something terribly wrong.
Again you are equating how Windows works to how Unix works and ever the twain shall meet. Fragmentation, for example, is far, far different than what Windows does. We don't 'defrag' our drives like you do on Windows and fragmentation is far less, too. and Unix is more secure because of its different approach. I didn't go that far into the store and only looked at the offering on the first page for two processors, etc., and it came out to $3200 or so. Don't know if that scales from a $1200 Mac vs a $700 PC. Now the gap is $500 over the lifetime of the computer. What is the time/material when you plug in some hardware/software and tech support has to come down and make it work on a PC vs no such time on an Apple?
My mistake about fragmentation, seems I wasn't well informed on that, Unix systems do have better OS architecture which takes care of that, but that is as far as it goes with Mac vs Windows, PC =/= Windows and they do run Unix OS's. However, when it comes to security, I think Apple should widen their "virus" definition when they present Mac OS X as "virus-free". Few days ago I bumped into this blog post, entitled "Apple plugs 88 Mac OS X security holes". Interesting trivia, on Macintosh Security site they mentioned that this new Mac OS X release "...includes over a dozen security fixes", how modest of them. One more quote from the blog post that should be noted: With "...and Unix is more secure because of its different approach." you are just quoting Apple's customer service. You seem oblivious to the hard facts. Such security holes are at least as bad as Windows security holes and Mac shouldn't go pandering about being a Unix system giving disinformed users a fake feeling of safety. One more point for the advertising campaigns. Well, we've come to the conclusion that Mac desktop machines are 180-500% the price of a same spec PC (highest-end PC is ~$5k, same spec Mac Pro is ~$27k) so it may be some personal taste beside that "support" that they provide (probably why some use the term "Mac fanboys"). PC manual assembly is relatively simple and costs $50 at most and softwares like Driver Genius (for Windows) make driver installation as simple as clicking a button, and cost $5-30, depending on the number of licences. Again, you can skip that if you are IT literal. Component manufacturers give you 3-10 year warranty. Also, on your linked blog post it was quoted that they "surveyed IT admins", not individual users, which may have seemed from your quote "For those who think Macs are too expensive to own". Well, take away PC components assembly and driver installation and I will ask it again - what else is there to support? And is it really worth that $500-20.000 difference in price? EDIT: seems like that survey was made by "EDA - Making it easy to deploy, integrate and manage Macs in a Windows environment" (from their About page). One more thing to be skeptical about.