I am going to get killed for this thread but here goes....

I totally understand your point of view. I know many, who feel the same way you do. I think a belief in "something", whether it can be defined or not, is better than a belief in nothing at all. You have faith that we are a small part of a bigger plan. That's not a bad thing.

 

Thank you

I'm accepting of other's beliefs until the point where they start harping on mine, in which case I have a bit of a problem. I don't like people telling me that what I believe in is "wrong," because in all honestly what I believe is real to me. Therefore, it doesn't matter what others think of my belief system.

 

guys, you have to be VERy careful about taking the bible literally. This is where religion takes over from faith and this is where division begins.

Which do you believe?

In the beginning was? The word, and the word was with God and the word WAS god.

or

Big bang theory!

WHo made the god, who made the gas?

E=MC2 energy can NOT be destroyed it can only be transferred, so therefore you can not create matter. I know some scientists are claiming they can create matter from nothing but if this is the case then who made the equipment to create matter from nothing?

He created heaven and earth (E=MC2) then he created light (dark does not exist remember it is simply the absence of light). And the dark was night and the light day. read the bible as many times as you like, and NOT ONCE does it say and the day shall be 24 hours (plus a few seconds) you have to Quantify day and night. (6 months a piece at the ends of the earth) . So this allows for the evolution process to roll out.

I will not go on, suffice to say that we are applying modern day thought to 15 billion year old happenings.

There is one thing that we ALL have, no matter how rich, how poor, how oppressed. Be we in a palace, or in jail. If we have thought then we have FREEDOM of thought, and no one should enforce their will on others.

Those who believe should believe, and those who do not have an equal right not to. To those who try to impose their belief that there is no god, I suggest you seriously sit down and ask yourself WHY? Why do you feel the need to have to question the belief of others.

I had a friend who was gay. I often went with him to bars where other gay people were. Some of my male friends asked me Why I went there when there were all those gays there who might take a fancy to me. My reply to them is the same as my reply to you.

I COULD go there without concern because my belief in my heterosexuality, and the FAITH that I would never be unfaithful to my wife meant I COULD got there without fear or concern.

I did not feel the need to ask them WHY they were gay!

 

Thank you!!!! I enjoyed what you had to say very much. You've pretty much hit the nail on the head with that one.

 

I think that the existance of a being who always is, was, and will be --far from being dissproven -- is necessary for there to be any life. Therefore, I don't agree with the premiss of your question

 

Well this topic is normally discussed in all the world..

Well lets start typing ,

Who created this universe
Who created the time
Who created life

The answer we dont know , but we do know one fact that there must be a thing "What we call god , allah " that must have started everything.

People ask this simple question Who created god then. The answer is sipmle ,God wasnt created it was before and after everything.

Man kind cannot express or explain things such like this at the commentery.

Its now what Darwin says Evolution what man kind is created from evolution this cant be true because we are nearly created perfect "Not perfect but nearly perfect".

So the bigbang cannot be exploded by its self this perfect because it actually is perfectly constructed. The gravitition etc...

 

That makes God an unnecessary term. Why not just say the universe wasn't created and be done with it?

What are you trying to say here? I'm completely lost as to your actual point.

 

Yeah, I totally didn't understand what you said either Alis. Your grammar is just a weeeeeeee bit off

 

@Person

Why ? Then please tell me what universe means in your own terms. Universe has no beggining has no end its unlimmited borders.

Im trying to say some terms cannot be expressed in words.
Some terms cannot be understood by our brain. (God , Allah)

The brain cannot understand how come something is created from nothing..

 

Correct. The mortal brain cannot understand the concept of infinity (especially in time) or anything past the 4th dimension really. (www.tenthdimension.com)

It is impossible for us to understand 0 to 10. We can understand 10 things to one, but not 0 things to 10.

 

Except that would require you to believe that God created man with language 15 billion years ago and the cave drawing we find today mean...?

For the same reason religious people oppress non-believers. Yes I used the word oppress. Believers do everything they can to make non-believers not fit in to their society. Ask any atheist to tell their christian friends he/she is an atheist. They will be looked at like something is wrong with them. Become an outcast and I guarantee at least one will try to save their soul (read force their beliefs on them). In this case you can't ask one side why they do what tehy do without asking the other the same question.

For every you I can provide as example a church full of people who would never associate with a gay person based on their "faith" that that person is an abomination before God and deserves to be outcast.

 

There comes a point where logic no longer provides further answers, and it comes to believing or not believing ...

