Okay this isn't so much an explanation as a question I've heard of the software known as "affiliate elite" and I've also found a site called JV-Network.com, but can anybody give any more good sources (other then DP) for finding affiliates to sell your products? I'm going to be releasing something hot in a couple weeks and I'm willing to pay money to announce that, Jv-Network looks good so far.. clay
Feel free to check my second sig - post your launch in the calendar, and if you want banner spots let me know - also have a forum with vip announcements to 3000 CB aff's however I have to see/approve the product (most at my forum are top level so it must be a par launch). Best of luck.
Announcing your product/ product launch and actual launch on several of the top forums can attract quite a few affiliates. If your product is worth promoting then I'm sure tens of aff's will join shortly. Consider Clickbank advertising, and getting your product listed in some of the top affiliate directories. These are just some of the few ways to attract affiliates/ there's dozens more though.. Keep in touch with all your affiliates/ make sure to start building lists straight from the ground and keep your affiliates motivated with everything that is changing/new regarding your product. Get inventive.. I've noticed that the top 10 vendors in clickbank, all have their unique ways to recruit affiliates/ and not only but keep them moving forward all the time. Al.
So you mention these "top forums"... what are they!? I'm currently making some changes to my site to improve the conversion rate before announcing a full launch too - all I can find are: clickbank success forums - which don't allow launch announcement posts, and only have limited banner based advertising, ABestWeb -again don't allow free posts, they have decent sounding paid launch announcement posting / emailing, although I don't know how open they are or not to clickbank products but this could be an option. I am looking into the NC forum and will probably be in touch in a couple of weeks or so, but apart from this all I can see are poorly put together "affilaite program directories" which I don't think people really check, and I'm not really convinced that the JV-Network thing gets that much traffic - there aren't even that many announcements posted there as far as I've seen..?
NCMedia just gave you two of his sites to start off with. But there's a lot more forums to announce your product launch. Do a bit of research, I suppose you don't want us to do that. Al.
I did a little paid advertising to recruit affiliates.. It was a waste of time.. Believe it or not, most profitable and long term affiliates come from regular people viewing your site and want to promote it. This is why your affiliate resources is important.. Posting in forums and stuff can be OK, but you will most likely get 16 yr old's trying to do bum marketing.. This isn't the kinds of affiliates that make you much. You should be looking for the affiliates who have an advertising budget or an already established website. And my rule of thumb, if someone has $67 to buy the product, they probably have a hew hundred to invest in advertising. So don't look for large numbers of affiliates, but look for the right affiliates..
You're completely wrong.. And I'd need 3 pages to explain why. I'll just give you a few hints. Everything adds up and it's scalable. If say you've got one affiliate making 10 sales a month that's $300 on average. It may be just pocket money for him or her.. But for you as a vendor everything counts, because it adds up. Imagine having 100 affiliates making 10 sales each on average per month. Lets do the math -- 10 sales x 100 affiliates = 1000 sales Assuming your part is 25% our of a $40 product, you'd make roughly $10 per sale. (might be a bit less, after deducting the clickbank fees and taxes) .. Total gross income = 1000 sales x $10/sale = $10.000 I know what you're saying now, but trust me some of the top vendors have dozes of such affiliates.. What you've said above, would basically mean that you would only want to recruit some of the top affiliates that have solid budgets. Mate, it doesn't work that way.. You'd spoil your business if you don't change your mindset. Al.
As it stands, 95% of CB affiliates never make a single sale. Clickbank vice president of something said they have 1.2 million affiliates and only 110,000 make any sales at all. 100 affiliates making 0 sales equals 0 profit. I never said 10 sales is nothing.. Any affiliate who makes any sales is a good affiliate, But truth be told, most affiliates never make any sales and aren't worth chasing.
