Wow. Where do you live? I take it that you and your friends are quite racist. I have yet to hear someone say they don't like him because of the color of his skin. Sad that there are people like that.
I guess that means that he's not considered good or bad... just that he's considered consistently mediocre? WHO??? WHO are these people? WHO??? Are you dreaming these imaginary racists? WHO??? Shame on you. Why would that be a cause for celebration? A cause for celebration would be unemployment is dropping. That's a cause for celebration, right? Or the troops pulling out of Iraq and/or Afghanistan while leaving behind stable democracies. THESE are causes for celebration. Wouldn't you agree? As I'd said before, repeatedly - a Presidential approval rating is really kinda meaningless, isn't it? If you listen to the left, Presidents Bush and Truman got everything they wanted DESPITE low approval ratings - right?
I know a lot of people against Obama but not a single one that has given any indication of it being related to him being black. Some purely because he's a Democrat, and some for his policies, past, experience, and many other things. However, I know multiple people personally that support Obama BECAUSE he's black and either: 1) They feel it's time for a black person to be the President. 2) They're black and feel just because he's black he will somehow make their lives better. 3) They're not black and feel blacks are repressed and since he's black he will fix this. Many of these people don't follow politics or have a clue of what his policies are. I don't debate with them, but pick up on it through casual talking because I find it interesting. Of course this doesn't cover everyone I know, but I can only speak of what I've seen having friends from living in 8 different states over the past 15 years (Indiana, Tennessee, Arizona, California, Massachusetts, Florida, North Carolina, and Texas) that I keep in touch with, people I work with, and in the neighborhood, and @ the gym. While I don't doubt there are people that are against Obama for being black just as there were people against Bush because he was a southern redneck. But to ignore the fact that there is an opposite group of people that are FOR the person because they're a redneck or black is just cherry picking what you see.
It's amazing to me how Obama keeps dropping to 50% and keeps bouncing back up off that floor. It happened again when he dropped to 50% on Tuesday and is now back up to 53%. He seems to have a real solid floor at 50%... if that's true then that is very very good news for Obama because he simply cannot be defeated for a second term as long as that approval rating stays at 50% or higher.
@debunked @corwin @reseg I'm going to pretend that you are being purposely obtuse... I'm going to assume with all my strength that you are not so far gone that you have convinced yourselves that a single one of the SEVERAL MILLION strong members of say the KKK or any of the multiple factions of skin heads would vote for a black president or approve of the job he is doing. I have to pretend that your shock and outrage that I would suggest such a thing was intended to be a joke.... Otherwise I may summarily dismiss any further posts you make on this forum as the rantings of a mentally challenged individual. So setting those millions aside.... I'll explain to you that what I was thinking of when I said that was an instance back during the Democratic primary. You probably missed it because it wasn't reported on Fox News ... What happened was during voting in the Democratic primary, whites exiting the polls after voting flat out told exit pollers with clip boards in their hands that they voted against Obama because of race. So the point I was making is that even with that (and those are just the racists bold enough to admit it to your face!) and all that's going on he's still at 50%. I agree with you Reseg, I happen to know personally quite a few people (white and black) who voted for Obama because he is black. But the way you guys came in here and tried to pretend like you had no idea who these racist people are of which I speak was fucking comedy. Thanks for the laugh.
Wait, the KKK has millions of members? This site says it has up to 5,000 total members in the US and Wikipedia says 6,000 They're likely all conservative and wouldn't vote for him regardless of his color. Him being black just gave them even more desire to be against him, but I'd not say it's THE reason they voted against him and otherwise they would have voted for him. And the thing I wanted to address is all the talk about people voting against JUST because he's black. I'm not ignorant of racism being around on all sides, but I think you're stretching it by a LOT as far as the #s out there and being so one sided.
Where are these "SEVERAL MILLION strong members of say the KKK"? There seems to be less than 6,000 of them, relegating them to an insignificant voting block. You wrote "a large chunk of the population". The KKK and skinheads are NOT "a large chunk of the population". They are a small, meaningless minority. Where are your figures claiming that there are "SEVERAL MILLION strong members of say the KKK". SEVERAL MILLION????????? WHERE are you getting your figures from? WHERE??? HOW can you claim that "SEVERAL MILLION" people are against Obama because they are racists? Even Obama disagrees with that!!! WHERE are your figures? Cite, Please!
Not asking George this one ---> Does anywhere here take GeorgieB serious now? (If so, ask yourself why?) * Democratic primary - and I thought no democrat was racist? hmmm * You are trying to put your racism on me? Interesting. Tell that to my friends, mother-in-law, wife, etc... they would laugh as much as I did. * Do any of your friends have hair or are all of them part of this millions of kkk? Do yourself a favor and admit you have a problem, I hear its the first step in recovery.
