I understood what you feel about that part, what I do not understand, is why do you argue with robots? if you truly think they are robots?
Yeah, I m sure oil is not my favorite beverage, and tightening my screws is not an exercise for me, your usage of that metaphor is incorrect, it would be correct if all said the same, and not discussed.
Dear Imad I appreciate your post but, can you please tell me a single religion now a days which allows drinking wine, In Christianity and Hinduism there is hijb for women. Jizya is just for protection, and non Muslims have all their rights to offer their religious activities but they could not break Islamic rules. You know that wine is the major cause of many other sins, after drinking wine so many have raped their own sisters and mothers. it is the one major reason of road accidents in west. USA is at the top position for robbery and rapes. statistics show that in 1998 total rapes in USA was over ninety three thousands. Thousands girls are raped every day in USA. Islamic rules are not for Muslims, they are for all humankind. In these rules there are all rights for non Muslims. Even if a non Muslim state implement Islamic rules will find the immediate results. Islam is very simple to Practice.
@Sultan: To compare rape statistics, the Islamic country in question would first have to prosecute rapists and record the statistics. I can refer you to the recent Dubai rape by a Muslim man of a foreign woman as evidence Muslim countries do not prosecute rape. When these countries come out of the dark ages and begin to prosecute crimes against women, then perhaps we can compare statistics. Until then, perhaps you should save the anti-western propaganda, which most educated people can easily dispute, for the Mosque/Madrassa.
this is not an anti-western propaganda, I just told the truth. why are you comparing while there is not a single 100% Islamic State. Even Saudia who implement most Islamic rules have lowest rape rate. you can see yourself that rape ratio in USA is Increasing. In USA Islam is the fastest growing religion and majority of reverted Muslims are women. I am not against USA . Even in my country the crime rate is increasing. So please don't mind. but accept what is truth
No state, and no person, can be a disgrace to Islam, because Islam is perfect, the states that are considered Islamic, can be a disgrace to themselves, by how much they follow or not follow Islamic laws, and how do they implement them. It was possible to form an Islamic state from so many 100% non-Islamic states, so yea, it is very possible to form an Islamic state from a state that partly follows Islamic laws. You are most welcome, thank you too for showing me your intellectual level, so I can consider it when I answer you below: you do not pay Jizya in return of allowing you to have sex with the chickens in your farm, you will still be punished if you been caught doing so in an Islamic state, whether you were rich or poor, Muslim or non-Muslim. for other intellectual levels, it is incorrect to say: "anyone paying Jizyah can do whatever they like" first, it is not "anyone" it is non-Muslims living in an Islamic state, second it is not "whatever they like" else murder will be allowed to non-Muslims and prohibited on Muslims in an Islamic state, they are allowed to practice their beliefs, as long as it does not make injustice to people of other beliefs, or to the environment and world around them.
Never think about what Christian do and what their leaders believe. Just consider Bible as the guide for Christianity. Many Muslims Scholars are taking Quránic verses and hadiths in wrong meaning. That is why there are so many groups. If any Muslim Country allow wine, its not mean that wine as allowed in Islam. If a Christian leader believing wrong, will not prove that this is christianity . Many Muslim scholars like Ahmed Dedat have proven to all christian leaders that Jesus (pbuh) never claim dignity. Jesus (pbuh) himself said in Bible that he is a Muslim. It has been proven not with Qurán but there own Bible. But they have blocked wisdom.
According to Islam, what was the rule broken by mankind for Gods intervention and if not revealed what is it if you are preparing a perfect state that you have solved as commanded by the Almighty, as your finding for that purpose as a religion different than the others for remittance?
No Sultan, I don't have "a wisdom" Also, please answer my questions - don't just babble. Answer them. They were very clear
As atheist I don't believe in Bible, Koran or even God, so which rules should I follow? As atheist I don't have any problem with drinking Alcohol or have consensual sex with anyone I like. In your ideal Islamic state, am I free to live as I want or should I follow Islamic rules even when I don't believe in God or Mohammad?
In their ideal state you'd believe what they believe which, as they can't even agree amongst themselves, would be difficult. Perhaps it would be easier to consult their "what muslims should think" website, only they don't seem to agree on that either. Basically the rule seems to be "make your own mind up, then claim god agrees".
not so much. I did not mix anything. I applied most trivial logical considerations. And I was not mistaken. Here is your problem! When I say the "West", although literally means 'the west', I do not mean anything geographical. I mean something cultural. A set of values. There can be a "west" also in Arabia, theoretically. When I say: "west", I mean: A democratic country with values such as equality, liberty, freedom. An "Islamic state" is, by definition, not a place where these values are cherished. Hence there can be no "Islamic state in the West". And my simple logical consideration from above, although too hard for you (but not for most of us) to understand, still holds. Well unlike the anti-semite narrative that Israel determines whats going on in the US, in reality it is the US that determines whats going on in Israel. Israel licks american ass for over 30 years already and we are damn proud of it.
