U.S. State Department: Israel is not a tolerant society

I think you're missing the entire point.

You started this thread by stating, "Israel dismally fails the requirements of a tolerant pluralistic society, according to a new report from the U.S. State Department...any thoughts?"

My point is that the Haaretz article is not sourcing where they are getting the info, and they are giving a misleading impression. It's not that the U.S. State Department has decided to single out Israel for criticism in some "report", it's that they came out with the 2009 Report to Congress on International Religious Freedom which is very critical to every country. The U.S. State Department did not use the words in the title of your thread "U.S. State Department: Israel is not a tolerant society"...the U.S. State Department did not say the words, "Israel dismally fails the requirements of a tolerant pluralistic society" those are the words the Haaretz author chose to use. It may seem like a slight distinction to you, but I thought it was important to point out.

 

Where did anyone say in this thread or in the article that the report "singled out Israel"?

Haaretz is a well established and the oldest Israeli new paper, that's why they focused on Israel, they also made the title (not me), if you have issues with the title I would suggest that you email them and try to get it amended, you already posted your objections here on your other post, and I'm aware of them. I appreciate the direct link as well as I searched for it but failed to find it, thanks.

I do not find that there is anything wrong with the title in how the Haaretz newspaper described it, "U.S. State Department: Israel is not a tolerant society" is what Haaretz described the findings as, I and you should agree with that, I don't find it to be misleading, in fact it's accurate whether the US State Department used it or not, it's implied.

What would you call:

A tolerant society?

Israel met the requirements of a tolerant pluralistic society?


The Haaretz sourced information from the US State Department and reported about the problems found to the Israeli people, they can use any language to describe those findings as any reporter would.

If it makes you happy though the US State department didn't say Israeli is an intolerant society, their findings do (happy now?)

Another intolerant piece of manipulative work: Israeli Guide: How to hoodwink the world

Care to discuss how this impacts on the lives of non-Jewish peoples, or any part of the report at all?

 

I realize at this point that you're only interested in responses that validate your own bias, but I'll try one more time.

The annual Report on International Religious Freedom is a routine (annual) report on religious freedoms for every country. It's not a letter of praise and congratulations, it's focus is to be critical. As pointed out in a prior post, it's critical of every country, including places such as the UK, that we respect and consider to be a place of religious freedom.

Your statement:

is ridiculous because if you read each of those reports, that could be applied to any country. Journalists could put a spin on it and say -

US State department says France is an intolerant society!
US State department says Iran is an intolerant society!
US State department says UK is an intolerant society!
US State department says USA is an intolerant society!
US State department says the whole world is an intolerant society!

You could say for example, "The US is speaking out against the UK, condemning their anti-Semitism and islamophobia!!!" Out of context, and without explanation of the report, the people in the UK would think WTF? People in other countries that read that, may think "Hmmm, I guess the US does not respect the UK?"

That's why the Haaretz author should have included the source, because out of context, it suggests a different meaning.

 

People seem to forget the impossible circumstances of the state of Israel.
24% of the citizens are of the same people, sometimes family relatives of Israel's enemies.
The highest immigration rates of all countries in the world throughout its existence.
Completely secular modern jews (me) vs. ultra-orthodox middle ages jews - "Haredim" (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1258705152117)
It is holy to something like 10 world religions...
In the heart of the Arab world - It is an oasis in a huge desert of poor ignorant miserable and cruel dictatorships.

In Germany, in the 30's they had a financial disaster, so they voted for Hitler.
In USSR, in the 20's they had a financial disaster, so they voted for the Communists.
In Iran, again, the fundameal Islamists went to power in hard times. and many more examples.

When one is sated, it is easier to be democratic and tolerant.
When one is hungry and wars and terror are waged on him non-stop, it is harder.

Israel has gone through extremely hard times. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austerity_in_Israel
It was totally fragile from the inside and from the outside many times before.
The democracy is still alive.
In the Israeli democracy, a MP can go kiss with Israel's most bitter enemies and nothing will be done to him. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azmi_Bishara this Arab MP escapes trial for high treason not before he received a kidney from a jew...

This is our democracy.

