Obama Effigy and Freedom of Speech/Expression

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by new, Jan 4, 2010.

  1. Genuine Marketer

    Genuine Marketer Well-Known Member

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    #21
    There is always riots in that country. They must not have many forms of entertainment so what is better than an old fashion riot with lot's of blood as well.
     
    Genuine Marketer, Jan 5, 2010 IP
  2. new

    new Peon

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    #22
    yes, why not
    I am not a hypocrite, who would say that Obama effigy bad bad, Muslim Cartoons Good Good

    and just for your information, Islam itself stops from hurting the religious feelings of others, mocking other religions, no matter how absurd they may be, is not allowed


    what do you mean by 'hate being part of religion'?
    don't get carried away but what the media says and the propaganda
    Islam is a very tender religion, just take a look at the following from Quran and Hadith

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "The best of you are those who are slow to anger and swift to cool down...Beware of anger, for it is a live coal on the heart of the descendants of Adam

    .If someone kills another person - unless it is in retaliation for someone else or for causing corruption in the earth - it is as if he had murdered all mankind. And if anyone gives life to another person, it is as if he had given life to all mankind.


    Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "One of the major sins is to curse ones parents". It was submitted: "O Messenger of Allah! How can a man curse his own parents?" He (PBUH) said, "When someone curses the parents of another man who in return abuses the formers father; and when someone abuses the mother of another man who in return abuses his mother."



    The worst of shepherds is the ungentle, who causes the beasts to crush or bruise one another


    . . when they are angry, they forgive." [al-Shooraa 42:47]


    All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action

    read Human Rights in Islam

    Rights of Enemies in Islam
     
    new, Jan 6, 2010 IP
  3. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #23
    If the FBI is involved, they likely have some information that makes them believe that this might be a threat to the President or National Security, not a simple display of patriotism.

    The fact that it happened in Carter's home town above Carters sign, kinda makes me think it was nothing more than a distasteful display protected by the First Amendment.

    They could have just as easily placed an effigy of Carter up there, as it stands there is little difference between Carter and Obama outside of religion and skin tone.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2010
    Mia, Jan 6, 2010 IP
  4. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #24
    Carter=Hamas supporter. go figure.
     
    Obamanation, Jan 6, 2010 IP
  5. Mia

    Mia R.I.P. STEVE JOBS

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    #25
    More like Carter=Ignorant.
     
    Mia, Jan 6, 2010 IP
  6. Corwin

    Corwin Well-Known Member

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    #26
    I am not referring to what the media says. I am referring to what YOU WROTE:
    I cannot think of any use of Christian imagery in a cartoon, no matter how disrespectful, where Christians would shout that the cartoon was a threat to the 1.2bn Christians of the World. My Religion does not react that way, and has not reacted that way in modern history. You tell us that you believe that Muslims can be incited to hatred, yet my religion cannot. Why is that???

    I accept your believe that Islam is a religion of Peace - but if you carefully look at Islam's history, for centuries Islam has unfortunately been manipulated to justify horrible crimes and murder - just look at how the Muslim world tried to blackmail U.S. shipping in the Mediterranean during the USA's early years.

    For a time, here in the USA, there was a horrible organization called the KKK that perverted Christianity to justify racial hatred and religious intolerance. Christians openly denounced the KKK, and despite the dangers good Christians brought down the KKK. Many good Christians died in that fight. Today, many good Christians, especially wealthy ones, donate money to help the needy.

    When you read the news, yes, it appears that Islam looks like a religion of hatred. So, why don't we see billions of good Muslims stand up and denounce these extremists? Why isn't there a central Muslim organization in the USA, funded by wealthy Muslims, dedicated to promoting a "religion of peace" and openly denouncing the terrorists on every talk show on TV?

    My religion teaches that you shall know people by their actions. Quoting your religion's holy book is nice, but what about the fruits of the religion's labor?

    Why is it that, during the tragic 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami, the first to show up were Americans and the money that poured in was Christian? Over a hundred thousand people died, most of them Muslim, and more were hungry and homeless. Why did it take over a week for the first Muslim nation to trickle in funds to help with the relief?
     
