No Love For Saudi Arabia On Valentines Day

Imad. Page 63 of the book is indeed exactly like this:

with the important sentences in bold, and not the unimportant words that you bolded......... (lol)

But Anyway:
The book does not speak of the "widely circulated Jewish document described Islam as an act of God's Mercy" that you posted, and because of which the whole discussion began.
http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=13399473&postcount=23

You gave this book as "the place where the document is mentioned", clearly lying, as usual, there is no such document mentioned anywhere in the book by goitein.

So, Imad, where is the "widely circulated Jewish document described Islam as an act of God's Mercy"?
How come I read so many books and never heard of it?

p.s. thanks for the tip, the book is really good and accurate. sometimes when you randomly google stuff to prove your delusions you get lucky and find good things. Too bad that in most cases...its junk....

as they say in Hebrew:
אם תעקור הרבה עשבים שוטים, בסוף יצא לך גזר
If you will uproot all the grass you can find, one time you will surely find a carrot.

 

Here is the quote again Chaos:

It is funny that you quoted almost all the excerpts in that link I gave you, except the above paragraph.

This quote you made, also exists in the link I gave you:

The Actual and Legal Position of the Jews under Arabic Islam
S.D. Goitein

Excerpted from: S.D. Goitein. “Jews and Arabs: Their contact through the Ages.”
N.Y.: Schocken Books, 1964

you only proved that you read the excerpts on that site, and not actually the book, and you did not bring anything new to that discussion, since all the quotes you made already been put there, through that link.

try to quote page 91 for example, or page 77, or page 201, the book is 264 pages, if you can quote the above page, I m sure you can quote more which is not on this website

http://www.cijr.com/Israzine/Israzine_V2N21_ActualandLegal.htm

 

we got a googler

 

Yup. Sorry. Its in the book. On page 63, right after the paragraphs I quoted. I missed it.

But what the hell is this document? This is what interests me.
I know that everything you need to know is that "jews described Islam as an act of god's mercy", you are an Arab (= need to know only what serves your delusions and bigotry), but me, as an Israeli ( = intellectual, looking for real knowledge, all of it and not filtered and selected one), I also want to know:

• who wrote it?
• who was addressed?
• when was it exactly written?
• WHAT WAS WRITTEN THERE EXACTLY?
• What is the context?
• Why did he write it? what was his motivation?
• How widespread was it?

"jews describing Islam as an act of god's mercy" sounds peculiar to me. Jews think that Islam is an idiotic intolerant and violent religion. And Muslims think that Judaism is a bizarre cult or freaks.

The book gives no reference to from where it learned about the document. This is very disappointing. I really wanted to learn.

I'm afraid that no such document really exists, if it appears only in this book and nowhere else, and no reference or explanation is given as of the whereabouts of the document.

Unfortunately Goitein is dead so I can't mail him to ask him....

Imad, How many times will I have to tell you that I never lie (see attachment), I might be just sometimes wrong, rarely I hope.

To conclude the conversation:

Chap 5 says: Jews were treated well in Syria, Palestine, Spain (with many examples), and discriminated, abused and occasionally slaughtered in Arabia (with many examples).

Regarding the document, this is really bizarre, because the book is not bad. So I will make further research to see if such a document exists, I'll let you know if I find it. At the moment, "widely disseminated Jewish document" mentioned only in 1 book (without explanations or reference) is not enough to qualify to "a real document" under any academic standards. I know that you don't know what "academic standards" mean, but u'll have to trust me.

I will keep looking for it.
Is there anything else you would like to add?

 

Ok, I m glad you admitted it, your apology is not accepted of course and you know why.

I think you did not actually read the book, if you think that the document does not exist, it does not mean, it does not exist, Goitein is dead that true, but the work that he spent most of his life doing it, is still there in his books, and researches, you can refer to it, he is your fellow.

 

Imad. In order for the document to exist, most of the following questions has to be answered:

• who wrote it?
• who was addressed?
• when was it exactly written?
• WHAT WAS WRITTEN THERE EXACTLY?
• What is the context?
• Why did he write it? what was his motivation?
• How widespread was it?
• When was it rediscovered?
• Can one see it today or a photo of it?

Even if my own father said that it exists, for me it doesn't exist until most questions are answered.

You see the difference between me and you? between western culture and Arab narrative?
We know things. You "know" things. For you, having heard them in the mosque/from the environment is already a "proof" that its true.

Let me illustrate to you why one sentence from the letter, even if it exists, is not enough to be taken seriously.