I think you believe that you have two eyes, two legs and two hands. It is as simple for me to prove you that Qurán is the Word of God and Allah is the only one God and Muhammad (Peace be upon him) is his last Messenger. I have given an answer to same question to Alexispetrov,
Sultan, you are a delight! Welcome to the forum! Lets go over some of your recent posts. As evidence, you provide a link to a random website of some group claiming to be Christian. If you were truly a student of religion, you would know Christianity has more sects than Ahmadinijad has Uranium Enrichment Centerfuges, and that is a lot! Sure there are a few fringe Christian groups that have adopted that belief, but on the whole, Christians drink. Yes, some Quaker and Mennonite women still wear a head covering. Pretty much every other mainstream Christian sect in America has not had such a practice in more than half a century. Actually, you started the comparison with this quote "USA is at the top position for robbery and rapes". I simply pointed out that if you want to make that comparison, cultures that claim to be adherents to Islam would first have to prosecute people who commit rape, and then keep truthful statistics about it. Asking a state who's laws are set by mullah's to come clean about the criminal acts of it's citizens is like asking the Catholic church to come clean about how many of it's priests are pedophiles. You would need an independent law, police, and judiciary to get meaningful information. If "Islamic" states ever reported the real number of acts of sexual aggression carried out against women, camels, sheep, and various farm animals, I'm sure they would stand head and shoulders above the competition on almost every scale. Of course the Muslim's are going to have to kill a lot of people to get them to follow those rules, considering most of us don't agree with them. You have a source for that claim, besides what you were told by your cleric? Here is some factual information that might surprise you: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_prac2.htm That's right. Witchcraft is the fastest growing organized religion in the US. Of course these survey's didn't count atheists and agnostics who are not part of any religious organization. That information can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States#No_religion I suspect recent acts of Muslim violence have done wonders to fuel the ranks of those who are not only agnostic, but are now vehemently opposed to organized religion. StOx thanks you. LoL. That is amazing, since the Muslim religion was not founded until centuries after his death! By getting their education at a church... Well, its not anti-western propaganda, but it certainly isn't truth. Most of it is just factually incorrect. I think you need to find a new source for "truth". Your "truth" is lacking in truthiness. @New: I see you are not going to come out and explain how it is that Saudi Arabia licks the ass of the US and thereby violates Islamic law. Don't think I'm going to stop asking. @Imad: So if Jizya exempts you from some aspects of Islamic law and not others, who determines what parts of Islamic law are exempt and which are not? You say drinking of wine is OK, what about homosexuality? What about orgies? What if your the non-muslim's religion requires that he/she spread his religion? None of these things, including sex with a chicken, would cause injustice to anyone else. What if I am a Muslim living in a Muslim state who desires to be a non-Muslim. How does that work? And yet practicing Muslims chew Khat and smoke Hashish like it is going out of style. Silly, no? Regarding your praise for Saudi Arabia, apparently New doesn't seem to like them. Perhaps it is just the violent penalties for minor crimes that you like, but lack of hatred for America you dislike? No surprise there.
I don't get your answer. What has the number of my eyes, legs and hands got to do with anything? I don't believe in God and I think Mohammad was only an influential leader about 1500 years ago. Are you saying that I have to believe in God and follow Islamic rules because I have 2 eyes, 2 legs and 2 hands?
I know I'm here, but god is no where to be found, have you found him, seen him, touch him, smell him, is he a HE? I bet you my life you had never seen,feel,hear,smell this make belief creatures you call god. Friend, I think you need a surfing lesson and get away from those books you been reading 'cause it has done you harm. Come back to Earth and join us, will play some Poker, visit a strip joint to see some naked chicks and downing some shots of Duckfarts. Wake up to reality!
Tell me one thing, you believe that if you can't see, touch or smell anytihing, it means that, that thing does not exsist? Tell me is it your believe?
How else am I going to be convince, certainly not you saying it exist. I need visual confirmation, a sense of smell, a touch, hearing if "he" had spoken. What part of god's "existence" that made you believe he is real? You believe he is real because you were raise in a place where everyone must believe that he exist. You were force at a young age, your peers, family, neighbors and strangers had convince you that such "thing" is around you. At a young age in school you study the "holly" book and had to memorize the context of the book which later in life you will past on to another suckers like yourself. You see my friend, all of that you've read is not suppose to be taken seriously, you are here on Earth to live and make the best of what you have to offer. I feel bad for people like you because you live in a make believe system, you're spending your life in a lie for told by some nut-heads before you. Since you are out spreading what you think about what you know/believe to others, I want to in return to tell you to get away from that and to let you know and someone like you to enjoy and discover life as it is, it's beautiful without god. Being non-religious doesn't mean were bad, actually it is the opposite of what they have told you, we actually have more morals without any book telling us what not to do or what to do, we call it, COMMON SENSE.