    Corwin, Jan 6, 2010 IP
  7. new

    new Peon

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    #27
    but you do think that the effigy was ;)

    because christains don't find any problem with that.
    Not everyone is same, x can get aroused by A, y can get aroused by B
    Hindus get aroused on idea of eating cow meat, likewise you might find something OK but others might not
    the things like these cartoons are just a hateful mockery of Muslims as it is known by all that Muslims dislike such things and just because of that the media and the hate mongers try to stir the emotions of Muslims
    they try to check their nerves and in a way throw a challenge to them, obviously the reaction is going to come when you try to test a community


    Everyone says there is terrorism, but have you ever tired to realize that what causes terrorism? what motivates other people on terrorism? may be others have some genuine concerns that need to be addressed ?

    Why don't we see debates on CNN and BBC and articles in NTY and WP trying to find the root cause of terrorism ?
     
    new, Jan 6, 2010 IP
  8. Corwin

    Corwin Well-Known Member

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    #28
    ?????
    I don't understand your point.

    Don't find a problem with what???? I see what you are responding to, but your answer doesn't make much sense.

    new, again, you admit that hate mongers try to stir the emotions of Muslims. There, you ADMIT that hatred can be stirred in the emotions of Muslims, right? And so "hate mongers" as you call them try to stir those emotions. WHY is that so successful in stirring hatred in Muslims? Why, when the Danish cartoon was first published, were there violent Islamic protests? Doesn't that behavior directly contradict your claim that Islam is a religion of peace?

    Why are Muslims so easily provoked to hatred?

    Are you claiming that you feel that there are real, legitimate and genuine reasons to justify terrorism? Is it your answer that THAT is the reason why there is no central Muslim charity in the USA that denounces terrorism - because you believe the Muslim religion is a religion of terrorism? Doesn't that behavior directly contradict your claim that Islam is a religion of peace?

    If I now accept that your claim that Islam is NOT a religion of peace, can you tell me, in your mind, what are the genuine concerns that justify terrorism?
     
    Corwin, Jan 6, 2010 IP
  9. new

    new Peon

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    #29
    simple, you think effigy was a threat to Obama but cartoons were not a threat to Muslims



    HATE MONGERS: the ones who publish and promote things like cartoons, who spread their hate against the ones who Muslims consider sacred

    why are Muslims provoked? why does A gets provoked by x while B does not? as I mentioned earlier, you might be OK with one thing but your neighbor might not
    Christians might be OK with mockery of Jesus but Muslims are not

    but what is terrorism?
    I think the blockade of Gaza by isreal is terrorism, you think that the struggle against that is terrorism?

    I think that those foreign forces who occupy Afghanistan are terrorist , you think that those who fight against the external forces for their freedom are terrorists

    You think that those who fought against the USSR in Afghanistan were freedom fighters who fight now against NATO/US are terrorists ?

    I think the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was an act of terrorism, you think it was a legitimate act of WAR
     
    new, Jan 6, 2010 IP
  10. Corwin

    Corwin Well-Known Member

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    #30
    The effigy was initially considered a threat to the LIFE of the President. But no one was arrested, and it has been treated as a harmless yet stupid prank. THE EFFIGY IS NO LONGER CONSIDERED A THREAT!!!

    How was the cartoon considered to be a direct threat to the LIFE of a particular person? Do you think that offending someone is the same as shooting at them? And that both are punishable by death?

    Why are some Muslims so easily provoked to hatred and murder?

    What do you consider to be the correct response by all good Muslims to "hate mongers"? Why are some Muslims so easily provoked to hatred and murder?

    NO! THAT IS ***NOT*** WHAT I WROTE!!!!

    Christians are NOT OK with mockery of Jesus!

    But Christianity, which is a STRONG religion of LOVE and PEACE, does NOT react in a hypocritical way! Christianity does NOT react with hatred! That is because CHRISTIANITY IS STRONG!!!

    You seem to think that Islam is too weak to handle any sort of criticism. Is that right?

    According to U.S. Code Title 22, Ch.38, Para. 2656f(d)(2), the term "terrorism" means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents;

    so, terrorism is also the deliberate, calculated, and purposeful targeting of civilians for death - not as an afterthought or accident, but as a central and complete strategy. It is when the aggressor openly admits "we want to kill civilians".

