Correct Ziya , hes also a complete contradiction to what he believes in also. One of the core tenents of zionism is to teach your kids the religion of judaism, yet this guy is a zionist atheist. The guy is really confused about this stuff lol.
I meant to post this earlier but forgot Rachel Corrie, so yea they do roll over peace activists in bulldozers.
He only pretends as being 'atheist', this serves as a good camouflage and helps him to win sympathies of other atheists who fail to see his ulterior motives I think you were not around when couple of days back when this 'atheist' was vehemently fighting to justify the genital mutilation in Judaism
ChaosTrivia - "If you spent so much time to learn more about the jewish religion and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, there were more that we could talk about." - Uber Atheist NOT
I really shouldn't but I am a glutton for punishment. First of all, I am not a young person by any stretch. I have several diplomas and have studied various religions. I have Jewish relations (not Zionists) and I have muslim friends. I have read portions of the Tora, the Qran, and the Bible. I am in no way a religious person in the traditional sense of the words and don't subscribe to the beliefs (or rather fantasies) of any of these cults. I have followed this thread throughout and I have also read the document and particularly the chapter and verse in question. I have analysed the wording and paraphrasing of the subject matter being debated. I've said all this first so that you can clearly see that I am more than qualified from both an academic and from a real world experience perspective to comment on this. The bottom line is that the sentence that you are debating has been used in its full and complete context. The document does not qualify in any preceding statement how the statement in question is to used in any other context than that which it appears. That is to say the in the first instance the preceding sentence explains (in summary) that the Liberal left is not easily persuaded by the Zionist cause. I should also point out that it does not at any point detail what they believe that cause to be. It simply states, without further qualification or interpretation required, that there is justification in shooting children from tanks. debunked you are completely wrong. You act all high and mighty and project some sort of superiority over anyone who opposes your view but the fact remains that upon proper analysis of this document it is exactly what the OP purports it to be. I'd like to also address some of the other points you have tried to raise in order to justify your position. On the point of Muslims being nomadic people. This is a complete fabrication. In fact every religious charter including the Tora, and the Bible all conceded that in fact it was the Jews who were the nomads. IE "deliver us to the promised land". On top of this, there is a great deal of documented historical fact to support this. On the point of geography. Israel is not a geographical country as you explain it. It is a state within a country. It is no more a country than the Vatican, District of Columbia, London, all of which are independent states. Do a little research and know a little history and you'll know that this is fact. Palestine is today and since the 19th century has a similar classification. The main difference being the the Palestinian state is the oldest of that bunch. Added to this that the regions which originally made up the Palestinian state did it peacefully and lived with complete tolerance or each others race and religion for hundreds of years. This includes the first 5 years of the jewish occupation. The conflicts that have occurred in the Palestinian region have only began since the expansion of the state of Israel. No I'm not talking about the establishment of the state of Israel, which provided Jews with approximately 2% of the Palestinian region. I am talking about the forceful expansion of that state which has resulted in the occupation of more than 70% of the region today. This forced expansion under every international law and treaty is illegal, and is in direct contravention of the original charter responsible for establishing that state. To your remarks about the Qran. You clearly have never read the book and you are using popular Zionist misinterpretations of the text in a feeble attempt at supporting your position by distorting the facts. On the point of looking at historical facts. You must have missed the part where Israel illegally established themselves as a nuclear power after infiltrating the US military machine and stealing the appropriate documents in order to build their weapons as well as the purchase of materials from known enemies of Israel and its allies. You also must have missed that bit of history where Israel purposely attacked a US warship in an attempt to blame it on Egypt with the intention of starting an Israeli/Arab war. This is now common knowledge. You also must have missed that part of history where for the 15 years leading up to 2006 of the countless numbers of Israeli spies infiltrating