Have to disagree here as well, my biggest days/phases/launches/earnings didn't come from having a ton of smaller guys, I've had 10K days with my products with a grav of 5-10, yet 100+ aff's 'trying' to promote. Of course they are all valuable, however 80% of your affiliates are getting you 10-20% of your sales, and your bigger aff's (the other 10-20%) are accounting for 80-90% of your earnings most times - those are the ones that a) stick around b) Have consistency c) have a budget/skills that keep them earning. Not to mention most noobs do dumb shit with their campaigns so you swallow pointless bandwidth accomadating "1million hits for $9" retards and others that don't know what they're doing once you hit big grav. You also have to realize that the guys with the bigger outreach/experience actually enjoy the new smaller programs that are under the radar with small aff groups - until it explodes, by then they've usually cashed in large while everyone is just setting up their campaigns... It makes a WORLD of difference - having the right group in your rolodex vs. recruiting continuously from boards or directories. Look for pools of HOT affiliates, not oceans of noobs (that is IF I had to choose between the two - with CB you don't really have much say/choice except for new launches)...
That's some fascinating info in there Norb. Thanks for sharing this with us.. Statements like you just made are very valuable to the people who want to learn, not for the ones that just like to blab. If your on a beach covered with coins, you obviously go for the silver dollars before you go after the nickles. and this method of thinking doesn't just apply to recruiting affiliates.
Cheers, I'll throw this in too: What matters most is still a) conversions b) earnings for affs. If the big guys promote for your launch, and they get great conversions - it will flutter down to the grass roots marketers, and they will also get good conversions (if coached/prepped..), This will naturally self perpetuate because you have a naturally great converting offer... Eventually the flutter/snowball will max out and normalize < In there somewhere is your lifecycle - could be short, could be timelss - thus is the game of our 'jam at the wall' marketing attempts here right? The same applies if you reverse that - the bigger guys promote, they get 'some' conversions, it flutters down, the grass roots guys get 'some' conversions (gravity aside < that's a whole separate monster), and it doesn't max out or normalize, it just doesn't grow (or is marginal). The more often you launch, and or train/condition yourself with proper JV's and prep for your big day, the greater your chances of hitting it big (obviously). So don't think that if you find all the hot pockets of great aff's, and recruit them, that your job is done. Sometimes NOT recruiting is good too. Just monetize on your own, if it DOES convert well you will naturally 'be found' < best case scenario - and THEN you can start your recruitment efforts once it proves itself. If you're new to launches, I'm sorry but expect it to fail and be considered a learning curve - not that you won't bank big, just realize 1000's of people at all levels launch things daily on tons of networks and it's a shark pool for the newer guys. You'll notice that there are phases here where there are 10+ launches a week, all crap rehashed micro niche untested offers because the new vendor simply thinks "Build program > put on CB > paste recruitment on DP/some directories > let the cash rolllll in!" < In theory yes this is a good baby step, but you've done missed 50 steps that you could/should have done and launched next month instead and maybe made 10x your return if you planned right. If you do hit it big, hold onto that shit for everything it's worth and maximize every cent out of every customer - backend/upsells/oto's/email updates/never stop looking for ways to monetize and maximize your proven buyers.
wow some interesting points here, I have to agree that its going to be the power affiliates that really bring the bulk of the sales. I'm going to pay $100 bucks for a JV-network.com announce, they seem to have some big players around there, does anybody else know any sties where you can post to affiliates?
