Hezbollah's guerilla tactics complicate ground war

Discussion in 'Politics & Religion' started by Rick_Michael, Aug 11, 2006.

  1. #1
    "They're not just a terrorist organization," says General Ido Nehushtan at an IDF briefing in northern Israel Thursday. "They are a terrorist army built by
    Syria and
    Iran."


    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    http://hotzone.yahoo.com/b/hotzone/blogs8398

    WEST GALILEE,
    Israel - Major Lior Taylor is no stranger to combat in Lebanon. He served in an anti-tank platoon in the famed Golani Brigade in the years following Israel's first invasion in 1982.

    Now, at 38, Taylor is one of the operations officers for the Israeli army's 609th Reserve Infantry, a unit that has already seen plenty of action in south Lebanon, reportedly killing 60 Hezbollah fighters and capturing 10 — so far — without losing a single soldier of its own.

    "It's the same Lebanon, it's the same terrain," he says. "The difference is in the quantity and quality of the weapons we face."


    Most deadly for the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF), Taylor says, is the broad range of anti-tank missiles Hezbollah has acquired, including American-made TOWs, which they buy on the black market.

    "Some of the stuff they have is brand new, right out of the box," says Taylor. "We found a weapons cache in Ras Bayada, four TOW anti-tank missiles sitting right next to a launcher. The control box was still wrapped in nylon from its shipping container."

    Trained in using the TOW, Taylor says he did the standard seven-point check for launching and within moments the weapon was ready to fire.

    He says fighting Hezbollah is anything but straightforward. They are a militia, but have the discipline of a foreign-trained army, which is how the IDF classifies them.

    "They're not just a terrorist organization," says General Ido Nehushtan at an IDF briefing in northern Israel Thursday. "They are a terrorist army built by
    Syria and
    Iran."

    "It's complicated," Taylor adds, speaking from personal experience. "It's not army versus army warfare. They do have an organized fighting doctrine but it's not based on making contact. It's more of guerrilla warfare tactics. They want to draw you into an area where they have booby traps and they can use their anti-tank missiles."

    Those anti-tank missiles have been blamed for the bulk of IDF casualties in southern Lebanon, as Hezbollah fighters have used them both against tanks but also against houses and buildings where IDF forces take shelter.

    Taylor says the one tactical area where the IDF has been particularly effective is also the area where they've been the most criticized: Attacks on villages where they believe Hezbollah supplies are stockpiled.

    "The villages are used as logistic bases," he says, "but they usually fight from bunkers in outlying areas. They have tunnel systems with camouflaged entry points where they can enter in one place and exit somewhere else. We've been fairly successful at cutting off the supplies from the villages, which forces them to come out eventually."

    The way to fight Hezbollah, he says, is to outlast them in a war of nerves.

    "The name of the game is patience," says Taylor. "You have to be methodical, moving forward slowly and see who makes the first mistake, then capitalize on it."

    At this base in western Galilee, reserve soldiers lay in cots in the operations center catching some sleep between missions. Others play cards outside or, like soldiers all over the world, sit around smoking cigarettes, talking about their lives back home.

    Most of them had to leave their work and families behind quickly after getting what's called "Emergency Call Up Order 8," the order that almost instantly transformed them from civilians to soldiers.

    IDF spokesman and reservist Manny Socolovsky, who fought with Taylor in the Golani Brigade in the 80s, says that reservists call it "flipping the bowl."

    "It's like you have this nice table set," says Socolovsky, "plates and napkins and nice bowls filled with food. Then all of a sudden they're turned upside down and the whole thing is a mess. Like you've pulled out the tablecloth from under it all."

    "Emergency Call Up Order 8 — this is a rare animal that is both particular and peculiar to Israeli society," says Taylor. "It's understood they don't use this for superfluous reasons. If you get one, the gravity of it makes the switch for you.

    "It's not an easy moment." he says. "It's a defining moment in your life. It will be the difference between everything that came before and everything that came after."

    A month into the offensive, Taylor himself looks tired and war-weary.

    He has left a job with a multi-national company, a wife and three children back home in Haifa for a life of combat missions in the hills and valleys of south Lebanon and "hot-racking" back at base — sleeping in shifts on whatever cot is available.

    Still, he believes the sacrifices are not only worth it, but essential for the preservation of Israel.

    "This is like a test case," Taylor says. "[Hezbollah] interprets an open society as a weak society. Our response has to be definitive."
    Photos

    Israeli reserve units: civilians turned soldiers» View

    Socolovsky agrees and brings up what Israelis refer to as the "cobweb speech" made by Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah a few years back in the city of Bent Jbail.

