Looks like whatever Israel has been doing it is really working to save lives on both sites. I assume the top graph is Palestinian deaths and the bottom is Israeli deaths.
no. both are the israeli side. top is the wounded. i was looking to see how israel have reacted to decrease in the attacks,or the increase? have they increased the water supplied to palestanians? or decrease it as the number of attacks increased? i dont know? maybe you do. where is the cause and effect? the point being, that it was suggested that israel does this because of palestanian terrorism, if that is the case then there should be a relative change in amount of water supplied to the amount of terrorism.
There is no conclusion to be made from those limited graphs other then what is plainly shown that Israeli deaths and injuries have fallen since 2000. Any cause or effect of that reduction cannot be determined based on the limited info you posted.
sshhh yes. the people that say there is a connection, should be able to provide graphs and numbers to show a connection. i have not been able to find anything pointing to a relationship between the two. it seems that they do not want to waste it on arabs. did you read the amnesty article? what is your opinion on that?
I read the article, not the actual report. I don't see anything in that article that is a problem. Nowhere did I read any claims that any Palestinians were actually going without enough water. Some bs about Israelis have more water than the Palestinians. Well, shit happens when you elect terrorist like Hamas to run your country. Hamas is sworn to Israels destruiction and yet Israel still supplies them with water. Is Israel supposed to make sure Palestinians can have swimming pool while still attacking Israel and where Hamas is still sworn to their destruction. Hamas can cry me a fucking river. If they want water, stop importing weapons and spend their efforts helping the Palestinian people instead of fighting Israel. The Palestinian people need to take some responsibility for what is happening. If I punch my neighbor in the face and then ask for a cup of sugar, I would not expect them to kindly give it to me. Yet, Israel is still giving them water - just not more than is necessary. I have no problems with this. There are consequences for attacking your neighbor. I certainly think that Israel has a moral obligation, as we all do, not to let people die or suffer for a lack of water. That is of course why they continue to provide water. Maybe the Palestinians will have moral leaders who are more concerned with the well being of their people then trying to destroy Israel.
[/QUOTE] end of 2000: this is what started it, but it is not the only reason, it was built slowly before, caused by two main reasons: 1- settlements, which grow 53% since peace process started, in a clear sign that Israel is not serious about peace. 2- water, a report been made on September 1998 by Bteselem, in which it says: You can download the full report here this and some other reasons, like the so many check points that make it a daily suffer for Palestinians to reach their work, schools, universities, homes, and the humiliation, settlers attacks on Palestinians - all this and more started the cycle of violence again, Israel did not act to decrease it, but to increase it when they started their assassination policy, which led to more violence and suicide bombings: Israel's Assassination Policy Triggers Latest Suicide Bombings
we are not that far away. i also think palestanians making mistake and should make peace base on less land sooner peace. and i also think they should consider civil disobedience as their main strategy. and i also agree that israel has moral obligations. our main difference is i am willing to criticize israel more often than you do. after all they are the stronger party with almost total control =============================================================== @imad i believe all of these things that you say regardless of its validity does nothing to help your people. israel is stronger by far, both military and political and even in public relation venues. i believe that you need to make peace more than they do. and i believe this hope of someday this situation will change is robbing you of valuable time. whatever you give-up to make peace with israel as soon as possible, you are going to makeup in time that requires for you to gain it at the peace table. this freeze in settlement and supposedly right of return the way you see it, is costing you a lot more than being pragmatic and realist can possibly. you should enter in negotiations now. at the end there should be a referendum as to its acceptance. your people can reject it at that time. but even if you do not do that you must stop all violence. you must act like indians did to england.