 

George B. I am not saying that the garden of eden was created 15 billion years ago, or even that it was created as it was written down. We are talking about a book written in languages that had to be translated into new languages, after having been handed down by word of mouth for a long time. NO WAY can we take it at face value, for if we do we are reading the word of man rather than the word of God.

A true believer, with faith, should sit down and try to interpret what Man has written down.

We are applying modern day thinking to all of this.
I Totally agree with you with regard religious oppression, it is wrong wrong wrong. I have atheist friends, we respect each other, and I would NEVER dream of saying to them, 'I will pray for you' as I know it would offend them. Occasionally I get asked " do you really believe in all that shit? " I stand up to be counted and say yes, then answer questions and debate until the other person is happy they have enough opinion. I NEVER force the issue, as that is likely to have an adverse affect.

Again Sadly you are right that there are so many people in churches who are religious bigots , There are also more christian minded people in the world outside of religion than there are that go to church. Faith and belief is not about religion and going to church once a week for an hour or two. Faith and belief is about living your life right, doing the right thing (often very painful), helping others who need help or are less fortunate than you and considering your actions.

I can not speak for others, I can only lead by example, and as Gandhi said, " if you want to change the world, you must first change yourself". The world would be a much better place if people lived by the core rules of most faiths. they are peace love understanding and generosity

 

Unfortunately, human nature comes out and ruins everything.

 

Thank you, what you just said is the exact point I try to get across to religious zealots all the time but they don't seem to get it. Finally a person with faith that actually understands his faith flaws and all. See here's the issue you readily admit that the book is written by man, translated many times so a lot of the original intent was lost and with those translations came the influence and agenda of the translator.... So in modern terms... it's BS!

Now... given that point, why would you believe anything it says or base your faith on it?

But why would you be a true believer in a book you admit you can't believe in?

You're a good man OWG, one of the few, but a good man indeed.

And that's exactly where the religious and people like myself part ways. They don't understand that I can be just as good a person as they are and coincidentally live pretty much the same type of caring and thoughtful life they do without having to believe in magical beings and water walking.

Now I'll also make a consession here as well. I also readily admit that there's a lot we don't understand and what I call magical may not be. Heck I bet there were plenty of people that told the first guy to produce fire he was full of it. They probably thought fire was magic too. Now we have machines that can fly and computer networks that send data at the speed of light.

I won't say Amen, but I will say right on brotha!

 

Personally, it isn't believeing in the book itself (which is saturated with metaphors and contradictions), it's believing in what the book represents.

 

Lol, this is funny, let me "Try" and put it into context every religion will have there own. But let me try and go along with Everything here for a minute.

1. God created Adam and Eve on the last day and rested. In Gods time that could be 1 million years, it wouldnt be the same as earth time because there isnt a sun.
2. God said he took a rib from adam, and made Eve. Woman have one more Rib then Men do.
3. when Adam and Eve did the First "sin" Our bodies, were cursed and we started changing. That "Could" be why we do not look the same as we used to look.
4. I have no idea how this is said, but Either they "have" found Noahs, ark or they know where it is, I cant say for a fact, havent actually looked into it.
5. People used to speak the same exact language, When they tried to build some tower or whatever. Then they all split up, then there bodies changed to different races from the conditions they are living in.
6. Im going to skip the rest Because i dont feel like taking the time.
There has been sooo much stuff proved right in Revelation.

And the World universe could have been made with a big bang, may have been how God created it. Something must have created the ingredients, for the big bang theory to work he way they say it do. Another thing that has me wondering is in his ten commandments, it does say, Thou shalt have no other gods before me, I am a jealous god. Never did understand what he meant by that but oh well :-P

 

I read someones post about the Translation "I Agree" But! they have the original Bibles in Hebrew, the Scrolls, That is how they are doing the Bible Code, in the Old Testament, its pretty interesting, it predicted September 11 said the date, how many number of planes were hijacked how many number of planes, hit the towers said the name of the towers, how many people died On the Dot. and it was all right. that doesnt just happen

 

Actually, no they don't.
http://biology.clc.uc.edu/courses/bio105/ribs.htm
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060703111121AA6fps7

Actually, No they haven't. There's a little blob on a satellete image that "could", "possibly" be noah's ark if your a crackpot.

Sure. Where's the whore that rides around on the 7 headed beast?

Are you done spreading misinformation and lies now? It makes for a good fairy tale, but couldn't be any further from reality.

 

How do you know?
the big bang THEORY cannot be proved because its a THEORY-also if you study the big bang THEORY it tells you about how two gas atoms reacted-How did the gas get there cleverdick?