    "He said Israel was like a cobweb," says Socolovsky, "that it looks like a net, but if you touch it with your hand it falls apart."

    The two reservists say Israel can't afford to let that perception go unchallenged.

    Socolovsky, like Taylor, is making sacrifices, but his are even more personal. His oldest son is in a combat brigade currently fighting inside Lebanon. As a spokesman, Socolovsky could stay in a hotel room in northern Israel, but chooses to sleep in his car and eats only one meal a day, breakfast, out of a sense of solidarity with his son. He says he would change places with him if he could.

    "My wife says she got a [text] message from him today," Socolovksy says. "Now we're both relieved."

    It is the kind of anxiety and concern that afflicts all in this conflict, regardless of their role and which side of the border they're on.

    "If there's one thing that pains me about all this," says Taylor, becoming circumspect, "it's the fate of the Lebanese people. Medieval-thinking forces have dragged them into this. If they could be masters of their own destiny, I know there would be peace. But instead of progress and enlightenment these forces drag the Lebanese into darkness."

    On the roof of the operations center, covered with machine gun and 40mm grenade shell casings, we look across the valley into south Lebanon.

    Taylor points out a pile of rubble on a hilltop in Lebanon directly across from us with an Israeli flag flying above it. He says it used to be a Hezbollah command post, which the IDF destroyed when the fighting broke out.

    Regardless of that small victory, this war is still on the cusp. As Israel masses tanks, armored personnel carriers and soldiers along the border, it has decided to pause for a few days before committing them to the fight, giving diplomacy one final chance to gain traction.

    And even if it does, people like Taylor and Socolovsky may not be going back to their civilian lives anytime soon.

    "This is not a war for days or weeks," Nehushtan said during his briefing. "This is a war against terrorism. And since Hezbollah has no responsibilities to any country, you won't see them waving any white flags."
     
    Rick_Michael, Aug 11, 2006 IP
  2. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

    Messages:
    12,206
    Likes Received:
    601
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    260
    #2
    lorien1973, Aug 11, 2006 IP
  3. Rick_Michael

    Rick_Michael Peon

    Messages:
    2,744
    Likes Received:
    41
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #3
    Peacekeepers are bs....they didn't do well, in Rwanda, nor will they do well there...if that truely is the case. They need an international coalition to preven t any militant behaviour in that region, and only allow Lebanon forces in that area.
     
    Rick_Michael, Aug 11, 2006 IP
  4. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

    Messages:
    15,836
    Likes Received:
    571
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #4
    Nothing more than a hudna. A tactical ceasefire to benefit weak muslims so they can regroup and come back stronger.
     
    GTech, Aug 11, 2006 IP
  5. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

    Messages:
    12,206
    Likes Received:
    601
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    260
    #5
    Anyone have the text of 1701? I've read that the resolution address Hezbollah and Israel (as if they are equals, not a terrorist organization and a country). Seems odd (and disturbing) that they'd give hezbollah legitimacy by directly naming them as an equal to an actual country.
     
    lorien1973, Aug 11, 2006 IP
  6. yo-yo

    yo-yo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,619
    Likes Received:
    206
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    185
    #6
    What's odd is that a country funded by the US, capable of massacring civilians without blinking, can't seem to defeat or even slow down what gtech describes as "weak muslims" :eek: :D
     
    yo-yo, Aug 11, 2006 IP
  7. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

    Messages:
    15,836
    Likes Received:
    571
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #7
    The term comes from the link provided. Your buds have been defeated all along. Anytime your friends have to hide behind civilians and the UN, stage photo ops and outright fabricate photos, they've lost. I guess these are the things you admire most about them ;)
     
    GTech, Aug 11, 2006 IP
  8. yo-yo

    yo-yo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,619
    Likes Received:
    206
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    185
    #8
    Israel can't seem to stop those rockets, can't seem to stop Hezbullahs attacks, and can't seem to kill Narrallah... so what exactly have they accomplished? Blowing up beruit and murderring 1000 civilians. That's about it.

    And what does that say about Israel? If they can't even stop, what your own words describe as "weak" muslims? That's not looking good for the war on terorr buddy.
     
    yo-yo, Aug 11, 2006 IP
  9. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

    Messages:
    15,836
    Likes Received:
    571
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #9
    Well, let's see, your bud nasrallah is hiding in the Iranian embassy last time I checked. I'm sure you are proud of him for that ;)

    I believe it was your buds, hezbollah, who hid behind women, children and the UN. And since you fail to recognize that, continuously, it shows that you do not hate both sides equally, as you once stated. In fact, it clearly shows which side you have chosen. But we've known that all along, right?
     