    Any other attempt to change the word to mean something else (like the useless U.N. definition) is a dishonest attempt to manipulate the word.

    Did Israel openly announce "we are blockading Gaza to kill civilians"? If so, please show me a DIRECT quote by an official Israeli news agency. And don't link to a long, biased Arab blog and expect me to read the whole thing - show me an Israeli news agency website where they openly admit that the blockage of Gaza is to "kill civilians". Show me.

    I don't think you believe that the US forces in Afghanistan are terrorist - I think you are manipulating the word "terrorist" to mean something else. But you cannot show me an official quote from a U.S. President where he openly states he wants to kill the civilians of Afghanistan, can you?

    No. You have it completely wrong. First, the USSR and the USA in Afghanistan are fighting different people. Second, the people the USA is fighting in Afghanistan are officially classified "enemy combatants". An Afgani that shoots at an American soldier is an 'enemy combatant".

    It's only when the Afgani start shooting at an Afgan mother breast-feeding her child is the Afgani is called a terrorist by his own people.

    Don't lie to prove your own point - it disrespects you and the religion you pretend to represent. You absolutely will not get away with it here.

    The unfortunate bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the very last acts of a war that Japan refused to admit they lost. Truman did not tell Japan he wanted to kill civilians, he told them he wanted to surrender. If you bother to study the war, you would have seen that, unless those two cities were bombed, Japan's own leaders admit that they wanted to continue fighting until every last person in Japan was dead.

    But, after the regrettable but necessary bombings, the USA provided aid and medicine to both cities. What mercy have Islamic extremists/terrorists provided to the families of those they killed?

    Why is it that, during the tragic 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami, the first to show up were Americans and the money that poured in was Christian? Over a hundred thousand people died, most of them Muslim, and more were hungry and homeless. Why did it take over a week for the first Muslim nation to trickle in funds to help with the relief?
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2010
    Corwin, Jan 6, 2010 IP
  11. Rebecca

    Rebecca Prominent Member

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    #31
    Are you honestly unable to understand the difference?

    On a side note...

    The cartoon of mo suggested there was a relationship between islam and violence. This cartoon would have been relatively unknown, however many muslims seemed determined to prove the cartoonist was right. For any one in doubt, the muslim protesters lighted embassies on fire, caused the death of 100 people in cartoon protest riots, and continue to make murder attempts against the cartoonists. Ironic, isn't it?

    Muslim protesters made the point for the cartoonist, and then some.


    Our laws protect freedom of speech. We cannot make threats, but mocking is allowed. If it's so upsetting, just block out your internet access to any country where they do not have strict blasphemy laws, and only read news that does not dangerously deviate from view points other than your own. I think it's insulting and hateful that muslim protesters think they can eliminate freedom of speech with intimidation and violence...

    "Muslim students burn an effigy of Pope Benedict XVI at a protest rally in Allahabad, India, Friday, Sept. 15, 2006. A growing chorus of Muslim leaders has called on the Pope to apologize for the alleged derogatory comments made by him about Islam."

    "Angry mobs stabbed and set fire to bystanders Thursday in rioting that erupted after a newspaper suggested Islam's founding prophet would have approved of the Miss World beauty pageant. At least 50 people were killed and 200 injured."

    Dutch film maker Theo van Gogh, who made a controversial film about Islamic culture, has been stabbed and shot dead in Amsterdam, Dutch police say.

    1990: Iranian leader upholds Rushdie fatwa : Iran's spiritual leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, has said the death sentence on writer Salman Rushdie for alleged blasphemy will remain in force.

    An Islamist terror group linked to al-Qaida is suspected of plotting to blow up Bologna's most important church to erase the offence of a 15th-century Gothic fresco showing Mohammed being tormented by devils in hell.
     
    Rebecca, Jan 6, 2010 IP
  12. Obamanation

    Obamanation Well-Known Member

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    #32
    Now that is funny. Like somehow getting rid of the Fresco will change the fact old Mohammad is in hell.
     
    Obamanation, Jan 6, 2010 IP
  13. Rebecca

    Rebecca Prominent Member

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    #33
    Exactly.

    Anyway, here's a picture of it. Not sure if mo is the one on the left or right.

    [​IMG]
     
    Rebecca, Jan 6, 2010 IP