the US, being caught, and never being charged with a crime. And most importantly you also missed that part of history that displays that Israel is and has always been clearly backed by the US. So we could say that it's a US backed Israeli/Iran backed Palestinian conflict.Still the result is the same - David and Goliath. And that's only looking at a few small pieces of the last 60 years of history. I can give you a lesson on the previous 2000 years if need be (actually no I won't, do it yourself). The people of Palestine have occupied that land for over 1700 years. To defend it's right to that title is only logical and natural. But the big issue here is that you choose to take your own portions of history, true or false, righteous or not, and attempt to display that Israel is somehow within its rights to do what it does. That is to commit genocide, forced relocation, religious based segregation murder and more. You focus on Hamas rocket and mortar attacks on Israel but fail to mention the same types of attacks preempted and perpetrated by Israel. And you know if you are as smart as you like to think you are then you should realise this one simple truth that cannot be argued. The state of Israel only exists today due to policies of the Nazi's and the mass extermination of Jews during WWII. If not for these events no such compassion for the Jews would ever have existed. The point is simple. The Zionists have used their persecution in Europe to obtain a land illegally, that's right illegally, because the original League of Nations charter that provided the state of Israel was not a legal process. But they then use that position to persecute another people in another land. All I can say is at least Hitler didn't bullshit people. He didn't like Jews, and he made no bones about it. The Jews however feign an appearance of peace yet each and every time since the establishment of the state of Israel it has been the Palestinians who have been tolerant and who have attempted peaceful resolutions to conflict and at every turn Israel have either refused, tried to bully for more land, or simply failed in their obligations in each attempt at a peaceful resolution. The acquisition of 68% of the area that is today held by Israel has been taken with brutal force, has been taken illegally, without the consent of the UN and is rightfully being defended. Now I have absolutely no doubt that you will attempt an argument on one or all of these issues but your arguments will fall on deaf ears because what I have stated here is documented fact supported by over 1700 years of documented history. These are not opinions - these are facts! Oh and one last thing. You mentioned on about page 2 that the majority of DP have the same opinion as you. For what I can see there has only been perhaps 7 or 8 people in this thread. 2 or 3 of them have supported you. That hardly counts as a majority. And while we're on that subject bear in mind that Hitler was supported by a majority as was George W Bush.
awsome. Great, me too. Then your opinion on the Zionists is of small weight, isn't it? good. me too. This does not affect the validity of your arguments on the mainly political/historical conflict. So basically, you could skip all the bullshit introduction and get to the point: no, I can't "clearly" see that. no, It isn't. The authors of the text do not claim that "shooting on unarmed kids" is justified. You don't have to have a lot of "diplomas" to understand that. you just have to have little common sense. not true. The chapter deals solely with the american leftists. and this is also the purpose of point 3. I don't see why there will be a deviation out of the context and scope of the chapter to suddenly justify "shooting unarmed kids". No. It doesn't. The report is 116 pages long and this is the only sentence that toopac could find to arrive at a "acist, intolerant, evil and supremacist" report. I have a revolutionary suggestion: maybe the typist just forgot two " " , and then everything is settled: the sentence is like the rest of the report - just a "guide to how to make your arguments". No, he is just reading and using common sense, like myself. Great, go ahead. I never said that the Muslims are nomadic people. Houston.. we have a problem! (what are you talking about? are you insane?) Palestine is nothing more than a name of the piece of land between the Mediterranean sea and the jordan river. So it was since about the times of Christ until 2009. To my best knowledge, in the 19th century it was under ottoman (turkish) rule. Educate yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine The "Palestinian state" is a creation of your imagination. It says nothing to me because it never existed. Palestine was always changing hands. What are you talking about? are you insane? What are you talking about? My knowledge of the Quran and the Islamic culture is profound, I also speak Arabic fluently. If you think your knowledge comes somewhere close to mine - you are daydreaming. Daydreaming - again. example for you I suggest you consult a doctor. You are completely delusional. The French helped us build