    GTech, Aug 11, 2006 IP
  10. yo-yo

    yo-yo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,619
    Likes Received:
    206
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    185
    #10
    So what has Israel accomplished gtech?

    Since they haven't accomplished stopping the rocket attacks, getting their kidnapped soldiers back, destroying hezbullah or killing it's leader... I'm just curious as to what they have actually accomplished?

    Please do enlighten us :D
     
    yo-yo, Aug 11, 2006 IP
  11. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

    Messages:
    15,836
    Likes Received:
    571
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #11
    Quite a bit actually. Of course, your buds are hiding behind civilian infrastructure to fire the rockets you cheer over, I'd say the death toll is considerably less than it very easily could have been. Unfortunately, your side chose to hide behind women and children and issue fake photos.

    Who is "us?" You mean those that support hezbollah? It's getting harder and harder to hide, isn't it? ;)
     
    GTech, Aug 11, 2006 IP
  12. yo-yo

    yo-yo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,619
    Likes Received:
    206
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    185
    #12
    Yet you can't list a single thing? Surprising. It must be a national security issue :D
     
    yo-yo, Aug 11, 2006 IP
  13. GTech

    GTech Rob Jones for President!

    Messages:
    15,836
    Likes Received:
    571
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #13
    Back in the denial mode again? No problem, I can deal with that too. Who is "us?" Having a hard time hiding your "true" feelings? ;)

    Go ahead, annouce victory for your buds! I'm sitting on pins and needles just waiting for you to do it :D
     
    GTech, Aug 11, 2006 IP
  14. DiscussionPeace

    DiscussionPeace Banned

    Messages:
    69
    Likes Received:
    2
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    #14
    Hisbula means the party of God.
    Oh, my God!

    If they rename themselves to the party of Muhammad, that'll sound much closer to the truth.
    dsp
    God doesn't need killers for sure.
     
    DiscussionPeace, Aug 12, 2006 IP
  15. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

    Messages:
    12,206
    Likes Received:
    601
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    260
    #15
    I agree yo! It seems that this ceasefire is a victory for your buddies! You seem awful thrilled that the terrorists have legitimacy.
     
    lorien1973, Aug 12, 2006 IP
  16. DomainMagnate

    DomainMagnate Illustrious Member

    Messages:
    10,932
    Likes Received:
    1,022
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    455
    #16
    any idea how much are the TOWs in black market?
    I can't seem to find them for a long time already..
     
    DomainMagnate, Aug 12, 2006 IP
  17. yo-yo

    yo-yo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,619
    Likes Received:
    206
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    185
    #17
    The only thing I'm "thrilled" about is that it looks like Israel's massacre of civilians and $2.5 Billion dollars in damages to Lebanon is going to be cut off shortly. :rolleyes: :cool:
     
    yo-yo, Aug 12, 2006 IP
  18. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

    Messages:
    12,206
    Likes Received:
    601
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    260
    #18
    I agree again, yo! You are on a roll. Hez needs time to build hospitals (the deeds you praise them for) on top of ammo dumps again, so in a few months (when it starts up again, inevitably), Israel is blamed again (by people like you) for more deaths.

    Israel capitulated here, for no reason, when it could have finished the job (perhaps) once and for all. Instead, facing political pressure at home, it gave in. Israel isn't getting anything out of this "deal" at all, only Hezz is getting some legitimacy. UN, once again, proves that to play with the big boys, terrorism is the shortest path.

    Next few months, when more missiles reign down on Israel, we all know who is to blame, as usual.
     
    lorien1973, Aug 12, 2006 IP
  19. yo-yo

    yo-yo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,619
    Likes Received:
    206
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    185
    #19
    Isn't the resolution Israel agreed to created by and supported by the US and condaleeeeeza rice? Haahahahahahahahhahhaha!!!!! :D :D :D

    Maybe instead of blaming the UN you can start badmouthing the creators of the resolution and the ones actually forcing Israel to stop (The US) ;)
     
    yo-yo, Aug 12, 2006 IP
  20. lorien1973

    lorien1973 Notable Member

    Messages:
    12,206
    Likes Received:
    601
    Best Answers:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    260
    #20
    See, you are right again, yo! You are awesome today.

    The US should have definitely let Israel continue this offensive and not even sit down to talk cease-fire, but as usual, political pressure makes things like this a non-reality in today's world. Peace (no matter the cost) seems more important than solving issues.
     
    lorien1973, Aug 12, 2006 IP