Now I can write in my blog that at after WWI, the British did everything they can to care for the Arabs and did not co-operate with the jews. As a "proof", I can quote a "widespread British document" that says:

I look for real knowledge not disinformation - which is more or less everything you know.
So make some research about the jewish document that sees Islam as an act of god's mercy. If you find the document, let me know, I'm curious. Until then, the document does not exist.

("finding" does not mean that you find it on the personal blog from abdallah abd-alkarim from Kuwait - the quality of your "proofs", but answering my questions from above in a verifiable way).

Imad you are making big progress. Soon you will arrive to the 21th century.

 

Chaos, good post - keep it up. I'm reading and feeling you. I know sometimes it's like beating your head against a brick wall, but plenty of us enjoy your posts. +rep. (Even if I'll get a few reds from the Muzzies )

 

let's review a little:

I mentioned the quote which was part of so many other quotes in that thread,

you were stuck on it, said the quote was taking from a site, and tried to imply that it is fake.

I gave you the original source of the quote, which is that book in your hands.

you tried to imply that such book does not exist, or that the book does not have that quote in it,

I gave you Jewish sources that also mentioned the book and the quote,

still it was enough, and you tried to imply that it is not as I quoted it,

then you bought that book, and came to say that it does not exist, trying to imply that I m lying, well here not actually "imply" but you said it directly,

after you been shown that it does exist, in a way that you no longer could deny, you admitted that it does exist, and that you read it, but now you tried to imply that you did not notice it, despite you mainly bought that book to check for it,

and now, you want to imply that the prof who wrote that book, and spent his life researching and looking for historical documents, is lying? and such document does not exist, but he just made it up based on no real proof?

or that prof was fool and he mentioned a document that is been wrote by Muzzies lol and not Jews?

in short, you are trying to imply that me, that site, that book, that prof, are all lying in somehow, and you are saying the truth, and your proof is that same book, despite you cast doubts in its author?

and you want to imply that main Zionist propaganda, which says Jews been treated badly, under Muslims?

it is not me who you want to convince with that propaganda, which says that Jews been treated badly under Islam, it is Jews themselves that you need to convince them with that, whether they were Jews living under Islam rule in Syria, or Spain, or North Africa, here are some names and their quotes, starting with your ex-president Ezer Weizman who said:

then those nuts maybe? as you see them, or self-hating Jews, who organized this event, umm, I know you are so busy trying to correct that prof work, but you may need to send LA Times a letter to show them how stupid they are quoting this, it is important, it makes Muzzies look good:

Morocco is Muslim, and Arab, and in North Africa in case you do not know, you need to convince those Jews who organized this museum that they are wrong But I do not blame you as a Zionist, you know almost nothing about the history of the region, or even about Jews.

this one about Albania, not in North Africa, but it's worth to mention too:

Do not forget to send the Washington Post, and once you finish correcting prof S.D., you have another book to correct: "Besa: Muslims who Saved Jews in World War II. "

Tunisia is in North Africa, in case you do not know too:

here is another book for you to correct, it speaks about the Algerian Imam (Algeria is in North Africa too) of the Grand Mosque of Paris, do not forget to send the French government to follow the smart move of the Swiss, and ban the minarets of this mosque:

oh, and while there, somebody please shut this mad Rabbi up, how crazy .. Jew of Islam!! :

 

I will have to agree with you on this...
Its a day to celebrate and spread joy and love.

 

Sadiqi, this just show the amount of "tolerance" Muslims have for us.

If we were to ban something like Ramaddan here in the West, you'd hate us.

Meantime, banning a Western holiday in Saudi Arabia sounds like something I'd (and you would) completely expect in a Muslim country.

Double standards, anyone?

 

That's a real relief. Despite the fact that I am not a jew, I am sure that all jews worldwide will sigh in relief once they know they're "only dhimmis, or second class citizens".

I am sure it makes their heart sing and love their best Arab buddies forever.

I mean, hey, ONLY a second class citizen, that's good! Could've been third or fourth class too....

 

Yeah, I expected somebody will come and say something like: "SEE THERE WERE 2ND CLASS CITIZENS" and pay no attention to how they were treated under Christianity, as criminals, inferior, filthy, evil, god killers ...etc

and since you know nothing about "Dhimmi" I recommend you to research it, or open a thread about it, then you can build your opinion about it being 2nd class, or not based on knowledge not your need to defend the bloody actions of Christianity, or out of prejudice, or out of hatred of Muslims.