In light of the above,
The Israel pluralism, democracy, and tolerance is not only "sufficient", but "miraculous".

The people of my country are simply admirably smart. From Austerity to 9 Nobel Prizes. We survived our impossible circumstances due to our extreme resourcefulness and cleverness. The Jewish people is not a people that will sit in "refugee camps" for 60 years and do nothing but cry for its fate. We make miracles with our hands and our brains, no oil here, no gas, nothing. Just a lot of extremely smart, talented people.

And all those who are jealous can choke on on their own jealousy.

 

Of course it's meant to be critical, it's meant to highlight problems.

Yes, but I explained the point (you didn't with Israel) and I don't think it would be too hard a concept to grasp for even the most intellectually dishonest, that there are racist and religious attacks all over the world.

Its no secret Muslims kill Christians for being Christian and Jews, Christians kill Muslims for being Christian and the Jews.

Whites attacks all races, blacks, Arabs, and Jews too. The same can be said for almost any group.

The UK for example was already discussed, I sure hope you know the difference between:

A minority of racist abuse to people by other people based on skin color, and also the fact religious Christians that moan about not being able to 'express religion at work'. To:

It's common when people feel attacked to say ok x happens but y happens here, it makes no difference esp when x and y are at the opposite ends of the spectrum and I defend neither.

 

I explained my point fully, which was that the Haaretz article is misleading.

You're suggesting I'm the one that is intellectually dishonest for explaining why this article is misleading? How is that intellectually dishonest? You start a thread by posting that article, and asking "any thoughts?" I gave you mine, which obviously wasn't what you wanted to hear.

Are you attempting to create a straw man argument by suggesting that I'm trying to deny that "there are racist and religious attacks all over the world?"

 

Ok, that was your main point along with the, UK thing, and all other countries have racists.

Not at all.

The problem arises when one tries to say UK, USA, AU, Israel are all as bad as each other based on racism and religious hatred coming from society.

The topic is obviously about Israel, thoughts about whether this report is correct or not and what really happens in Israel would be a good insight or why one doesn't believe it and why etc

Not the title is wrong (being the main point), or USA, UK is bad too.

No I am saying that that sort of thing should not even factor into to the discussion, because in that respect all countries are the same, so it's a non issue. Rather it should be about governmental policy, and religious policy esp in a Jewish country in the case of Israel.

 

Here is a little of the report and I mean I didn't scroll past what? 15% of the page:

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2009/127349.htm

 

The only point I was trying to make is that the Haaretz article is misleading. From reading your post, I know that you still don't really get it, and you're still attributing things to me I didn't say. My very first post in this thread was really all I wanted to say, but pretty much every one after that was just an attempt to get you to understand.

 

I understand you're point I already stated I did, your point is the US State department didn't say "they are an intolerant society", instead they issued this report which proves they are, Would you say that they are intolerant based on the report? or not?

I couldn't give a damn about the newspaper(and if it makes you feel better - it's misleading [in fact it is not in-depth]), Here's the facts, here's a few main points.

All my posts, after telling you I see your point, were simply to get you to understand the difference between Governmental, Religious (esp in a Jewish country) and societal (random racism/religious discrimination by members of the public).

 

After three detailed posts of why the article is misleading, you want to suggest my main point is that I didn't really like the title? Was that it? I give up. Have a nice evening...

 

And you talk about out of context? lol

What I was saying is basically don't shoot the messenger, discuss the content.

Regardless of the article (dismiss it totally as wrong, if it pleases), Here's the facts, here's a few main points.

 

Blowing own trumpet ...

you don't need to tell these things over and over again!
we already know that you are the 'chosen ones'
I guess you want to convey that you intolerance is justified as you are some special being ? right .. since this is all that you have conveyed in your post

I guess the only one here getting jealous here is US State dept

 

Yes, of course, extreme conditions, getting supported by the US financially and military as well as France and there secret banks and many many other western countries, as well as being supported by Arab regimes by protecting your borders.

Very very extreme conditions

 

So Dodara, you actually say that there is worldwide jewish-christian-muslim scam to screw the "Palestinians".
Interesting.
what else? the earth is flat?