There are people in my extended family who are racists who hate obama and think he's either a muslim, illegal alien or both. Have they come out and said, I hate Obama because he's black? No. But they've demonstrated in the past to be racists before anyone ever knew who Obama was. A baptist minister from Mississippi of a church that my mom and dad briefly went to, told my dad a racist joke about Obama during the campaign last year. My Dad was raised in the south, has a southern accent, I guess he just thought he was one of the good ol' boys. One of my extended family members sent me the obamacare pic with obama dressed up like a witch doctor. This may or may not have racial overtones, but the fact is that she's one of the mensa types that thinks he's a muslim and an illegal alien. I live in republican/jesus land. I'm surrounded by these people. It's hard to believe that actual republicans haven't encountered these people and I have. The south used to be almost all democrat until the democratic party started pushing the civil rights movement. The south turned pretty much completely republican within about ten years -- after solidly supporting the democratic party for about the previous 100 years. West Virginia is probably a holdover of those Dixiecrat types. But yes, some democrats are racist too. Some of the people I mentioned in my last post are lifelong democrats.
Its sad to say that such heated discussion is taking place. the point that one should not forget is that he will remain the president till his term ends. About him being re elected, thats close to none.
Well first of all I can admit when I'm wrong. I did a quick google and saw 4-5 million quoted in the descriptions google had and wrote that in the middle of writing my post. Had I taken the time to fully read the quote I would have seen that those number were from when the KKK was at its peak in the late 20s early 30s. However comma.... few things I need to point out/address. 1) The absolutely hysterical way you all jumped on that one point and completely ignored the overall issue. One of you (debunked ) even laughably tried to take it so far as to say people shouldn't take me seriously because of it. Wishful thinking and a bit sad. It reeks of desperation to quickly dismiss and discredit what I'm saying because you don't have a real argument against it. You guys are so far off on the fringe on this one that your best counter argument to the valid point I'm making is literally to try to jump on the mistake I made when I said MILLIONS. It was a side point........... Hell I even minimized it by saying "putting aside" those numbers and went on to further back up my point but you're so intellectually dishonest with yourselves about this you purposely ignored it 2) @debunked - could you please explain to me how me making the point about Obama's ratings still being at 50% even with all that's going on and the fact that there are people in this country who are against him because he's black is "putting my racism on you"? 3) @reseg The 5,000 - 8,000 numbers you mentioned seem about right for the KKK proper. But what they don't count are the large amount of splinter groups that are associated with the KKK/Neo Nazi movement and just call themselves different names. Have a look at this list. It includes a few non-white supremacist hate groups such as the Nation of Islam and New Black Panther Party (12). But the rest are all white separatist groups and KKK/Neo Nazi groups that try to use less threatening names like the "Christian Identity" group and the National Socialist Movement. It's a good thing that these idiots are scattering like cockroaches but the fact that their groups are smaller (and more secretive about their numbers) also makes them harder to track and get a count on.. And my previous statement merits repeating... "and those are just the racists bold enough to say it to your face". Also just to be helpful, I think corwin and debunked were so blinded by outrage over me incorrectly saying million that they missed this link and quote.... so here it is again! Feel free to actually comment on it this time!
1. I wasn't really saying much about the millions, I may have read your last message wrong trying to say I was a racist. I just reread it and saw the @debunked and I misunderstood the first time. Sorry. 2. see #1 - again having to do with thinking you called me a racist. 3. (after seeing #1) I had no outrage about the millions, I just thought it was funny, my points didn't have to do with your count. And your link confirms what I write to logic - see the last sentence. Logicflux sounds like he has the oversensitive thing going on. When no one can make a joke about the big O without being called racist is just sad. I am just as sickened by the crowd who calls EVERYTHING racist when it is towards Obama as do real racists. The double standards are so blatant and are just as harmful. So, logic, do you really believe that because someone thinks he was born in Kenya it makes them a racist? Or because they don't agree with his socialistic policies it makes them a racist? Or because a comic was drawn of him as a witch doctor, it is racist? I know people of different skin colors from light to dark that don't like Obama's thinking and none of them care what color his skin is. What I see in this discussion and so many others is that the racist remarks towards "republican" or "conservatives" is either a card thrown when no defense can be established or the person saying it has deep rooted racist thinking that he can't get rid of but by placing it on his opponent.