Thanks for the info guys, some real good stuff here - really appreciate it Norb - I'll be in touch in a few weeks when I have a solid, and GOOD conversion rate - no way I want to risk announcing and launching without a solid conversion The advice you give mirrors my experience with another website I run in a different niche - we have over 400 affiliates, and only probably 7 or so of them make 90% of sales, another 5-10 make another 5% and the remaining 5% is done by another 30-40 affiliates, with the remaining 300+ affilaites being mostly inactive or sending tiny amounts of traffic or not converting. So I do know you need those 5-10 big guys more than anything, but the more you recruit and more personal recruitment emails you send to potential big affiliates the more chance you have of getting them involved, so I really want sources of recruitment and to make this business affiliate driven - and long lasting
Norb, some really great suggestions, but what you're really saying is that Vendors should avoid recruiting noobs, am I right? That's completely wrong, and I'd like to explain why.. Noobs can always improve their skills and learn better ways to market your product even if they started off from scratch (there's always time to learn). A strong/solid relationship with your affiliates can always get them on the right track sooner or later. I've seen some of the top vendors in several networks doing that will inexplicable success, I'd say. There's a product in clicbank (won't name it, that makes a killing for more than one year now) Most of its affiliates have started from scratch, it is the vendor that knew exactly how to motivate those affiliates to learn/ and maximize their revenue month after month and trust me I am not talking BS here, I have all the proof for that particular product. Its gravity/earnings are phenomenal for that niche. Now, I can't agree with you more. Backend/upsells/oto's/email updates/ are just as important, but they don't work for every niche, moreover most people just starting off, don't know how to make a proper backend offer /upsell offer/oto.. That's exactly where a lot of vendors fail. (They just tend to believe that they've implemented the right marketing strategy for their product/services. For those that aren't yet familiar with all these terms here's a great resource to get started... http://www.marketersboard.com/upsells-downsells-onetime-offers/ Norb - Look for pools of HOT affiliates, not oceans of noobs (that is IF I had to choose between the two - with CB you don't really have much say/choice except for new launches)... I'm afraid that some of those HOT affiliates wouldn't be that nterested in promoting a newly launched product (at least for certain niche/most of them actually) They'd rather wait till the product collects some stats and then jump in .. (I'm not talking about some of the top vendors in clickbank that can easily arrange JV's anytime/anyday. I am talking about someone just like the "thread starter". I'd rather build a brand around my product/ and a long term relationship with my affiliates instead of running after "3 rabbits" and not catching any. I'm not saying that HOT affiliates are not as important but they're quite hard to reach Regards Al.
Definitely not saying avoid recruiting noobs. I'm saying if you recruit at all, it is inevitable you will get noobs, but it doesn't work vice versa (if you go LOOKING for just noobs, the big guys probably won't be batting their eyelashes at it). I'm also stating that from my own personal experience (not someone elses, that has one success story to differ facts and avg's among the bigger vendors) that with 30+ products, and watching 10,000+ affiliates, I'm looking at hard data here as proof. I am quite friendly with both the top level CB'ers, and the newbies, and out of my 10,000+ affiliates (many of whom also started as noobs and were shaped/trained to be interm/pros) only 1000 or so of them bank any real money with consistency on more than one offer. Also many of the noobs that turn pro, simply use you to learn your model and shortly after they turn into your competitors so new aff's are needed for sure, but your JV's and top level are extremely important - fact is over 75% of my top level are not just aff's, they are like me - launch programs, promote others programs, monetize on lists, monetize on other stuff outside of CB - they are business people that can spot good opps, not CB diehards looking for that perfected formula. Building a brand around your product is smart, as is building a brand that is responsible for building brands all under one umbrella Again back to that good rolodex of people you've met/trained/worked with, it's important over time because a single brand/offer only lasts so long, and I'll tell you now that having a diversified portfolio of products/launches/sectors/business models is smart for both the vendor, and their partners/affs that 'chases his rabbits' as you put it Good affiliates that build relationships with others, don't limit themselves to one vendor, one brand, or one offer - they simply look for money and hot pockets of new opportunities - like the op. At the end of the day - there is only ONE of you, and so much time/money in your day - if you have unlimited amounts of time and money to recruit - then you should attack all fronts/hot pools/oceans/noob boards/whateva... If you're like most though and are limited to your time/budget, you're not going to be able to, and if you had to choose between recruiting noobs vs experienced folk - who would YOU rather have promote your offer? When interviewing people to work for you - would you rather 100 of the underqualified passionate type? Or the experienced proven workers with a good resume and track record? To each his own, but I'd rather better predicted results by default and would spend more time finding appropriate channels/partners/market approaches etc. than just being random and hoping for the best from the new guys at DP. I'll say it again, and you'll hear me say it in a few upcoming progs of mine - you can be a millionaire with a grav of 10, and you can be making less than $200/day with a grav of 100-200. Quality affs create volume sales, volume noobs create crazy fluctuations with a crazier turn over rate of affs that try, make a few sales, and give up... a grav of 200 also means that a good 150 of those are that 'turn over' above that keep coming and going. It's a case by case scenario and a good vendor will indeed try to train/work with as many of their aff's as possible however that's not what everyone's business model is - nor is there a perfected model that everyone follows. Yeah some love the pump/dump/repeat programs, some like the 2-3 year cycle programs, some like to stay under the radar with many small programs spread among 50 top level aff's making money quietly, as seen on DP some like to just copy/paste/launch word for word products, some like the JV only approach, some totally bullshit their way until they make it, everyone is chasing the same nickel but most have no clue that there are quarters, twonies, and bills all over the place too if you look and dig properly... (meaning approach the market right, monetize, and exit, as planned). You will find yourself falling into whatever works for you, and falling all over the place until something does.