The mistake that Palestinian made was accepting less land before the peace negotiation starts, by recognizing Israel even though Israel violates its admission to UN, which makes it illegal state, by recognizing the illegal state of Israel Palestinians sacrificed more than 50% of their own historical land for peace, do not expect them to sacrifice more. civil disobedience to whom exactly? if you mean Palestinian authority, which promised them a pinky world after Oslo? then why civil disobediance them when they can oust them in a democratic election, this is what happened when Palestinians voted for Hamas, and you know the result. if you mean the illegal state of Israel, then since when did Palestinians obey occupation? they been resisting it since long, throw peaceful means first, which led to nothing, it is normal and a right then, to resort to armed struggle. both ways, whether been peaceful in their struggle as they been for long before, or armed struggle, they are being killed, so why not take the cause of their suffer to hell as they die? by armed struggle.
civil disobedience like in india. no violence in the face of violence. like MLK. many of you might still get hurt but that is the price. no stone no fires no screaming. just silent marches. larger the better. all over the place every day. no violence no matter what they do
@brown i do see some part of the article that talks about problems in regard to amount of water that is available to palesranians, and how it effects their life in a negative way. although no swimming pools are required, there is a minimum of standard that must be kept, and if it worries amnesty then it worries me
I have no problems criticizing Israel. I do certainly criticize Hamas far mopre often because I think there is a fundamental difference. Israel actions are to protect its citizens. Hamas actions are to attack Israeli civilians. It is the INTENT that matters. Although I certainly agree that Palestinians, especially the ones who just want to live in peace and take care of their families, bear the brunt of this conflict. I could not agree more. This would be the fastest, surest, and most peaceful way for the Palestinians to achieve their goals. I think it is somewhat sad that imad will justify Palestinian violence against Israel because a Jew he does not like dared visit someplace in Israel. That type of thinking is a guarantee that the Palestinians will never control areas that both sides claim a right to. I always read that it is near a crisis point, or causes hardship, but not that people are dying from lack of water. I certainly sympathize with the Palestinian people, but I think their solution is to look to their leadership. Seriously, do you think that Hamas is trying to make peace with Israel? If I were Israel I would do nothing to make Hamas' rule a success. They are terrorists and deserve to be treated as such.
i certainly hope that this water restriction is not part of that "transfer" that our young israeli member was promoting a few months back. as far as hamas vs israel i hope you realize that hamas is considered a terrorist organization and under sanction while israel is considered a democracy and a friend. and based on this difference one expect a much better conduct from israel. good news is Yankees are winning
Palestinians do not see in Sharon a "Jew" for maybe the 100's time, stop trying to paint all Jews as Zionists, Palestinians and others see in Sharon a terrorist, and war criminal, who should be in prison, since very long, and not free to provoke and cause more crimes and killing, besides you turned a blind eye on the illegal settlements, and water problem, this was also a reason that led to violence, did you read that report, I bet you did not, browntwn is an example of the Zionist mentality, he sees nothing wrong in having Palestinians with almost no water during summer, while settlers are having swimming pools, this is a source of hate, if you want to call it antisemitism, let it be, but do not blame Palestinians and Muslims, who had long history of peaceful coexistence with Jews for centuries, browntwn see no problem in intensifying illegal settlements while negotiations take place, did you ask yourself browntwn what left to negotiate about when settlements grow by 53% during negotiations? he sees noting wrong Sharon did, not Qibya massacre: not Sabra and Shatilla massacares.. he does not see anything wrong in this, he sees in Sharon an innocent Jew you are inviting people to hate Jews by calling this man a "Jew", browntwn and Zionists in general, do not want peace, but want to throw accusations, provoke killing, then cry antisemitism, because peace means no more lands stealing from Palestinians, no more settlements building, no more forcing Palestinians to work in low jobs in Israel because this is the only option they have to feed their families, peace for Israel means no more water and resources stealing, this is why peace is not an option for Israel and they will always put obstacles in its way, before, Arafat was the only obstacle, before Arafat the only obstacle was Palestinians are not ready to negotiate, after Arafat been assassinated, it was hamas and elections, and many more excuses.. and when there was finally ONE political man ready for real peace in Israel (Rabin) they assassinated him. Palestinians since long, were ready to work side by side with Israeli peace lovers, like betselem, but those have no voice in Israel, when the media there keep feeding hate, and provoke violence so criminals like Sharon, Shamir, Netanyahu, Olmert can reach power there. @pizzaman, you always try to address the symptoms not the cause, there is violence, because there is occupation, armed struggle is a right, not you, nor anybody can take it from Palestinians, the only way to stop it, is in ending occupation.