The reality here is that those calling people racist, are the racists. I think the whole race thing in America has gotten WAY out of hand. So much so that people go out of their way to say they are not racist by calling others racist because they do not like to adhere to the PC vernacular of the day. I found it comical and absurd when Harry Conick Jr. had a shit fit about the Jackson Face in Black Face routine. Australians do not have this ridiculous sense of self loathing and misogynistic white guilt that forces everyone who is not black to atone for the past sins of history. Am I a racist because I refuse to do the same? I'd argue no. I think its disingenuous, condescending, arrogant and ultimately RACIST to overly attempt to atone for something I had no part in. I'm not going to apologize for not being black. That's something I see people do every day. I don't care what color a person is. Never have. I guess I was brought up differently. Too many people here portray those of a different opinion than the president as white power south red necks. The reality is you are talking to someone that is Italian, German, Spanish and American Indian. In that order. I grew up in St. Louis when the schools were being integrated. Want to talk about a tumultuous time... I really do not ever recall hearing the N word until years later. It probably existed, but I sure do not remember it. And I certainly do not remember anyone giving a shit what color anyone was. I'd be willing to bet most of the morons here calling me and others racist never went to school in a mixed environment. Do not live in a mixed community. Do not have friends of race, and most certainly do not have Black relatives, WHICH I DO. It really amazes me how offended someone will get in conversation when race is at issue. What amazes me more is when I see the same people that will bitch about a comment or off color joke will go off on their high horse about how wrong that is, then in the same breath say something worse - and mean it. Those of you here calling people racist are fucking cowards and hypocrites. I think DP should institute a ban on those that do it. Doing so serves not useful purpose here and is a blatant form of harassment. I believe the rules here already forbid harassing members. The mods here should be ashamed for letting this crap continue. Its turned P&R into a complete cesspit.
So, I am not the only one COMPLETELY fed up with the racist crap. I wouldn't be married to this wonderful woman if I had a racist bone in my body. (Darn I would have to hate my kids as well!)
What bothers me more about this is that I now feel I have to delve into my own ethnicity, that of my family, and others to defend this unfounded claims. It's extremely offensive, and I've let it roll of my shoulders for a LONG, LONG time. I guess I am saying I've had enough. I really think I'd rather leave here than put up with the crap anymore.
I do think there is a lot of overlap between so called "conservatives" (I don't think that term really fits...) who would hate Obama because of his politics regardless of his race (ie, they hated Clinton too) and those who would hate Obama because of his race. In fact, I'd say there's a huge amount of overlap between the two. If I was a "conservative" I wouldn't take much pride in being in with that lot... On the other hand, I do think there are some "conservative Democrats" or "moderates" who probably were fine with Clinton but who have found some rather unusual reasons to hate Obama. Those people clearly are motivated by race.
I'm far from oversensitive. It wasn't just a joke that happened to be about a black guy. It was a overtly racist joke. I know you might not like hearing the truth, but so what? I think certain beliefs are highly correlated or grouped together. I look at it more as a general sort of xenophobia than specifically racism. But one of my family members proclaimed that "I'm not voting for that muslim". He's a lifelong union working democrat who I also know to be a racist. Stop distorting the conversation. Neither George nor I said there weren't good reasons to disagree with Obama. Well I can't speak for George. But I'm sure most of the people who don't like Obama don't like him for reasons that have nothing to do with race. But there is a large minority out there for whom race is a factor. I've witnessed unequivocal racism and a more broader sort of xenophobia. Yeah well neither of those apply to me, thank you. PS. I've not seen anything I believe to be racist in the P&R forums. But most of the people I'm talking about can't really even use a computer. (probably mostly because of their age and not IQ, because I know a lot of younger people for whom low IQ seems to not be such a barrier)
Its about a difference of opinion, not hate. I'm perplexed as much by the assumption of hate with regard to differing opinions as I am with the race baiting. I remember when Lewis Black in one of his comedy routines stated that "just because you are not in favor of the war, does not mean you are against it.". We all have a common goal, there's just a difference of opinion about how we obtain it.
I'd say that there are Democrats that would never, ever, vote for a Republican and there are Republicans that would never, ever vote for a Democrat. These people don't believe in Democracy, they worship a party aristocracy. Zibby is an example of that. Party loyalty can give one a feeling of belonging. But when the other party becomes the enemy and words like "hate" are thrown around (like Zibby is doing) is when party loyalty becomes something ugly - and dangerous. Zibby is one of those people. It's the "my party good, other party bad" mentality that is responsible for strangling democracy in favor of blind party loyalty. History has shown how destructive blind party loyalty eventually becomes.
Nonsense. It has nothing to do with supporting a "party aristocracy" and everything to do with supporting certain ideals (in my case that means (1) diplomacy instead of war (2) civil liberties (3) an economy that works for everyone instead of just the rich (4) basic social security - such as health care for all and education for all) I supported Ron Paul (a Republican) because he's with me on the first 2 issues, unfortunately, he is not with me on the last 2 and realizing the importance of that has soured me on him. I don't support "blue dog Democrats" even though they are Democrats because I find that I disagree with them on too many issues. I most strongly support progressive Democrats like Dennis Kucinich and Alan Grayson. And then I support moderate Democrats like Barack Obama because they're the ones that can get elected in general elections. At least for now... hopefully the country will move left and we can get a truly progressive Democrat in the White House (or Obama will move left... I hope.) --- BTW, on topic: Obama moved back up to 54% yesterday... Last time he hit 54% he started heading back down towards 50. I'm hopeful he breakthrough in the positive direction at some point. --- For comparison's sake: The Republican Party Has 8% Approval Among Those Born After 1980. Obama has 77% approval among the same age group. What's this mean? The young people of today have completely rejected the Republican party and everything it stands for. What's that mean for the future of the GOP? DOOMED.