our nuclear power, not the American. if it exists. At that time, France was our closest Ally, and not the USA. And I can't see why it is "illegal". Probably, anything which is against your political opinion is "illegal". nice. The ship was called the USS Enterprise. It is true except for intention part, which is your wishful thinking, and it is not backed by any evidence. Once again. I didn't miss anything. I didn't miss anything. It was not always been clearly backed by the US. It is not clearly backed by the US at this very moment, and the US active engagement to help Israel started only in the late 70's. No, we can't say that. It is a conflict between two nations, the jewish nation and the Arab nation, who claims rights on Palestine. I don't think most Palestinians would appreciate it if you affiliate them with Iran. I suggest you exchange "on thousand and one nights" with a book of history as your bedtime book. I have just finished this book : http://www.amazon.com/History-Middle-East-Peter-Mansfield/dp/0143034332 , an american guy living in Jordan - pretty anti Israel book but its enough for your novice level. and LOL, no, you can't give ME a lesson on the history of Palestine - forget about it. LOL. Israel does not commit genocide. There were 1.4 million Palestinians in 1948 before the establishment of Israel. Today there are 5 million in Israel and another 5 million in other places. With 6 children/woman -> Gaza is one of the world's most fertile places. I wouldn't call that "genocide", if I care about how I sound. Have a read on the "genocide": 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Hamas attacks civilian targets and takes pride and joyfulness when civilians are killed. Street parties are thrown to celebrate the deaths. In Israel, we really feel sorry for every non-combatants that dies. you see? everything can be argued. What I do see is that you write a lot of rubbish. The state of Israel exists today because of Herzl and the zionists, the British, and many good people who came and make Palestine grow from sand to skyscrapers, from nomads villages to world class universities. Jews and Non-jews. Naturally, the Nazis were also a contributing factor, but not the main one, as you claim. Wasn't he a great guy? The Gaza stripe was evacuated in 2005. Unilaterally, hoping that it would improve the life quality of the Palestinians, reduce the number of unnecessary deaths, and bring some prospects for a future peace. Instead, the Hamas rose to power in Gaza not before butching 1000 Palestinians. If you like statistics, then you should know that between 2001-2005 vs. 2005-2009, the average daily rocket rate increase ten fold. This kinda makes you paragraph above look very silly and delusional. no? Could you explain the source of those interesting figures 68%, 2% and 70% from above? and what exactly to they represent? I'm thinking and I can't realize if you are speaking on something with is related with reality or is it your imagination, once again. I argue on everything and you stated no facts but rather fictions. Your knowledge of the history of Palestine is absolutely non-existent. OK, fine man. It was 3 of 4 of us against Toopac only at page 2. but nevermind. cheers m8. "well researched"
The state of Israel exists today because of Irgun,Haganah, Mossad ,ITF ( if I am not wrong one of founders is Ben-Gurion)and the Zionists. And cooparation of Nazis with Zionists
Chaos you claim to have diplomas? Then how come you can't even read properly, understand, comprehend nor debate without name calling, using strawman arguments nor even tell the truth? You cannot and I repeat cannot even quote that chapter and highlight the qualifier to shooting unarmed kids and highlight it can you? Are you still denying the sky is blue? Actually that's not the only one,the entire document 116 pages is justifying land grabbing, lying and giving dodgy facts. It tells one to dodge settlement issues, why? In fact the original document was actually "pro settlement" and "pro ethnic cleansing", did you read the article about Jews calling Obama an anti-semite? They eventually dropped it at the request of other groups because they felt it to be an hinderance, otherwise it would have been in there, it's not that don't support it just like shooting unarmed kids Also the guide recommends telling people a blue sky is green with red stripes, it's a propaganda guide as you admitted earlier Here, see the quote also or maybe the typist meant what they said, to suggest an alternative version to what you already claimed it was IE "out of context" suggests you know all to well it wasn't out of context in the first instance. Although I do know your constantly lie about it, I do persist as there is a chance no matter how slight that your mental capacity is limited. And besides that if you are indeed lying the more you continue denying it the more you look a fool (as if you have not done a good job already).
zionism is fundametally an orthodox relgiuos doctrine, which recenetly has put on a new nationalistic garb. Its thesis is that Judaism is a nation, a nation bound together by relgious.