 

Nice example of "logic" which our Muslim friends are using permanently.
It is way to argue not to subject matter but personally, saying something like this "it is you who is fool, not me" or "not only am I bad".
Yes, Christianity did that - in the middle Ages (with much repentance since that) (and Nazis in the 20th century - but they are not Christians, aren't they?). So what? It is enough for you to justify discrimination in itself; it is a proof that it's not so bad when YOU are trying to consider Jews as "second class citizens"?
Good logic.

 

We dare you to do so.

As for topic on Valentine's Day, this article should be clear why it forbid in Islam.

 

What i was saying, is: know the concept of dhimitude (safeguard and protection) and if you do not know it, feel free to start a thread about it.

Islam is not bad, you are the one who said so, if you feel you are bad, do not take others with you.

and ww2 (holocaust) is not in middle ages

one important point here, our Christian friends always use it, they say, what means, yeah, Christianity was bad, but that was in middle ages, when there were crusades, forgetting so many other incidents, like Rwanda in 90's, China, India, native Americans ..etc

and, now its good, I wonder, what changed since then, if you believe Christianity is from God? was it from else than God then, as you believe, and now it became from God? or was Christians understanding for it was wrong then, and now it became correct, if it is this, on which bases they corrected it? bible? or something else?

 

i still don't understand, why christian want muslim to celebrate their christian holiday in a muslim country?

 

I love this. I don't think it deserves a separate post, but I think it requires clarification.

I really did not know anything about the concept of Dhimmi until you told me to look into it. So I was actually hoping that you are right, just to prove myself wrong once in a while. So I opened wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi)

First thing I stumbled upon was:

The term connotes an obligation of the state to protect the individual, including the individual's life, property, and freedom of religion and worship, and required loyalty to the empire,​

So far so good... Then, though right after it, I saw this (which made me go oh-oh, since I'm not a jew or anyone else falling under the condition of Dhimmi):

Dhimmi had fewer legal and social rights than Muslims, but more rights than other non-Muslim religious subjects.​

and then I read this:

Conversion by a dhimmi to Islam was generally easy, and almost without exception emancipated the new convert from all legal impairments of his previous dhimmi status.​

...and everything came to its place - that's a pretty easy way to get 1.8 billion followers, for sure! We'll conquer your country and give you a chance to become a Muslim to have the same rights we do... neato!

So I read more, of course...

[IOver the course of many centuries, dhimma gradually led to the conversion of most Zoroastrians and Christians to Islam, but had a limited impact on the Jews. Zoroastrianism was the first to crumble after the Muslim conquest of Persia. Closely associated with the power structures of the Persian Empire, Zoroastrian clergy quickly declined after it was deprived of the state support.[7]

For Christians, the process of conversion was slower — it is possible that as late as at the time of the Crusades Christians still constituted a majority of the population — but no less inexorable. The switch from a dominant to an inferior position proved too difficult for many Christians and they converted to Islam in large numbers. [/I]​

...and now I see everything! Conquer and second-class, with a chance to first-class if you convert.

Classy.

I think you proved your point sufficiently. Thank you for asking me to look into Dhimmi. I'll actually e-mail my Jewish friends with a link to this, so they could see what glorious alternative they have ...I'm sure things will be tougher for me since I'm a hardcore infidel=)

 

Valentine's Day is over. And I guess(hope) the people of KSA are very much alive and happy...so why not end this? *humbly*

 

Islam is not bad. Except that the majority of people that engage in terror attacks on civilians in this day and time are Muslim (see here - http://forums.digitalpoint.com/showpost.php?p=13623058&postcount=32 = a different thread

Muslims participated in both WWII and WWI on both (or sometimes on third) sides. Or they don't teach that part of the history in Islamic states, oh?

Rwanda in the 90's was not a battle between Christians and someone. It was just a local battle between that cynical foreign governments (which I hate, personally) let escalate while standing and watching. And of course someone got very rich selling weapons and ammunition.

China / India - hmmmm? Opium wars in the 19th century or so? That's what you call recent? Okay. Once again keep in mind that profit of CERTAIN governments was the whole point of these wars. It was not a religious thing at all whatsoever.

Native Americans - 17th century? I am sure that's very recent for you. This day and age the Native Americans enjoy lots of special benefits that us, regular folks don't have. Basically they pay less taxes or none at all, have autonomous areas where it's THEIR rule, can open casinos without license, sell cigarettes without tax, etc. Basically they can do a lot of things I cannot do, so the CURRENT situation is really different from what you are alluding to.

 

Ah, so you knew nothing about it before, and went to research and first thing you found you rushed to paste it here without verifying, this says much,

but again, as I said, can you start a thread about Dhimmi's status, take this post you made, and paste it in a new thread, then wait my reply Already many changes of the main topic been done here.