Some good theory I'd say but I'd still have one question .. How would you go about finding those top affs. if say you were ten years back and just launching your first product? If you just came online for some ventures/ no contacts, no partners, not even knowing a forum? I'm not talking here top CB vendors, don't get me wrong/ but I have enough fingers on one hand to count some of the top vendors in CB that hang on DP, and you'd be surprised to know how much I know and again they're still looking for more affiliate noobs under their belts just as everyone else is. As how much it concerns me I do have a few contacts/partners that can easily bring in a couple thousands within my first week as a vendor. But just like you've said and I totally agree with you on that part is that it's always better to take all the required steps before launching a product, and hit big within it's first week/month instead of failing right from the start. Al.
Chances are that if it's your first product, you won't find them at all, and they won't find you. Hence as stated above, your first product is usually considered a learning curve for literally all aspects of an offer - the front end, the pricing, the market positioning, the commission, the recruitment/JV search, the return on your time/investment. It will probably FAIL and so might your second or third product - I've failed on at least 10 products BIG time, but luckily I have resources/skills that help limit costs/time to pump these programs out. You simply pay your dues, learn the ropes, and climb the ladder like everyone else does - getting yourself some great foundational knowledge and starting to build that rolodex yesterday is a good start. The traditional aspects of a good JV and launch recruitment strategy still apply, and yes it's totally possible to get your offer converting from scratch and go huge right here at DP - yes, swerd, ripped, a few others have proven that - however I can count many many many more that you'll never hear about, or know of, who bank just as much and more without having to continuously hang out at forums or recruit non-stop or hope/pray for sig clicks and launch thread responses... i.e. I'm a silent partner on a few big programs where my name isn't anywhere, and you'd never know they were partially mine, and others that don't go on the marketplace because I don't want them there - I just want my private JV group on them.
I don't deny privacy is sometimes golden but I don't yet see a solid reason to be that way.. I don't deny your success, and we all know how hard it is to climb up the ladder however I will have to disagree with you that the first product is always a failure. I have been marketing for well over two years now. learned/tweaked/tested jumped in several online business models that partially have been a success. What I have learned and this is the most important part of it all. -- Most people that fail, fail for one sole reason -- "The worst marketing tactic is to do nothing but wait.. and we all know how many users have opened threads to cry out their failures, but they haven't even lifted a finger for years in a row. As a conclusion, anyone can have success recruiting intermediate/beginner affiliates just like Swerd/Ripped and some others have done on DP and several other forums. In the end it's the product that matters as well and not only how many affiliates promote it. Al.
One, simple, reason. Say I have 25 HOT affiliates/partners, I launch my program, all of my aff's start banking large because they GET the game and have proven themselves. If I'm on the marketplace, my gravity shoots to 25, that notifies 40 ClickBank sites that pull the daily feed = TONS and TONS of noobs pick up the offer, my gravity goes to xxx, all those noobs that came on board just diluted my offer, and are all taking my top 25 affiliates money because most markets are limited, now my CPC for my niche/offer just skyrocketed because of all the keyword comeptition.. . .. and .. . .now my top 25 just said 'Fuck it, i'm gone, this offer just went to shit' < And so my top 25 guys with money and skills just dropped me because they see my offer as dirty and filled with noobs driving cpc and competition up too much to keep the offer profitable, and or the next private offer is already here. So now I went from 25 guys all making 50-250 sales each a day - to 100 guys making 0-5 sales a day, and a few hitting 10-50 maybe.. Not trying to puff out success or prove myself, just want to be factual and throw in some credentials so people know I'm not speculating