Correct Toopac, and chaos will never admit to it. It seems to us that he not only wants to keep his true beliefs hidden but he also seems to want to hide the bulldozer statement under the rug, plus he is under the delusional belief that they are building even more settlements (against the UN Law) because of Hamas Attacks. Chaos either is really losing his reasoning capacity or he really is starting to believe his own deceptive statements. I heard they have good medication for thsi kind of stuff, I just cant think of it off the top of my head. If he really is secure in his lies then why does he keep using the strawman arguments ? Something doesnt seem right in Kansas. "zionism is fundametally an orthodox relgiuos doctrine, which recenetly has put on a new nationalistic garb. Its thesis is that Judaism is a nation, a nation bound together by relgious. " Ziya correct and as I have pointed out a million times the founder has the jewish faith at the core of zionism, so chaos has lost it, or as I am suspecting he is just trying to curry the favor of many different groups here. He also claims to have a PHD, lets make sure that future intellectual do not go there as they might also lose their capacity to be honest and lose their sense of reality lol.
Useless. Why not provide some useful facts and add something to the conversation. The personal attacks only strengthen the argument of your opposition because it looks like you have no response whatsoever. I just LOVE the juxtaposition of these two arguments side by side. 1) The majority on this thread are against you. 2) The majority are often wrong(read George W. Bush and Hitler) I know you didn't want your message to be that those on this thread who support Palestinians are wrong and comparable to those who supported Hitler, but that is certainly one possible deduction. Why don't you, with all your claimed education and knowledge of the subject, add some links to back up all of your claims. No, I'm not talking about Palestinian pity party links, claiming Israel is killing small children with tanks. There is a war going on in Palestine and there will be casualties on both sides, with the casualties marched out as martyrs with all the associated spin and propaganda. No I'm not talking about links showing Israel is illegally settling and occupying more land. It is an established fact Israeli settlers are trying to occupy more land to which they are not entitled. I'm talking about links to back your other claims, showing the Palestinians have always been the ones to try and work out a peaceful solution first. Showing the Palestinians are the original and rightful title holders to all the land currently occupied by the state of Israel. I don't claim to be as educated as either you or Chaos Trivia on the subject, but I've done a fair amount of reading on it, and from what I can tell, you are a straight up delusional crack smoker so convinced of your own delusions you have no need to provide a shred of evidence to back any of your claims.
Toopac, That was classic. , its funny how chaos acts like an atheist and then protects judaism in so many ways. I might not agree with atheists but at least atheists are honest about their beliefs and I am honest with mine. Chaos however is a mystery wrapped inside of riddle within an enigma. Obamanation, my assertions are facts, and most of the posters here whether they are religious or atheists have seen this contradiction and we need to point this out. By the way hows Obama doing with the money printing? Tell him that I want 1 trillion in monopoly money lol.
Fine, just post links so we can debate the sources of your facts, otherwise we are left to speculate they are your opinions. Granted! You simply need to register 5 thousand new voters who will vote Democrat in key battleground states, and we can embezzle, er grant you whatever you like.
Most of this stuff is not revolutionary and links to sources were provided, of course no matter the number of sources or the quality of them you'll still say "bah that's not what Fox news says!" I suggest you go to your local library and take out some books to study, not opinion pieces like Ann coulter either.
I can watch Al Jezeera and get the same information Fox puts out, with a slightly different spin. PingPing provided no links, just conjecture and insults. I can easily summarize the links you've provided to date: 1) Credible information from Amnesty International showing a human crisis in Palestine 2) Hate site and Conspiracy theory links showing the Jews are to blame for most of the problems mankind currently faces. These constitute the majority of links posted by you and yours. 3) Links to credible sites showing bits of information hinting at motive but providing no smoking gun for allegations made on sites in category 2. I'm pretty sure you got the links from the sites in category 2. 4) Propaganda links put out to focus the entire conversation on the humanitarian conditions of the Palestinians. Some of these links have mostly truthful information, some of them have partially truthful information, some of them have pure BS made up by Hamas to get people on board with the Palestinian pity party. The problem you have with people who think is that they, unlike you, recognize there are two sides to this conflict. They recognize Israel is dealing with an enemy that wants them wiped off the map. Sure, they also recognize many of Israels flaws, like the expansion of settlements, or aggressive tactics against the Palestinians. It keeps coming back to one basic and simple point you cant get past. Hamas Answer my question from the other thread. Have they acknowledged Israels right to exist yet?