@imad i do not look at the cause of the problem, that is correct but i do not look at the symptoms either. i look at a way to end the problem. it is not good enough to fight for your freedom. it is more important to win your freedom.
knowing the cause is half the solution, if you can find a solution without knowing the cause, I m sure many will be interested in knowing it, your way, is to peaceful protest like Ghandi did in India, this is addressing the armed struggle, which is a symptom, forgetting that Palestinians did not hold arms in the beginning and their struggle was peaceful for long, no arms, no protests, then it started with protests, then it became violent, after the peaceful ways, UN paths and negotiations, led to nothing, did you hear about the longest strike in history? what did it bring to Palestinians? nothing, killing, stealing, continued.. you are saying, Palestinians should go back to the beginning, what makes you think that it will work this time? and not open the door to build more, then make any future solution more complicated with all Palestinian land covered with these wasps nests that is called settlements?
Here, here but the fact is they are suffering from lack of water. Amnesty International is a humans rights organisation and has criticised arabs just as harsh such as unfair trials in UAE, there is no reason for them to lie, they are not Jew or zionist haters.
I am not sure I agree that they are suffering from lack of water. Can you explain to me exactly how you think the Palestinians are suffering? Can you explain to me why many water projects which have been approved are not being built by the Palestinians? Can you explain why Hamas can run hundreds of tunnels into Egypt allowing all manner of goods and weapons but is unable to get water for their people. So long as Hamas is spending money and effort to bring in weapons I will have little sympathy for their complaints that Israel is not helping them. That being said, I think Israel has an obligation to make sure the Palestinians are not dying or suffering from a lack of water. From what I have read, in this article and others, I do not think they currently are. I am open to changing my mind, what suffering is really going on? I used to be a supporting member of Amnesty International. I am not any more. You have much more respect for them than I do. Maybe in the future you will change your mind like I did. I found it amusing that they are claiming the Olso Accord is somehow the problem - an agreement made by the Palestinians. It is the Palestinians who refuse to sit with Israel and negotiate anything, so how exactly does AI propose to resolve this issue?
They can bring water from Egypt to drink, nobody will die from thirst, but they can't bring enough water for bathing, cleaning, corps, and animals, got it browntwn, or you will choose to keep denying the problem, you are either crying antisemitism, or crying to blame Palestinians, nothing else can be understood from your posts. Either playing smart when it is about Jews, to a degree where you can sense antisemitism when there is no antisemitism, or you play dumb when it is about Palestinians, to a degree where you do not see what is obvious. Palestinians want to be free, they do not want neither war, nor peace with Israel, they want Israel, to go behind 1967 line, and after that they want to forget that there was Israel, the last thing they will want to see then after Israel withdraw from West Bank and Gaza, will be an Israeli. I do not see what even to negotiate about? it is clear, but of course Israel, will hate it so much to give back what they stole.
You see that's the problem. The arabs don't even recognize Israel's right to exist. You have Hamas a terrorist organizations that has targeted civilians as it's head. Israel is a tiny bit of land. The size of NJ, while the arab countries about the size of the US. And you want Israel to give more of the little land it has to people who have sworn to destroy the whole country. To do so would only be Israel committing suicide. It needs the little land it has to protect itself. If the arab countries truely cared about the the "Palestinians" they would invite them back into their countries. Most of the "palestinians" are jordanians. However, they don't truely care about these fellow arabs. They are using them as a weapon against Israel. Amnestly Int'l is a far left wing organization. It is not unbiased. I don't care what it says because it is very pro arabiast biased. I don't hear a report them regarding Hamas and the bombs they plant on civilian buses, trains, market places, etc. The fact is water is limited, because Israel has a water shortage. The PA agreed to not digging well and tapping into Israel's main water supply as part of the Oslo Accords. Israel supplies the areas in judea and samaria with more than they agreed to in the Oslo Accords. Despite their shortage they also supply Jordan, and S. Lebanon. It's a bogus report.