We hired two contractors to build an ecommerce site. We paid them and an Indian developer to design and implement the site. When we found out that they were putting all the IP in their name while using our Credit Card for payment and they missed the deadline for finishing the site, we terminated the contract. But, they had all the user id's and passwords for the site and DB, so they just took it over and basically took it with them when they left. Our hoster was no help, because they put that in their name too - but we paid. We were blocked at every turn and now they control the site. Our attorney has asked twice for them to shut down the site because it is not their IP, but they don't respond. They live in some kind of delusional world. One of the contractors sent us an email saying that they would like to get the source code for nothing and that everything should be forgotten and forgiven. He even claimed to provide a goodwill gesture of transferring two of his domain names to us because he was such a great guy - his dad was copied on the email. Turns out he didn't even own the domain names and the goodwill gesture was just for show - very strange really. So, now that you know the background, what possible recourse do we have? There is obviously the civil route, but what about the criminal? Ths looks like a felony to me with theft and fraud being the two most obvious contenders. Does anyone know of free resources or any gov org to get help from? Also, one of them actually did at least one video recording of the owner in the workplace, without his knowledge. I believe that could be considered espionage. Thx, PJ
Simple... contact your card issuer and submit a chargeback "for services not delivered". You are refunded... case closed. Next time use milestone payments & escrow services.
Since we are the legal owners of the code, and have the source, we have been moving forward under another domain name. We don't want the thieves to use our code to compete with us. We want them shut down and refrain from using our code. A refund scenario would jeopardize our claim to ownership as payment is the only means we have to show that we payed for the development....
Consult with a local IP attorney... You need to determine what you really desire here... if the single most important objective is preventing use of your IP you need to focus solely on that. I would think WIPO arbitration which normally costs $1500. (plus your attorney legal fees to prepare documents) can deliver that outcome but you really need an attorney to review the facts of the case.
WHAT! wow... the best thing to do is to get an attorney involved and let them know fully what happened. I think you can also file something with your CC company if I'm not mistaken.
For future projects, use your server and make sure that you have complete access to everything and that your name is on everything. Mistake number one was putting everything in their name. It is hard to hire someone and make sure that they don't resell your software, especially out of country where your laws may not apply to theirs.
The owner assumed that these guys were honest and they weren't. He had no idea they would do this to him. He even let one of the guys stay in his cottage while they did the work. Invited him to family functions and parties while he was getting smiled at, yet stabbed in the back. The other guy played the God card a lot. You can't be a thief and a God fearing Bible toter can ya? Found out yesterday that they even Trademarked the Logo that they didn't pay for. Somehow, these numb nuts thought they owned everything they touched - but they were contractors !!!!! I'm not convinced they were simply devious, I think they may be clueless as well. The bottom line is, if you didn't pay for it, it isn't yours ....
The problem is not with the company in india. We used a popular company in Fla to get bids on the job and act as an intermediary. This company has strict rules and many agreements that the buyer and seller need to abide by. It is made very clear to the developer that what they create is "work for hire" and they own no part of it. We were fine with all that. The problem was created when the local contractors - the two people sitting in the same office as us near Seattle - signed up to the service in Florida using their company name and address and OUR credit card number. It should have been OUR Company Name, OUR company address, and OUR Credit card number. So, the software was created and delivered to their company, while we paid the bill!! Who would have thought they were doing something so blatantly illegal right under our noses? This gets even more entertaining. When the owner started getting suspicious he asked the local contractors for a copy of the source code. He was told by one of the local contractors that source code was old school and things weren't done that way anymore. The code was running up in the cloud and was spread all over the Internet, so there was no way to get it all in one place. Either he was lying or sincerely didn't know what source code was .... nah, lying ...
The first and big mistake was like buying everything on there name.As you have hired them on contract basis.If you have hired them through some intermediary company ask that company to resolve this issue.If those people are in your country now you hire an attorney and act against them. If you really want free route to get your domains back drop a mail to him copy to his dad about this issue and tell that if you don't want to return back our code and domains you can put case against them of credit card forgery. In business everything should be on papers.Don't believe people are giving all this crap about god and all. I hope you will get your stuff back this time but be cautious from next time.
Listen... if you're just "VENTING" ok post away.... but that won't change a thing. You MUST contact an attorney to resolve this if you are looking to recover IP and/or sue for criminal intent or damages. You've "suggested" here they used your Credit Card which you either authorized or didn't... if you have no intention of seeking legal advice and litigation then all you have left is the card issuer. If you "really wish to make these guys pay without you paying" dispute the charges, the charges are recovered and the trademark is revoked and then the Patent & Trademark commission will be after them to recoup their loses. But honestly, you sound like you're happy being unhappy.
I wanted to get multiple perspectives on the situation, because there could be free or low cost avenues for assistance that I am not aware of and our attorney certainly wouldn't tell us. My posts have been , in part, an effort of clarification for the replies that I received. I admit there is a bit of therapy in describing the various aspects of the dilemma and it feels good to let it out. So, stop whining and use your attorney seems to be appropriate at this point .. Oh, what the hell, one last thing that happened yesterday. It appears one of the local consutants is on the run ! He used our company address as his contact address and a process server showed up with a subpoena. He lives in a boarding house in Seattle and all his wordly possessions are a laptop and a duffel bag and a beater car. We should have seen the signs right there, but he was played up as a highly successful programming god by the other consultant - whom we trusted. Out
It's great to get opinions first... the problem - there is absolutely no way for anyone here to get a complete and accurate picture... written agreements, correspondence need to be reviewed as these are the MEAT of your claim. Normally a first "consult" with any attorney is free and it won't be a 2 minute hand-written or typed exchange with only surface dialog. They will likely ask for documents to review and denote costs & potential outcomes... and only then do you really have options.
If I am following this correctly, you hired a couple local guys to lead the development of a site. Then you claim that every step of the way they set things up so that they could make a run for it at the end, appearing to own the new site and are now opperating it. This would be so bizarre that I'm trying to look at it from their perspective. Missing deadlines is nothing in this business and putting the accounts in their name doesn't necessarily make them snakes (their intent may have been to change the data to your company at the end). Did you dump them specifically because of these two relatively minor things or was there more? How far along was the site? Did you withhold any money? If so, could they have felt short changed for the work that was done? I'm just trying to think of why they would take the site with them and feel as though they now own it. Either these guys are very odd scammers or you did something to really piss them off.
I have tried to look at it from their perspective and one of them did send an odd email claiming both sides got screwed, so that actually says a lot. I know they are young and had serious $ signs in their heads and were disappointed when the thing went sideways. The site was partially complete with some serious ommissions. The solution is based on email and the required series of emails didn't even send which was a huge issue, but there were over 100 bugs that I have discovered and there is even more work to do to make it enterprise ready.They obviously didn't have enterprise design and coding experience, the first large number of bugs I worked on were just "getting the dumb out". It has been several months and we are still working on it. One of the other things is they tried to guide one of the beta sites into doing a project with just them after the beta was over. It tells me they had the plan of doing it on their own way before they were terminated. There were other things like trying to hold the owner up for 70% of the business in a proposed follow-on contract. He didn't bite and they walked with the site even though we needed access to service the beta customers. That was a painful experience and it is still ongoing to some extent. Thanks for making me think of the "other side". They still don't have any receipts to prove ownership and we do and sometimes I wonder just what the hell they are thinking to move forward with something they don't own. After reading some of the posts here, it looks like it is all too common ....
what has this got to do with outsourcing out of country? this can happen within your own country, and there is nothing stopping you from taking legal actions in any other country if you do business with them. I am assuming that there was a registered company involved - and not freelancers.